See You On The Other Side
Leah and Christine started a podcast about their healing journeys with psychedelics in 2022. At the time, these subjects were stigmatized and not often talked about on a public platform. But after 3 years of eye opening conversations that would make some people uncomfortable, we realized this space has shifted into something more — a space to safely explore the unknown. We believe the most powerful conversations happen in the gray areas. The ones that make you squirm a little, but leave you seeing the world differently. This podcast is where curiosity meets courage. We’re not here to hand you answers. We’re here to ask the questions that shift perspectives, spark empathy, and remind us that growth starts in the discomfort. Stay curious, be open, and we'll see you on the other side.
See You On The Other Side
77 | From Powerless to Empowered (Are You a Bit F*cked?)
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Are you a bit f*cked? The question that starts everyone's healing journey. Let's delve deep into the transformative power of the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous and how they can serve as steps to healing for anyone. In this episode, we take a profound exploration into how these steps can serve as a guiding light for anyone embarking on a journey of healing and personal transformation.
From the humbling admission of powerlessness to the invigorating potential of psychedelic integration, we dissect the delicate dance of healing from past wounds and the courageous steps towards recovery and empowerment. Our discussion spans the spectrum of self-awareness, touching on the power of introspection and the courage to forge new paths.
Join us for a raw and reflective session, peppered with personal growth insights, as we aim to resonate with individuals navigating their own paths of self-discovery. Tune in, and discover a fragment of your own narrative within the mosaic of our shared experiences.
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Hair, Empathy, and Personal Stories
Speaker 1the other day we were listening to kids bop in the car and he was like I just had a great idea . What if they made a kids bop but for adults , where it says the bad words ? And I was like so the original song original like . So you mean the music I listen to in the car all the time . We were only listening to kids bop , because l1 l was trying to explain to us that the song a , b , c , d , e , f , u like how is like ?
Speaker 1c , d , e , f ? U , and your mom and your brother and whatever . I was like , how do they do that with kids bop ? And she was trying to explain it to me . So what do they do ? They say A , b , c , d , e , f , forget you , oh god , yeah . So I went to kids bop just to listen , but that was Austin's .
Speaker 2Did you ever have the now yeah , yeah , now 72 with Cisco ? I saw a meme where it was like can Cisco do another song , but about like women's shapewear that is actually covering on your bottom , not a thong song Like a tighty-whity song , tighty-whity song Like a granny panty songy song like a granny panty song .
Speaker 1Yeah , like a granny panty song some boy short songs , some oversized t-shirt songs , good lounge set song , yeah , I mean my jammies songs , my fuzzies my good the good bonnet and heatless curler song when you're wearing nothing but your slippers . It's like supposed to be super sexy when you have nothing but heels on , like what about my ? What about if I'm fully ass naked with my mushroom slippers , with my fuzzy mushroom slippers ?
Speaker 2is that sexy ? Yeah , can that be . Let me see those granny panties .
Speaker 1I love it Okay , before we get started , I'm keeping that in there . Some of that is staying . You were saying something to me about something on bravo , which always all of our conversations lead to something on . Bravo , I learned so much from you . It's my entire personality that that's your roman empire . It is literally , literally . But tell me what you were talking about with the hair situation . Wait , what with the girl having to cut her hair ?
Speaker 2oh , okay , okay . So , um , there is a housewives housewives franchise , um , real housewives of miami , and this new season is the beginning of the season . One of the women finds out that she has breast cancer . Okay , and it's a whole thing with Larsa Pippen . She like outs to everybody that this girl has breast cancer . Anyways , dude , so you're watching her whole journey and her husband is incredibly supportive and great . And then she has very long , beautiful black hair . She's Haitian and she films when she like chops her hair off and like gets a buzz cut and she's like sobbing and she's very expressive already but she's sobbing and I saw the video or the clip get posted on the internet and so many people in the comments were so fucking awful and hateful and we're like , oh my god , like it's not that big of a deal and you know , oh god , she's so dramatic and I and you and I have very strong opinions about this with our hair . Yeah , and do you want to go into that ?
Speaker 1Yeah , so yeah , you go first .
Speaker 2Yeah , so , and so I was just like man , like the lack of empathy and compassion and also just the world of social media , where it's just so instant . You think you know people's story and like you'd watch one clip and we get this all the time on our , on our social media .
Speaker 2People watch one clip and they think that they make assumptions . They make assumptions , they have our podcast figured out . They have what we talked about , talk about , figured out . And I'm like , bro , you don't even know what you're talking about , dave . Like , come on . And so for me , I have hair extensions , I have long hair , I love my long hair . There is a reason why I love my long hair , so I have shared with listeners that , um , I was bleemic , uh , growing up before . I was bleemic as a way of feeling in control over , um , an environment that I didn't feel control in yeah , I pulled my hair out , pulled my hair out .
Speaker 2I pulled my hair out , pulled my hair out . I pulled my eyelashes out . I pulled my eyebrows out because I felt so out of control in my surroundings .
Speaker 1I don't think I realized that level , that deep of level , because you were the first person I ever microbladed , like we did , your brows and you're like they just don't grow Like .
Speaker 2I didn't realize it was because of that . I have never said that to anybody besides you and Tony .
Speaker 1Oh shit , yeah , until now , until now , yeah , damn .
Speaker 2Yeah . So like me having long hair , me having eyebrows , me having just regular lashes , those are big deals for me . Yeah , like . So if somebody may assume or stereotype like , oh god , she's so high maintenance , she has hair extensions , to that I I say , yeah , also , there's more to that story , right , always is so . Um , at that time that was what I knew and that was a way of helping me cope . Yeah , because I didn't have any other tools to cope . I didn't have a safe adult , I didn't have anybody to talk to . I couldn't escape . Yeah , you don't have an avenue , so you find other ways to self-soothe , and that was one of the things that I did . And then , as I got older , there was a lot of shame around it . Yeah , and now I'm just going to own it because it is a part of my story .
