See You On The Other Side
Meet Leah and Christine. Busy moms and entrepreneurs just trying to balance this crazy thing called life. But we don't do surface, and we're definitely not your typical momtrepreneurs...so let's go a little deeper. Empaths, traumatic childhoods, generational trauma, people pleasers, toxic relationship patterns, anxiety, depression, feeling stuck and desperately seeking peace and happiness. And then we fell into the world of magic mushrooms and psychedelics. The catalyst that helped us break out of our comfort zones and took us DEEP into our personal healing journeys. We'll take you behind the scenes as we learn more about the holistic side of healing and all the amazing people we plan on meeting along the way. Join us as we share the good, the bad, and the ugly side of healing. With and without psychedelics. We hope to see you on the other side! Note: We are not professionals and we do not advise the use of illegal substances. For more about psychedelic support or clinical trials in your area, visit https://psychedelic.support/
See You On The Other Side
92 | Healing Through German New Medicine (with Abigail Puccioni)
Can emotional conflicts and unresolved trauma be the true culprits behind your physical health issues? Join us in conversation with Abigail Puccioni, a former integrative health practitioner turned German New Medicine educator and coach, as we explore the paradigm-shifting world of German New Medicine (GNM). Founded by Dr. Ryke Geerd Hamer, GNM offers a unique perspective on health, viewing symptoms not as malfunctions but as biological adaptations to resolved conflicts. Abigail shares her journey from battling chronic health issues and navigating conventional and holistic practices to finding empowerment through GNM. This episode promises to challenge your understanding of disease and inspire you to see symptoms through a more empowering lens.
In this thought-provoking discussion, we delve into the intricate interplay between trauma, the psyche, and physical health. Abigail explains Dr. Hamer's research, which links conflict shocks to biological adaptations visible in brain scans, revealing how emotional conflicts manifest in the body as specific diseases or symptoms like migraines or cancer. By understanding these connections, Abigail highlights how resolving these conflicts can lead to healing phases. This conversation underscores the holistic connection between mind and body, emphasizing the role of emotional well-being in physical health and how maintaining an open mind is key to reclaiming one's health.
Abigail shares personal anecdotes and reflections on her journey, discussing the frustration of conflicting health advice and the struggle with persistent symptoms. We explore how embracing GNM provided her with new insights and empowerment, ultimately transforming her approach to health and well-being. Whether you're disillusioned with conventional and holistic practices or seeking a deeper understanding of the mind-body connection, this episode offers valuable insights and inspiration for your health journey.
Connect with Abigail here: https://abigailpuccioni.com/
And here: https://www.instagram.com/ajpuccioni
Check out Freedom From Fear podcast: https://abigailpuccioni.com/podcast
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Welcome everyone to another episode of See you on the Other Side. It's been a minute. I am incredibly excited for this interview Today. We have Abigail Piccioni with us. She is a former integrative health practitioner and co-host here. You are so welcome. So, um, okay, you want me to say it? Go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 3:In true Leah fashion, the rabbit holes I go down. Um, someone in a previous episode not even in the episode, I think it was just in conversation after we interviewed her was like oh yeah, my sister's into this, like German new medicine stuff. And I'm immediately were like wait, what, what are you talking about? And then she sent us a link to your podcast and I binged like three episodes like in a day and was fascinated and I'm like texting Christine like Holy shit, my migraines and, oh my God, your UTIs and whole. Oh my God.
Speaker 3:Like this is like insane to me. I want to know more. And so I guess that's where we are right now. Like we're very green, new to German new medicine and we're into a lot of weird stuff. I'm not calling it weird by any means, but like if this is something that we had never heard of, I would bet most of our listeners are similar. So in that sense, like this episode, I kind of want to do a easy beginner like what is German new medicine and how can we utilize this in our journey to health?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely so.
Speaker 2:Gnm or German new medicine, it's a completely different way of understanding health in the body. So we have the conventional medicine paradigm in which most of us were raised I'm assuming and then we have the holistic health paradigm which, as we'll get into in a moment, they're actually a lot more similar than you might think, even though they appear to be radically different. And there definitely are differences, but it's still. Both of those paradigms are ultimately based in fear. And so with the German new medicine paradigm and that's the way I like to describe it is as a paradigm, because it's not a modality. It's not like any of the different modalities that you might find within the holistic realm or even within the mind body realm. It's not something that you practice or that you do to heal. You know. It's not like Reiki or something right. It's not, yeah, it's not a practice, it's not a modality. It really is a lens through which you see the world around you, particularly a lens through which you view health and symptoms. So in German new medicine, the most fundamental thing to grasp is that the vast majority of the time because there are certain symptoms that can come before we've resolved a conflict However, the vast majority of symptoms are going to be after. You've already gone into resolution and this I guess I should probably back up and go into like, what is a conflict? But really it's this reframe of understanding symptoms as a good thing or not even good or bad. It's more just understanding the biological reality of how and why our body's adapting. And so this is when, uh, you know we are and how we understand what is actually going on in our body. What is the true root cause? Because, of course, in the conventional medicine paradigm I actually find that it's quite refreshing because they are pretty honest about this they are like, well, we really don't know. You know why, why you have this disease, we have different risk factors, but we don't know what actually causes it. And then, in the holistic realm, I find it can often be like a wolf in sheep's clothing kind of situation, because often they are so certain that, well, we do know what the root cause is. Oh, it's mold toxicity, right.
Speaker 2:And so with German New Medicine, we question things even deeper and we're like, okay, well, does this? And this is why I encourage everyone to do is to come into this with an open mind and questioning everything, including what I say, including the GNM paradigm. I'm definitely open to the possibility that, um, you know that there's more to research and more to explore, even um, outside of GNM, you know, with the power of the mind and consciousness and all these things, and so I think that I'd never like to put a limit on what the body can do, but just understanding this reframe of like, oh, it actually makes perfect sense why you have that symptom or, as I prefer to say, adaptation, given a conflict that you went through. So, in German, new Medicine and the guy that founded this, you know, or codified this way of thinking about the body, this framework, although I would really say that this is pretty, it has a lot in common with different ancient ways of thinking about health, ancient ways of thinking about health. I like to say that this body of knowledge is not really new, it's just newly discovered. This is the primal, ancient wisdom of how and why our bodies adapt, and it makes a lot of sense when you think about it and when you question why.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, going back to the like, always questioning why, questioning what I say, questioning what Dr Homer found, you know, and he's the guy that kind of codified this and he discovered it through. Um, he was a conventional doctor, he, uh, but actually both him and his wife were conventional MDs and they went through a really tragic experience of losing their son when he was, I believe, 19 years old. He it was this tragic accident where he was shot and ended up dying from the. You know the injuries and had several surgeries trying to save him and he ended up passing away. And it was actually someone who was quite famous who accidentally shot him. It's this whole actually there's a docu-series on Netflix if you want to see the whole, uh, how it all unfolded. Uh, so, yeah, it's called the King, who never was, and it's basically like a member of the Italian royalty and this is who.
Speaker 2:Anyway, that it's not important to get into that.
Speaker 2:But of course, keep in mind that the docu-series paints Dr Hammer in a very negative light, like he's this crazy conspiracy theorist guy, you know. And when you understand a little bit more about the implications of what it means to see the world through this lens, to live from a place of embodying the GNM paradigm, you realize how mainstream medicine, even holistic medicine, is very threatened by this. Because ultimately, if you think about what makes money, it's fear. Fear is what sells Keeping people reliant on you. As far as the system, keeping people reliant on the powers that be, that is usually in the best interest of conventional medicine. And then if you look at how much money is being made in the field of holistic health and holistic medicine, you start to understand why people would be motivated to spew some really nasty rumors and say hateful things about you. Know the guy, the guy who codified this and and you know, of course, say negative things about you. Know his crazy discoveries, whatever. So I won't really get into that, but let's go back and just talk about what it?
Speaker 2:yeah, binge it, it's like a three part docu-series. Um yeah, it's very fascinating, so that kind of gives you the backstory. Anyway, he found that he well, rather, he was diagnosed with testicular cancer a few months after losing his son, and he was a very healthy guy, him and his wife were both very fit, healthy, all the things. And he was like, wait, a minute, like this does not add up, like this does not make sense to me. And he had this suspicion that the traumatic loss of his son was related to the development of the testicular cancer. So he started volunteering in local oncology units because he had already made a pretty good amount of money through these different patents he had developed for surgical tools. So he volunteered a lot in oncology units and he went around conducting his own research and he went around to all the guys that had testicular cancer and he started asking them, okay, like what you know, looking at the timeline of their, you know when they got diagnosed, and then he would look at their brain CTs. And I won't go too much into this. But basically he found what in the GNM world we call it a Hammer focus is a nod to Dr Homer, but it's basically a lesion on a brain CT scan and he found that every single guy who had testicular cancer had a lesion in the same exact brain relay, in the same spot on the CT scan.
Speaker 2:And in conventional medicine they describe these lesions as artifacts, which they're kind of like oh, they're just random, like errors in the imaging. You know, they're just, they're just random. And I guess he like wrote to Siemens, the, the company that produces these imaging, um the imaging equipment, and they were like no, we looked into it, those aren't. We don't know what they are, but they're not just like artifacts, like they. There is something to this and so anyway it's.
Speaker 2:It does get like really political, because he went and took his research to the university from where he was from, back in Germany, and they, like I said very if you look at the motivations and the political stuff going on um, he wanted his research to be done on an even larger scale and they kept saying no, no, like they did not, they did not want this to come out. So anyway, he did all this research by himself and like a few colleagues, and over the course of his life he did I think it was like over 40,000 case studies. So at first he thought that this applied just to cancer, and then, through more research, he realized that, oh, this actually applies to every single symptom or what we know is disease in the body.
Speaker 2:So, and of course, there are a few exceptions, like um injury, uh, you know, if you fall off the roof and break your arm or uh poisoning like, yeah, if you ingest rat poison or severe malnutrition, if you're, you know, haven't eaten in, like you know, two weeks or something, you're going to have issues. So there are, of course, some exceptions, but the vast majority of what we would know as symptoms and disease, uh, are initiated from what and this is what he found to be true, um, and confirmed with the CT scans, at least on the brain level that, okay, there's a brain relay, that is, you know, everyone that has this diagnosis has the same lesion in the brain. He started with testicular cancer patients and then moved on to the ladies with ovarian cancer, which is like the equivalent, and all of them that he interviewed, they had all suffered a very traumatic, profound loss, conflict, so, yeah, a loss of someone that they loved, and it had happened within a certain timeframe that lined up with their diagnosis and symptoms and all these things. So, you know, he was a, he was a visionary, he questioned everything, he wanted to know why. He was not happy with the answers that they currently had available to explain things and the conventional medical model. So he was definitely of that mindset, always wanting to know why and go deeper.
Speaker 2:And so I think, though, that in conventional medicine. Like people know this, they know that trauma relates to you, know leads to bad stuff in the body. I think everyone can agree on that. Um, I mean, even conventional research would back this up. But what he found was that specific types of traumatic experiences and the way that you perceive that and the way that your psyche interprets it, will lead to very specific adaptations in the body. And so German new medicine is essentially understanding the map of our adaptations, the map of what's going on in the body, and it gets extremely specific.
Speaker 2:And for me, as someone who transitioned from the holistic health realm and then into more of the mind body space, and I was questioning things and I'm like okay, like yeah, it makes sense, though, okay, trauma, I don't know, bad emotions get stuck in the body. But then I started thinking about it and I'm like I don't know, do I really believe that? Like, oh, this anger from some experience I had is like trapped in my liver, like I just I didn't understand how, when different people experience traumatic things say, you know, losing someone that they love or going through a breakup or you know any any sort of experience that would catch you off guard kind of thing why does one person end up with I don't know ovarian cancer and another person ends up with breast cancer and another person ends up with chronic skin issues and another person with no symptoms at all? Like what can explain that? And that's exactly what Dr Homer found through his research the impact of the psyche and how we perceive the world around us, and how that sets up to experience conflicts in specific ways that will lead to predictable adaptations that follow a predictable pattern.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I'll take a break. I'm talking, let me go.
Speaker 3:No, that was very very informative, I guess in the simplest way possible. After I finished your first few episodes, I started like Googling I guess I wouldn't say Googling. There's like a chart right, like a GNM chart, where you can search a symptom and it'll tell you what conflict there is. It's been a few months since I've done this, so I can't remember exactly what it looked like. Okay so, but one of the things I searched was I used to have chronic migraines, like back in 2020, I was literally on a fast track to getting um a monthly shot.
Speaker 3:Um, I had tried medication after medication and then that's kind of when my healing journey began and I never went back to my neurologist to figure out what medicine to be on, because the migraine started to like dissipate and then a year later my husband got sober and then that kind of helped like not a lot of migraines anymore. So like there's all this. So, anyway, I'm saying that because when I found the correlation between like migraines, german new medicine and the conflict involved, it was like something similar to um. You would know I would have to Google it, but can you tell me what like the migraine conflict would would be?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so there are actually a few different possibilities for migraines, because and this is what Dr Homer found in um, this might get a little too complex, so I'm going to try to break this down as simple as possible. But it, when we resolve a conflict and we go into the healing phase, that lesion on the brain level, the, the way that the neuralgia um adapt in the brain, uh, they, it has to go through this um process of squeezing out the edema. And so when we deal with, let's just say, headaches in general, that's often coming from really any conflict that is in a healing phase. Because when and I guess I didn't touch on this quite yet, but when we experience a conflict shock that catches us off guard, we felt emotionally isolated in that moment and it's emotionally distressing, it's not like a good surprise. So when a conflict event meets those three criteria, that's what triggers a biological adaptation. Now, what type of biological adaptation that's triggered, and which tissue layers affected, which organs affected, that's going to be determined by how your psyche perceived that event. So, anyway, I, and then going into the first biological law though, the psyche, brain, organ connection. So when we experienced that conflict shock triggers an adaptation, um, and of course, the way we perceived it will, you know, translate into the specific type of adaptation and therefore what symptoms we'll have when we resolve it. Um, that conflict impacts the brain level, which is visible on those CT scans, um the lesion and the brain level uh, which will be in the brain relay, that's related to the specific organ uh which it's affecting. And then you have the organ level, so that's the, you know where the, the symptom and the healing phase is going to physically manifest Uh, and then of course, the psyche level.
Speaker 2:And so in the active conflict phase we have that compulsive thinking. You know, if you've ever felt and this is what a lot of people um might associate with just feeling really stressed, and of course they could just be stressed Um, generic stress does not necessarily translate into a biological adaptation. It has to meet those three criteria of getting caught off guard emotionally isolated, emotionally distressing. So the the way that I can best describe this as if you've had like a lot, like way too much caffeine and you feel jittery and shaky and you're like thoughts are racing. That's when you're in a very sympathetic, dominant state. That's when you're in a state of what we would call conflict activity and your psyche is compulsively thinking, trying to find a solution to the problem. Again, this is very biological. It's not emotional, it's not psychological I like to use the term psychobiological but fundamentally this is all about how our most primal selves, our subconscious, our animal body, if you will, how we're perceiving the world around us and adapting in a very biologically sensical way.
Speaker 2:So, going back to your question about, let's just say, headaches for a moment, that would be evidence of a brain level adaptation, and so we would have to look at what other symptoms you were experiencing. That would maybe give us a clue as to which program you were actually running. So headaches can be a bit of a generic healing phase symptom.
Speaker 2:However, with migraines, like your classic migraine, usually that's from the frontal fear conflict, so in this affects the pharyngeal ducts and anyway, I won't get too far into that adaptation. But it's this, this fear, something that's um, that's about to happen, like a classic example would be if you're in a car and you're about to see, um, like you see a front on collision coming towards you and you you can't do anything to stop it in that moment and you're like, oh my gosh, there there's this scary thing coming right towards me and I I'm kind of helpless, you know I can't, I can't do anything about it. So when you feel that there's this scary situation that you're kind of powerless to change, that would be a good explanation for what that conflict would be. And that's in my practice. That's the most common one that I see with classic migraines.
Speaker 3:That makes so much sense.
Speaker 1:Like I lived in a state of like fight or flight for like so long so and I feel like a lot of us do, like a lot of us are in a sympathetic state for, like the majority of our time, like it's like it's conscious work to get into a parasympathetic state.
Speaker 1:So like for me, um, I started to get utis and anytime I would go state. So like for me, um, I started to get UTIs and anytime I would go to a doctor it would just be like okay, take this antibiotic, okay, take this antibiotic. And then it got to a point where and I know I've talked about this a lot on the podcast where it was like then they would be six, six weeks later than I would get another one, and then four weeks, and then, you know, two weeks, and then it was days. And then, um, because of that, I ended up and then I started to get rashes and then, because of that, I ended up closing my business and then they got better. And then I connected, um, reconnected with Leah, and then I got into plant medicine and started to heal some trauma and then they got better.
Speaker 1:Um, I don't know if you can elaborate more about like UTIs and kind of that background, but it I didn't. I never really did anything with it, cause, like Leah, it's just like I started to heal. So then they started to go away.
Speaker 2:Right, so are. Are you comfortable if I ask you a question?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, uh, with the UTIs. Uh, who who was or who are? Yeah, how are your boundaries being crossed? How are your boundaries being violated?
Speaker 1:What boundaries? Um, I didn't have any. I literally didn't have any. And I um owned a gym and during a pandemic, and and I really, I really struggled with with, uh, balancing work life and home life, and um got myself into a little bit of of trouble where, like I, I struggled to separate, um you know, whether it be employees, clients and and yeah, no, it was terrible.
Speaker 3:What boundaries is literally the exact answer. I was like that one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so if you, if you think about it, and I want to touch on the biological purpose behind every adaptation, and this will not make sense in our modern culture or in our modern, um, you know, in our uh, conscious awareness, okay, but think about, you know, a dog that goes on a walk and it pees a million times to mark its spot everywhere. Uh, so there's this primal association with, with peeing to mark your spot, or think about the, the terminology, like a pissing match, you know. So when we have, um, an adaptation in the bladder mucosa, uh, which is in the ectoderm group, which is so the, basically Dr Hammer, um, he studied embryology and that was really what laid the foundation for his findings with GNM. So in the science of embryology, this all has to do with how we develop as humans and different tissue layers, and so with this and it's the red group on my chart here, the, the ectoderm, and so it follows a specific and predictable pattern of adaptation.
Speaker 2:So in the conflict, active phase, and for you, you were dealing with a hanging healing, because this would come and go, come and go, so you were not finishing out the healing phase, because you kept getting re-triggered, um, and we call that stepping on a track, and so then the adaptation just starts back up again, so you're losing cells. There is cell ulceration in the bladder mucosa, and the very primal purpose behind that is to actually widen um the you know the like bladder so that you can get more urine out to better mark your territory.
Speaker 1:Holy it like it makes so much sense. It really does, and I've never had it explained to me like that. But like I, I felt constantly like I was suffocating and yeah, wow.
Speaker 3:Okay, that's like way better than what I just googled and found. That's like.
Speaker 2:That's why, hearing it from you, your explanation really hits home for, yeah, the both of us well, you know, I think it's just experience and working with a lot of women who have had this, and you know you can use the index on learninggnmcom, google it, whatever but just seeing like, oh, that's this type of conflict, that's not really going to bring it to life, that's not understanding the fullness of that adaptation and the specific nuances of it and how everyone experiences different flavors of that conflict, and so it's something that people don't often understand and they get really confused when they think about the territorial conflicts, because they are perceived differently by men and women.
Speaker 2:So for a man, uh, just biologically speaking, his territory is a bit more outer, okay, whereas for a female, you know, it's like his and this is true for females too, but it's it's more his workplace way of making money, his family, his, you know, his wife, his kids, like it's a bit more outer, whereas for a woman it's more inward, uh, her inner boundaries, it's about her sexuality, it's about her, uh, of course, about her, you know, partner, romantic partner and her children. Um, and it can definitely about her, you know, partner, romantic partner and her children, and it can definitely be about you know your workplace too, but it's just going to have different nuances between you know, men and women, but for women, the way that they usually experience this conflict, I find that it's either about their partner or about any other area of their life in which they feel that their inner boundaries are being violated.
Speaker 3:That's interesting, especially like we've talked about like the hero's journey, the heroine's journey and the hero's journey, and how, like the hero's journey is up and out and the heroine's journey is in, in, and like it just seems to be this like correlation between every conversation we have, no matter what the modality is. Women and men are just like biologically and psychologically so different, but the women it always seems to be inward, like all of it, internal healing, and like we're not externally focused or externally driven as men are. So that's wild.
Speaker 1:Wow. So do you? Do you have like a personal story or experience that kind of led you into this approach?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a good question. So I think the way that I found GNM and got really interested into GNM was because I became so disillusioned by the holistic health space. I well, of course, I grew up in the conventional medicine paradigm. My dad's a conventional doctor. I I had a lot of different, mysterious, you know, chronic health issues, different diagnoses. I mean, I was diagnosed with osteoporosis at a very young age, degenerative disc disease, really severe back pain since I was like 16. Just a lot going on Went through a phase where a lot of like mysterious infections popping up and they didn't know, like how to diagnose it. And then I was diagnosed with a connective tissue genetic disorder, or you know, so-called genetic disorder, right, and? And so they attributed all my symptoms to this, to this label, this diagnosis of Ehlers-Danlos syndrome. And the funny thing is I could probably do a genetic test today and would still technically have that, but I don't have any of those symptoms that they associated with it.
Speaker 2:So then you start to think like, okay, do I mean, do they really know what they're talking about or are they just kind of slapping on a label? Um, you know. And then you look at, okay, the, the. You know how insurance is involved in this. And you know the I mean the motivation behind even giving a diagnosis, just all of this that you know the I mean the motivation behind even giving a diagnosis, just all of this that you know I won't get into. But, um, they are correct in that. Yes, okay, this is what we will call this group of symptoms, or this is what we will call this. You know, um, you know result on a lab or something, but who's determining what's normal? You know who's determining those ranges? Who's assigning the labels to these groups of symptoms? So, anyway, I went through that and just did not get any help from the conventional realm, which I think a lot of people probably resonate with, that do find their way into the holistic realm. And so, in that way, I think it was really good for me because it gave me a lot of hope and kind of a way of taking my power back, like I'm going to figure out how to heal myself.
Speaker 2:So I jumped right in and did a um, I actually dropped out of grad school. I was in grad school for forensic psychology and I dropped out to pursue my integrative health practitioner training, and so I, you know, did functional medicine lab testing with clients. I did the protocols, the supplements, the detoxes, all of that and over time, you know, some would get results, some wouldn't. And I'm like, hmm, I don't, I don't like the way that that's working in my brain, like I, I don't like when someone, you know cause the way that I think is very analytical, and when someone, when I have their lab in front of me and I'm, you know, analyzing it and okay, this is the protocol, you need to go on, because we got to fix your gut dysbiosis, we have to, you know, get all of the, the evil, toxic mold out of your body. You know we have to remove the parasites, like whatever the narrative is, which, by the way, is based in fear that, oh, something is going wrong and we need to fix it. So, you know, I'm working with clients in this capacity and I would do all the right things, protocol wise, you know, we would, and they would follow the instructions and some would get better and some wouldn't. And I'm like what, what is going on here? Like that bothered my brain. You know, having exceptions to the rule I do not like. So that's when I started looking into the mind, body, realm, uh, and so I, you know was. And I did have some success personally, by the way, with the, the, you know supplements and all the all that stuff, but it never lasted, or then I'd get a new symptom Like it was not.
Speaker 2:After doing all the work that I did and living a perfectly clean life you know eating organic everything, the perfect gluten-free, dairy-free diet, you know air filters in every room, whole house water filters after doing all the things, I was like I should be doing a lot better than I am, like I'm a little better, but is that? Does this make sense? And then I also started questioning the like ethics behind it. Do I feel good about asking someone to go on like a $500 a month protocol? Like, is that really necessary in order to live a healthy life? Like, are we, are we all that toxic? And then I'm thinking, well, I know people that eat really crappy diets and that are exposed to all the toxins and they're actually pretty healthy. And so I'm like there's something I'm missing here. So I actually got so frustrated that I just closed down my practice and I'm like I need to do some inner work and find answers.
Speaker 2:So I stopped coaching for over a year, I'd say, and I really dove into the mind-body realm, the work of Nicole Sachs, I think. She wrote a book, the Cure for Chronic Pain or something, and it was this very generic, surface level idea that, oh, chronic pain comes from like repressed emotions, and I was like, huh, like that, that makes sense. And so I just kind of, you know, I was like diving into, uh, this a little more and just in the mind body realm, you know, I I tried all the, the Reiki, the emotion code stuff, the, you know, homeopathy, I mean, you know all the kind of different, yeah, more mind-body things, and I still there was still like something missing. I'm like this generically makes sense, but there's a lot of questions I have that are unanswered. And then I think it was through a podcast or something on Instagram, I forget exactly, but I came across I don't know if it was Freya Kellett or Dr Melissa Sell, and they had, you know, they were talking about GNM and I was like what is this Like hold up, like, and I I started looking into it and it was just this immediate, like resonance and this light bulb moment of just everything falling into place. It was like, oh my gosh, like I think, I think I just got chills and I was like this is it? Like this explains all my questions. That's just, it makes so much sense and I was like where has this been my whole my whole life?
Speaker 2:And then just that, that transition process of learning the knowledge, embodying the paradigm, taking back ownership of my health, like, and I'm I'm. This is not medical advice or anything, but I no longer engage with the medical system at all. You know, I don't go get checks, uh, I don't do anything preventative health, because I understand there is nothing like symptoms and disease. It's not something bad that like needs to be prevented. I understand the role of the psyche and my perception in what I experience and so now, living out this paradigm, it's just, it's a place of so much more peace than than fear, knowing that I don't need to go check to like, oh, is my body malfunctioning? Oh, do I have some scary, you know disease, or do I need a diagnosis? Or you know, oh, do I need, you know the, the doctor, to kind of play the role of the savior? Like, oh, to tell me what to do and to save me. Like I just I don't subscribe to that anymore and it's just been so, so freeing.
Speaker 1:I think Christine's mind is like a little hurting Are, you are you okay, yeah, and I'm like, I'm like flabbergasted right now. So you mentioned you brought up dysbiosis. Okay, so I also went the conventional medical route. I closed my business. Then I started seeing going the more holistic route and when I'm with the more holistic route and there's so much confusing information because it's like so much, there's so much about hormones and your gut and like liver and yes and so with their recommendations, um, well, one I found out, you know, I had high cortisol dysbiosis, um, candida, sibo. They thought I had an autoimmune disease, gluten allergy, a gluten allergy. Um, I started eating gluten-free, I started eating dairy-free, I prioritized sleep. I stopped doing high intensity workouts and went to like Pilates and yoga. Um, and I Leah can attest to this I will go. I would go out with friends and they're eating a burger and fries and I'm eating salmon and vegetables and eat, you know, doing the sauna so many times.
Speaker 1:You did not cheat Like you would, not even like stray from your protocol Right and I've been very diligent about it for the last two years Um, actually probably the last three years and I have seen very little progress and it has kind of messed with my psyche because it has, it feels, very defeating Cause it's like you see all these things online, like you know high cortisol, you know do yoga instead of like doing a bootcamp and and so I'm like I feel like I have done all of these things and like I still don't feel great and taken all of these supplements and like I still feel, like I have issues, I still feel bloated, I still feel, you know, so it for it, it's a lot of information, and then it can be very defeating when you do that work and you don't feel like it's paying off.
Speaker 1:And then it's like so then you go back to like a doctor and it's like, well, it's this and it's this, and, and so it's like when does it? When does it end, you know? Or when am I going to like maybe see some fruits of my labor or just feel better? Um, and so I don't know what your thoughts and opinions are about that, because it's, it's just, it's so much, it's a lot. So when you were saying all this stuff, I'm like, oh my God.
Speaker 3:I feel more like you, abigail, where I'm like I, you know, we started seeing a functional nutritionist for the first time last year and have since, like I, have felt better and I have felt, you know, but I also like when my results came back. It wasn't near as bad as yours, I hate to say it like that but you know, I don't have high cortisol and I didn't have gluten and or dysbiosis and you know.
Speaker 3:so, like for me, I've kind of I don't want to say I've subscribed to it, but like I've found something that works and I stick with it and it, and I'm like you know, I stray from it sometimes and I still feel okay, so it doesn't bother me as much. But yeah, with you, I've noticed like you're reaching and, reaching and reaching and there's still nothing. So what you're saying is we need to book an appointment, or you need to book an appointment with Abigail.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because how do you? So you do this for a living, now which I have questions, we'll get there. Um, what would you call yourself? Like are you, are you a coach in this space? Like are you a German new medicine? Um guide? Um, what? What do you do exactly? How do you help people with? Through understanding this modality? Yeah, so.
Speaker 2:I actually don't really use the word coach so much anymore. I'm not really like, I'm not part of help helping someone heal or, you know, resolve their conflicts. I primarily focus on teaching them about the true root cause of their symptom what, what like, what their symptom is from a German new medicine perspective. So I consider myself a GNM educator. So that is, you know, that's what I do. I just I don't tell anyone what to do about their health. You know, I'm not certainly not anti-conventional medicine.
Speaker 2:I think some people, when we have an adaptation that has you've been adapting for a long amount of time and it's a really intense conflict, there are programs that you would not survive the healing phase without medical intervention. So I want to make that really clear. Our bodies, you know this, this is not good or bad, this is just, it's biology. This is how we're adapting and certain adaptations you will, you, you could need a surgery. You know, or you know, we can't always um, continue to live in this very unbiological world and continue to live with you know, the amount that we heap on our plates, so to speak, and you know the the body will pay a price for that right, like, we will deal with adaptations and that's normal. And, um, I also like to approach the topic of conflict shocks Like they're not. They're not bad, they're not a sign that you're doing something wrong. It's just giving you information about oh, okay, I have this symptom. Oh, it's chronic. Okay, what is this telling me about the way that I'm viewing the world around me, and how would I have to shift my perception to no longer even be eligible for that type of conflict? So and this is where you know I mean talk about things that get passed down in the family. I mean our perceptions get passed down. You know the way that you, when you grow up and you hear all your family talking around the dinner table and they're complaining about the aches and pains and oh, just, life is hard, and you know everyone's out to get you, or I mean the government's out to get you, or big farm is out to get you. I mean you know, listen to the narrative. How do your family members talk, how do your friends talk, what? How do you talk? You know, like I can tell a lot about what program someone's running just by listening to the way that they talk.
Speaker 2:So someone that's maybe dealing with certain digestive symptoms they might use the word, I feel, really I feel stuck. You know, like things, things aren't moving in my life the way that I want to. You know, you, you hear how that language is similar to, like the, the flavor of constipation, even that like, oh, like, you know there's this stuckness. Or you know there's this thing that I can't digest, I can't accept it, you know, I can't move it through my system or I can't excrete it Right, and so if you pay attention to the language, it can be very insightful.
Speaker 2:And so I think, you know, paying attention to what you know, based on the family you grew up in, the culture you were raised in, school friends, I mean everything, the media, everything is shaping our perception, and you mentioned, like psychedelics. This is one reason why a lot of people have these really incredible healing experiences after using certain substances like this. It's because it alters their perception. And when their perception is altered to the point where they are no longer eligible for that type of conflict, that's no longer um a big deal in their psyche. So that can um be really helpful for certain people that are feeling, you know, stuck with their symptoms.
Speaker 2:Um, however, uh also have to be careful that it doesn't resolve something too quickly that maybe should not have been resolved that quickly, and then you can have a really intense healing phase. Um, you know and and at times you know, could potentially be fatal, right, like. So I'm not saying that that's the vast majority of the time, but there are these, you know, we, we like to warn people to not resolve things too quickly. Um, you know, more of like a slow downgrading uh process, uh, especially if it's been something that's been a really intense conflict for a really long time. Um, but yeah, I. So what? What direction do you want to go in now?
Speaker 1:Cause you brought up so much stuff and I'm like well, I'm kind of curious of like what your thoughts are about, kind of everything that I've mentioned, with just the road that I've gone down and the challenges that I face, like with my hormones and my gut and and I guess I will fully admit, like trying to like reach for all of these things that, um, you know people are like, well, you should do this and you should take this supplement, and you, um, you know people are like, well, you should do this and you should take this supplement and you should. You know you should do yoga instead of lift and you should do this and and and still feeling like it's it's maybe helped a little bit but, you know, still having that feeling where it just it just feels overwhelming and defeating, where it just it just feels overwhelming and defeating.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's always about the your relationship to the thing and not the thing itself. So it's not whether, um, a certain supplement or protocol or whatever, or practitioner even. It's not about if that thing is like right or you know in and of itself. It's rather what is your relationship to it? Why are you taking it? Why are you using it? Is it because, oh, I'm terrified that if I don't do exactly what they told me to with this protocol, that I'm never going to get better? Is that the narrative? Do you believe that your body's broken, that it needs to be cleansed of these things?
Speaker 2:I think that people who approach, let's say, a diet or protocol or anything like that, from a place of excitement and opportunity and like, oh, this feels really good, this feels really supportive, like I feel good when I eat these foods, I really love my coach, I really love this community that I'm in and that feels really supportive to me, notice how that's a completely different vibe than like I need to find this, this coach that's going to help me heal, and I need to do this protocol, and like, oh no, if this practitioner can't help me, then who will? Oh, now I need to go see another specialist. Like you know, there there's this energetic difference between those two approaches, which is why some people actually know, whether it's, I don't know, raw veganism or paleo or I mean whatever it is. You see people that have these crazy success stories and it's often because of their mindset going into it, their intention behind it, um, approaching it in a way that's not out of fear, Um, so you know, like, oh, I'm doing something nice for myself, or even I'm investing in myself, right, so I'm worthy of being invested in. I'm, you know, starting this workout program cause I want to feel stronger in my body and I'm getting these results that then actually make me feel stronger when I can, you know, go from a 10 pound weight to a 20 pound weight, that can actually resolve a self-devaluation conflict. So, of course, people can have success through virtually any modality, but it's all about the perception shift that's behind using that thing or changing that diet, because and this is the thing with GNM, um, or rather with other ways of approaching health and healing like, oh, this is your problem and this is the thing with GNM, um, or rather with other ways of approaching health and healing like, oh, this is your problem. No, this is your problem.
Speaker 2:Say gut dysbiosis. Okay, you, you do have gut dysbiosis. No, no one's questioning that. Like, that lab result is correct and I can tell you I could probably do a lab test on anyone on the street and they probably have gut dysbiosis. Um, whether they had symptoms or not.
Speaker 2:You know, because we do have bacteria and this is an important part of the um fourth biological law, which is that we microbes are our friends, they're our helpers. So when we have a lot of bacteria on the site, or fungi, or you know that mycobacteria like TB or something, when we have these microbes on the site, that's not evidence of something going wrong. That's evidence of your body being in a repair phase, in which those are the construction workers that are repairing the tissue back to normal. Those are the construction workers that are repairing the tissue back to normal. So when we get rid of the bacteria and we, you know, kill it, whether it's a, you know, natural antibacterial or actual, you know antibiotics or something, of course you're going to feel better because it's putting your body back in a simulated conflict, active phase, and that has to do with how it's actually shifting your perception through um biochemical changes. So when we have that going on, of course you're, you're going to be more in that simulated conflict active state, so you are not going to have the symptoms, or at least not as intense. Um, but a lot of times what you see in this is antibiotic resistance, right, when you're constantly pulling your body out of that healing phase, at some point your body's going to be like I have to start trying to prepare this tissue, like I can't, I can't pause this anymore, you know, because you're constantly going back and forth between active conflict, healing, and so it's like on off, on off with the cellular adaptation that's occurring. So if you had, let's say, with an endoderm program, like an indigestible morsel conflict, that would lead to most gut issues.
Speaker 2:I would say we have cell growth in the active conflict and then, once we resolve, go in the healing phase. We have the mycobacteria and you know, fungal. We have the mycobacteria on the site doing that breakdown process. So they are the little, you know, construction workers that are repairing that cell growth. Or you know we could call this a tumor, which could be diagnosed as such if it's caught. You know, if there's enough adaptation that continues on long enough. But I just like to call it cell growth. You know, so we have this cell buildup and those little microbes are doing the work to break that down and in that phase you will have symptoms, of course, that are not so fun. So you know, that's one way of understanding.
Speaker 2:Okay, why is there gut dysbiosis? And it makes total sense. Um, and so you know, that's why you, you would likely feel better, but it's not going to stop that program from running until you resolve the conflict. And when you're in that hanging, healing and the way that I like to describe it is, um, like if you have a stab wound and you know, your body's naturally going to try to close up that skin, start to heal it. But if you take a little knife and you're just kind of re-stab yourself every day and reopen the wound, you're, you're never your. Your body's constantly going to be adapting. It's going to be that redness, the swelling, the pain, the inflammation. So it's always going to be moving back towards the repair process. But then it's like Ooh, I just stepped on a track or trigger, right. So I encountered a trigger in which my psyche was it's like this alarm bell going off like warning, warning.
Speaker 2:Last time you encountered this thing, which could be food, a person, a thought, an emotion, it could be a smell, it could be literally anything. Last time we encountered this thing like the gluten particle is a great example of this, which is, I mean, it's a very common food. It gets, it gets tracked in for a lot of people. So when we have that particle that we encounter, we get thrown back into the active conflicts and our body starts adapting again and then we chill out about it. So then we go into resolution again.
Speaker 2:It's the cyclical process, and so the gluten is. It's not like just I guess I'm trying to say it's not just psychological, like it's not just in your head, like it is a very real track, like your body actually is reacting to that particle, even if you are not aware that you consumed it. And that's what happens with, um, you know, gluten exposure. When people who who have this sensitivity or allergy go into a restaurant and they assume it's gluten-free, and if they have a program running with enough conflict load where it's a very severe adaptation, when they encounter that particle, they don't need to be consciously aware that they did, but subconsciously their body recognizes that particle. That's like danger ahead.
Speaker 3:I feel like all this tracks.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, and even a lot of what you said about like how you grew up and and I grew up in what I would maybe describe as a home with some rigidity to it, and so I learned those behaviors of being very rigid on my body and like the way I trained and in sports. So and it's almost like I still have that rigidity when it comes to like food and and and working out and just that in general and my last mushroom journey. And then I just recently did a human design reading and both of those themes. The message was, instead of focusing on doing, learning to be, and then also working on my enoughness, doing less, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's beautiful. I love how many synchronicities there are with so many things like human design, for example.
Speaker 1:You coming on a day and kind of having kind of the same message. I'm like, okay, I get it.
Speaker 3:What I sent you this morning that like don't chase attract, and that's been a really hard lesson for you. But I'm seeing the theme here in like do, do, do. I need to do this, I need to do this, and I'm so regimented and nothing is working and it seems to be a very I'm sorry to call you out. No, I'm so regimented and nothing is working and it seems to be a very I'm sorry to call you out.
Speaker 1:No, I'm very conditioned. In that way, I feel like anybody who's watching?
Speaker 3:this is probably like Christine is going through it this episode. So sorry to call you out, but it's all very on theme with what you're going through currently.
Speaker 1:And I think that's a very hard concept to grasp in a world where you are pressured to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah definitely. Especially women yeah that part.
Speaker 1:I grew up with a single mom who was not a relaxed person.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so couldn't be because she couldn't be, yeah, so when we go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 2:No, no, I don't want to break off into another topic Go ahead.
Speaker 2:I want to hear what you have to say yeah, I do too, Okay, I was just going to say this might be a little off topic, but for when we get into all the sexual conflicts and territorial conflicts for women, a really big theme with this, specifically with cervical adaptations, we have a whole episode that is coming out later in September on the cervix and cervical adaptation, cervical cancer et cetera. So we have a whole episode on that coming out. But with this topic of you know, these sexual conflicts, it's all about your relationship to the masculine and do I feel safe, protected and provided for, you know, and that is a really big one for women.
Speaker 3:I love all these parallels.
Speaker 2:I do too, Like we're in the if you look at modern culture, right, it's like, oh, a lot of us have had really fractured relationships with the masculine. Yeah, oh, where we do have to do it, all right. We put all this pressure on ourself because we don't feel protected and provided for.
Speaker 3:we don't feel safe to be in our feminine this is literally the conversation we were having today at lunch.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, well, and and and I think you know, like growing up with a single mother, how can she be in her feminine and then how can she raise children who are also in their feminine? So I've, I had never had a safe relationship until I met my partner now.
Speaker 3:So I think it just it has taken really a lot of time to kind of like decondition, um, and I'm still obviously working on that well, and to that, like I think it's interesting because we were talking about this earlier we've both kind of very much transitioned out from being the I was, you know, with my husband and I. We were both the breadwinners, we both made the same amount of money.
Speaker 3:And then, when I closed my business, like everything kind of shifted and now I'm more the stay at home mom and I feel like I'm not doing enough and because we don't know this life like Christine too like since she closed her business this is like it's very much shifted into. Now we're being provided for and taken care of and we don't know what to do with that. Like everything we're shifting into feels like we're not doing enough because we're so used to this other life where we did it all. You know it's it's hard to take a step back and say what I am doing is enough, like this is what I am supposed to be doing for us.
Speaker 1:You know it's, it's really difficult to um to and, like that, be okay, yeah, so that's, that's something that I've. I've really, I'm trying to like kind of give myself a little bit of permission to do those things and it not feel guilty about it, because if you're, if you're, if you're resting, and you're feeling guilty about it, it's not rest. I've learned. So, um, yeah, I think that's hard, for I feel like a lot of women and a lot of mothers could um relate to that.
Speaker 3:So can I ask what like the different conflicts are Like? Is there like a it's, is it like thousands, Is it like five, Is it 10?
Speaker 2:So with Dr Homer, you know, only could do so much in his lifetime, uh, and he got through an awful lot of the biological programs. But I think that there is still so much more research to do. There's still a lot, that a lot of gaps to fill in, if you will. But I believe that there are somewhere over 200 biological adaptations that that he found that each have a specific type of correlating conflict or flavor of conflict. So yeah, I mean I certainly can't list them all off in like a 10 hour episode.
Speaker 3:Right, yeah, interesting. Okay, so this is like I mean sorry to change the subject. I mean we're still on the same subject, don't get me wrong, but obviously this is like a little bit controversial in the medical community and we were talking about this earlier too because so is speaking on like nutrition and diet and environmental toxins, like that's like a big no-no in the medical community. Like you don't do that. So how do you address skepticism or criticism that surrounds this modality and how do you encourage people to keep an open mind?
Speaker 2:that surrounds this modality and how do you encourage people to keep an open mind? Well, first of all and I've had to do a lot of inner work on this uh, because when you find such a beautiful way of of thinking about health and the body, something that's brought me a lot of peace, um, and something that resonates with me, it is hard to not want to just share that with everyone. And you and I have a podcast. I talk about it, my Instagram very public about it, but I do not. And again, this has been a long journey, but I don't try to convince anyone. I don't care to interact with skeptics. I was interviewed for an article recently and they were like, what would you say to the naysayers? And I was like I don't want to talk to the naysayers, like I could care less, like that is not worth my peace. I don't if someone, if this doesn't resonate with someone, that is totally fine. You know, I don't presume that I'm right or that I've found the right way. This is just what makes sense to me, and this is I always encourage people. Just what makes sense to me, and this is I always encourage people.
Speaker 2:What is your definition of truth? You know, and even with science and the current capabilities of scientific research which, by the way, GNM cannot people in the community will disagree with me, but I don't believe it can be definitively proven with current scientific capabilities, with research, because we can't research the psyche. I mean, you know people are making advances in this field but we can't research the really and get, I guess, quantitative data with. How does your psyche interpret this? What is your perception of the world? Like that is really the psyche based component of this. Like sure, we can prove the brain level with, like the CT scans and whatnot, but for the psyche, uh, level, we, we really don't have a good way to get quantitative data on that. So I'm just going to be super honest about that and like I, but to me it's, it's a belief that I, like I choose to believe it because my definition of truth is what brings me closer to peace and away from fear. And that's just for me personally.
Speaker 2:And I think everyone has to go through this process of what does truth mean to them? Who do they want to outsource their health? Who are they going to trust? Because, as you mentioned, I mean even within the conventional and holistic community, how much you know, so-called research is out there that contradicts other research out there. I mean you can take data and skew it and present it pretty much any way that you want, and if you look at, okay, who's paying for the research study to be done? I mean, then you go down even deeper rabbit hole. Okay, who's paying for the research study to be done? I mean, then you go down even deeper rabbit hole. But you know, I'm just I'm not interested in trying to prove it to anyone, because why? You know, like I really, in a very kind way, like I don't care, I care about. I need to focus on myself, what my own health, taking back my own personal responsibility and power to access my greatest level of personal freedom, and it's really none of my business what anyone else chooses to believe.
Speaker 1:Can I just say I love your authenticity.
Speaker 3:I mean you're so, you're so right, Like that's. You know. I do believe that sometimes when something is for you, it shows itself to you in in a universally whatever you believe to be God, the universe, higher power, in in whatever inexplainable way you can like. That's usually how things like I was reading, watching something this morning it's like you can't change a person, no matter how much you try. You cannot force someone to change if they are unwilling to change or if they don't want to like they have to want to. And then, energetically, when they want to change, the answers will start showing up in these obscure, inexplainable ways. So I don't think it's a coincidence that, like we came across this and immediate, we're like wait, what did you just say? German knew what you know, because we were already like searching for answers and already open to anything else that the universe had to offer.
Speaker 2:So I don't know.
Speaker 2:Wow, call me crazy, yeah, most most people are probably not ready to receive this information, and you know that's totally fine. I think probably two or three years before I found GNM, I would have not received it well, and so, and again, maybe there's still another layer of you know my, my personal, you know evolution with my beliefs about health, that I that I haven't reached yet. You know, maybe this will no longer resonate with me one day. I don't know, but I'm, this is where I'm at right now and what makes sense to me, what has given me the most peace, what has given me my power back and what has helped me feel, feel better, live better. Everything compared to other paradigms I was operating in is significant, and so you know that's where I'm always like respecting the process of the individual and where they're at, and you know seeing the divine in them and seeing you know they might not be um at the right place in their journey to be open to receive that, and that's okay.
Speaker 3:Can I ask a personal question?
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 3:Okay, you said your dad is in conventional medicine. What are his thoughts on this? On this.
Speaker 2:So he's, he's a neuroradiologist and we, you know I love my dad, he's, he's great, he's very. I think he has been so ingrained in this paradigm his whole life and his whole training and you know, he's not really one to question the norm or, oh, what the, what the experts say or the way that he was taught. I think, yeah, probably not to the extent that, certainly that I've questioned thing. But he also hasn't had the experience that I have of going through all those really difficult chronic symptoms and, you know, disillusionment with the conventional paradigm and then with the holistic health paradigm. Uh, so if you don't have reasons to question your paradigm, you know, why would you really? So I think you know he has a totally different story and, um, he's, but he very good at what he does.
Speaker 2:You know he does, uh, diagnostics, looking at, you know MRIs, imaging, you know finding, um, you know stuff with, you know head, neck and spine Right and so, um, and when we have a need for people like that, right, even with emergency medicine, and people who you know have these traumatic accidents and injuries, I mean they're, I am very thankful for emergency medicine, certainly, and for people you know, like neuroradiologists, that are there reading the scans and saying, okay, we need to do this emergency intervention, and even with biological adaptations, from the GNM perspective, there are also swellings in the brain that would absolutely kill a person that would need conventional intervention, and so you know what he does and what a lot of other doctors do still has a place.
Speaker 2:So I think that it's important to recognize that and that's why, you know, I wish that there were, or that there was, a hospital system that doctors did what they're so good at doing, but that they were operating from a place of, you know, embodying the GNM paradigm and doing interventions in a way that they're doing, you know, maybe, what needs to be done, while also respecting the body's ability to heal.
Speaker 3:I was just going to say. I feel like Dr Homer was one of those who, like, was both sides but was kind of shunned for it, and so I think it's you can't leave traditional medicine and do this and practice both Like they're not going to let you do that. So it's kind of it's messed up that there is no merging of the two, yeah, and he wanted GNM to to be.
Speaker 2:He wanted this framework to be in hospitals, right, like he wanted doctors to be the ones you know, operating from a GNM perspective with their patients. And now, the reason why people like I do education is because it's been so shunned by the medical system. You know we really don't have that. How else are we going to get this information out to people? So, but in his vision it would I mean he would. He wasn't like anti the medical system, he wanted this to be part of the medical system.
Speaker 3:He was in the medical system.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh yeah, absolutely. And he wanted all of this to be done with, like you know the way that they set up any other medical research experiment and you know the research trials and all this stuff. He wanted this to be a really large scale research operation. He wanted someone to try to prove him wrong. You know, like, what, like, look into this and they just that how it would alter the paradigm and the narrative and really take, I mean, it would. You would still need certain interventions, but it would do away with the vast majority of interventions that are that are out there Um, certainly not all of them, but it would make a lot of things Um it. You know that he was very big on um not just relying on bandaid fixes, right, because that's what we do. We're just bandaid, fixing everything, and sometimes that's totally fine, cause that's what we do. We're just band-aid fixing everything, and sometimes that's totally fine because that's what the patient wants.
Speaker 2:But even the impact of, say and this is actually what I had a conversation with my dad about I said, well, I said, do you think that someone receiving a cancer diagnosis that that could be part of what makes it so often quite fatal? And he thought about it and he's like, well, yeah, but I mean, how, how are you going to? He's like I can, yeah, I can definitely see that playing a role, that the way in which they're given a diagnosis, that that shocking moment in which they're like, oh, you only have so long to live. So I, you know, I had this conversation with my dad. I'm like how much of an impact do you think that that has? You know, like, what, what are we missing here when we do?
Speaker 2:You know, when someone gets a life altering diagnosis, what is the impact of that? You know, is, you know, doctors take this oath to do no harm, right? And I'm like, in my opinion, I think that does a lot of harm, especially when, in conventional medicine, they know full well the impact of trauma. I mean, there are a lot of research studies on the impact of traumatic experiences. So it kind of blows my mind that that this really hasn't changed the way that they, that they do things as far as giving a diagnosis Right, um, yeah, so anyway, we did have a cool conversation on that and he's definitely like he sees the plausibility and he understands like, oh, yeah, there there is something to that, but it's not what's been proven by current research. You know, um, we need a, you know, uh, actual, you know research trial to prove that you know whatever, and so I do, I do under I get that, but, um, yeah, we have had conversations um about that, so I've never thought about that before, but that's interesting.
Speaker 3:Um, what do you think of? This is so fucking random and I'm so sorry. What do you think of? Um, you can heal your life by Louise Hay. You Can Heal your.
Speaker 2:Life by Louise Hay. I don't know if I've read that book, I feel like.
Speaker 3:There's a lot of similarities, although hers isn't like as I don't want to say prescriptive, because that's not the right word, but as tangible. But it's very much like when this is happening in your life physically. This could be something that you're going through mentally and this is how you can heal it. It sounds similar.
Speaker 2:I could be wrong. I mean there's there's a lot of a lot of books out there, um, and a lot of you know teachers and speakers and coaches that are talking about the mind body connection. This is not new. I mean, this is very ancient wisdom, right, right. So I mean I definitely have heard of Louise Hay and I recently read a book by Byron Katie called, I think, loving what Is, and that was really excellent. And oh, another one of my favorite books, the Biology of Belief by Bruce Lipton. That's a really fantastic book and when you, and even Deepak Chopra, you know, when you read, you know from these different authors, there are so many synchronicities that just totally makes sense from the GNN paradigm.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, and even looking into yeah, yeah, and even you mentioned, like human design or you know any other, um, I don't know if you want to call it, you know, modality or way of thinking or way of understanding ourselves. I think that this is where there is a gap in GNM. That this can fill in is what sets us up to perceive the world in a certain way, Like what primes our perception to be more, uh, prone to indigestible morsel conflicts versus separation conflicts.
Speaker 3:Okay, you have mentioned a podcast a few times and I don't think we said it in the beginning. Well, no, we did. But, like I really want to um, invite our listeners to kind of do what we did and start from the beginning, because it's it's a lot of information, but not also, it's like, easy to digest, if that makes sense.
Speaker 3:So I, I want you to plug your podcast because I really feel like if this episode has sounded overwhelming or sounded like a lot of information, I really got a lot out of your just listening in order, and I think that they would too.
Speaker 1:So let our listeners know, like, where they can find you and you know what's coming up for the podcast for you guys, and can you also share, like if if this episode resonated with a lot of our listeners, how um people can can connect with you if can you do like one-on-one, like individual work?
Speaker 2:Yeah sure I can, I can touch on all that, um. So, yes, with the podcast, my co-host, ashley and I we really wanted to create this resource for people to be really, like you said, easy to digest, very approachable and also incorporating some humor. We have a lot of fun with it. We want this to be really easily digestible for people because I find that a lot of GNM resources out there, as you probably know, can be really overwhelming and full of different you know, keep in mind, dr Hammer's work was translated from German, okay. So, uh, it can be full of different language or the GNM lingo that can be like what the heck is this? Or very medical terminology too. Um, and, and people can get very uh, easily unless they have a medical background, it can be pretty overwhelming and confusing. And so we really do our best in the podcast to break down GNM and to offer free education in a way that hopefully will resonate with people, with where they're at in a way that makes sense to them, and then they can kind of chew on that, with where they're at in a way that makes sense to them, and then they can kind of chew on that.
Speaker 2:And I always encourage people like, don't take my word for it, don't take Dr Hammer's word for it. Like you have to see. How does this land with you? How does this resonate? Does it make sense? You know, question it, question the paradigm, question your current paradigm. Does it make sense to you, right, to keep taking the same supplement when you know maybe it's not, you know, not really getting better, like, does it make sense? Yeah, so I think yeah, taking a look at, kind of, where you're at and make your beliefs work for you. Are they moving you closer to peace or to fear? And that's really the first question I would invite anyone to ask themselves. So yeah, with the podcast, if you're brand new to GNM and you're like what the heck is GNM and I want to know the basics, listen to episodes five, six, two and three in that order I don't know why we didn't put them out in that order, but that is the order to listen to them too, Got it, I've done
Speaker 1:two, three. I've done two, three two, okay.
Speaker 2:And then as far as what I personally offer, again, I don't help anyone heal their symptoms, you know, I make that very clear. It is not my job to heal your symptoms or to resolve your conflicts for you. Uh, however, I do offer one-on-one sessions in which I educate you about your symptom, what it means from the GNM perspective. So, again, not medical advice. Uh, it's not a prescription, it's not a protocol. I'm not telling you what to do. I am just saying okay, let's construct a timeline, let's figure out when did this symptom start in your life? This is the type of related conflict. This is the type of adaptation. This is exactly what your body's doing and why it's doing it, the biological purpose of it. Okay, let's look at you. Know where were you at in life? A lot of this is pattern recognition. You know I'm playing like symptom detective and we're figuring out how is this conflict manifesting in your life and why, if it's a chronic symptom, why is that conflict still relevant in your psyche, right? So what? Uh, the most basic way to say it is that chronic symptoms point to chronic conflicts, and that's really the most simple way to put it. So I do help people one-on-one, that capacity, and then I also offer free education, not just on the podcast, but on my Instagram. And then what else? Yeah, I have different on my website, different workshops and things.
Speaker 2:And then I also have a mentorship program, and this is designed for holistic practitioners that would like to incorporate the GNM framework into their current modality.
Speaker 2:So, you know, say, if you're, you know a nutrition coach, right, how can you incorporate this you know beautiful body of knowledge in this framework and help people? Um, you know, with your what you're good at, with what you're passionate about, but in a way that's like the way that you're relating to it is totally different and the way that you're coaching your clients is going to be totally different. Um, when you incorporate this framework cause, what a lot of people people, when they learn GNM, they're like, oh well, does this mean I just have to like quit what I'm doing? Like what do I do now? Like they're caught in this, like existential crisis, like I don't feel good about continuing to coach in the way that I'm coaching, for example, but like I want to integrate GNM, but like I feel kind of stuck, I don't know how to do it, and so that's where I you know um I that's what I'm most passionate about is really helping um, yeah, helping practitioners.
Speaker 1:Well, you are the bombcom, thank you so much.
Speaker 3:This was such a great conversation. I absolutely love it. Before we hop off, what is, what is your human design profile type? What are you?
Speaker 2:Actually, this is so crazy. I am getting my chart read tomorrow by a friend of mine.
Speaker 3:Stop it Okay. Well, you'll have to keep us updated, yeah.
Speaker 2:But I know, I know I'm a generator and I know I'm five one, whatever that means.
Speaker 3:Okay, we know what that means, but we're going to let you find that out tomorrow.
Speaker 1:That makes a lot of sense too. Um, how can people find you on Instagram?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, oh, it's AJ Puccione. Okay, so I'm going to yeah, I'm not going to spell it out yet, just link it up.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we'll link it all and thank you for your time. Thank you for what you're doing. I love the way you educate and for our listeners. Stay curious, be open and we'll see you guys on the other side.