Speaker 2So , hair extensions and all .
Speaker 1I , as an adult , have always had long hair yeah , always like tied to my long hair . I never had extensions until the last few years . Um , I didn't need them because my hair was always long . But , um , I realized over the last few years I have such a strong opinion on short hair on me , like if you can rock it totally , but like I have such an aversion to short hair on myself because I grew up with my mom keeping my hair short . My hair is very naturally curly . I don't think she knew what to do with it . She also had short hair so she would just cut my hair to match hers and it was a big deal for me . Like I always wanted long hair . My younger sister got to always have long hair . Can ?
Speaker 2I ask something .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2Why did you have to have short hair and then your sister got to have long hair ? Good question .
Speaker 1I don't fucking know Interesting . I find that very interesting . Well , I think it's because my sister had red hair . She was born a redhead and it was this long , beautiful , wavy hair and anytime we would be out with her like people would always be like oh my god , your hair's so beautiful , and talk about like ugly step sister syndrome , like we're full siblings . But I really had a complex with because nobody ever commented about my hair . But they were always looking at her hair and commenting and it's so beautiful and oh my gosh , is it .
Speaker 1Her hair is so red and long and pretty I had to braid it sometimes , like at night after our baths , like I would have to braid my little sister's hair and I would like it's . You know , you know . I want to like fucking cut her hair off . Yeah , that sounds so terrible , but like I , she was always the favorite , so that really fucked me up a little bit Interesting .
Speaker 2Because you were the . What's funny is because you're not really a rebel . No , in a lot of ways you are very much so a rule follower , even though I know I know people like people are probably like , so puzzled like really bitch like no , I will like if there is like a speed limit .
Speaker 1I'm following god . Yes , I don't like to take snacks into the theater because I'm afraid we're gonna get get caught for real . My husband sneaks into shit all the time and I'm like I'm not doing that . Tony would stress you out so much .
Speaker 2I can't .
Speaker 1So yeah , I'm a rule follower . What were you going to say with that ?
Speaker 2I don't remember . Okay , hang on , give it . Give it a second . Um , I don't remember . I'll , I'll come to it .
Speaker 1Oh , you were like you weren't a rebel oh you're being the favorite .
Speaker 2OK , yes , now I know , thank you . Ok , you weren't a rebel , so it's it's interesting to me that you were kind of like the rebel in your family , though because you really black sheep in the sense that like Like you're not argumentative , you're not confrontational , you're not , but you were with your mom .
Speaker 1I was with my mom . We butt heads a lot , yeah , um , a lot , a lot , uh , any . So back
Generational Hair and Healing Journey
Speaker 1to that . Like I was showing you photos of myself as a kid the other day , like when I say short hair I don't mean like shoulder length , like girl had a fro , I had an , I really did .
Speaker 2And I hate laughing at that . It's okay , you can laugh at it . Those pictures like you have , very like I do not have . I have fine hair , but I have a lot of it . So it's like I have long hair but I do extensions for volume where you have really thick hair , yeah , so like you have such beautiful hair and you just look so .
Speaker 1I look like a little old woman . I really did . I wore big glass like I know , those glasses are super cute on you , but those are the kind of glasses I had to wear as a kid . Well , they're trendy now . They weren't trendy then , thank God . Like , thank you now for being trendy . But like , yeah , I had big glasses . I looked like a little old woman . Like my hair was short like a granny cut . Like a granny cut , yeah , it wasn't even like a bob no , it wasn't .
Speaker 1It wasn't cute and it was curly and brushed out and we're gonna have to post some of these . I feel like we have before , but people are gonna be searching for them your kid photos are .
Speaker 1It is like I just remembered there was the first time when jason and I , when my husband I first started dating , I've always straightened my hair . Like literally since the moment I discovered what a straightener was , I've straightened it . I've done keratin treatments Like I keep the frizz out . I do what I need to do to keep it straight . I don't embrace my natural curl and people are like , oh my God , you should .
Speaker 2I'm like no , I think that too no .
Speaker 1What do I know . But so we had probably been dating at least a good six to nine months and we go to the lake and I'm like in the water , I get on the boat , my hair is naturally drying and he goes what happened to your hair ? So , anyway , it's just funny because we had this talk the other day , because I I've always had this thing with my hair , and for a long for like a decade I would do pink hair or blue hair . I've always done color in my hair and it wasn't until like 2020 that I've just been like this basic ass I don't mean to say basic like just this , this natural color . It's not my natural color .
Speaker 1But he said I just prefer your hair natural . And I'm like don't say that , cause you don't like . If you prefer my hair natural , you're saying dark with curls , and he's like well , not like that Anyway . So I have always had this thing with my hair and last year I had to cut it and I was like distraught over it . But I noticed it because I used to like post a lot more reels and photos and things with our Instagram and I noticed , like you're like you need to post more of that . I stopped when my hair got cut and you didn't realize it I didn't even realize that I was just like what happened ?
Speaker 1like where did my confidence go ? Like why am I not wanting to be in front of the camera anymore ? That was why how crazy is that ? But the full circle moment here . So I've always hated shorter hair because I was forced to have short hair as a kid growing up . My mom came to stay with me a couple of weeks ago and some of you may or may not know that we've like couple of weeks ago and , um , some of you may or may not know that we've like we're healing we're healing .
Speaker 2It is what it is . Um , I think you've you've accepted that she is how she's going to be . Um , there's nothing I can say , and you're not trying to change her , convince her of anything that should or shouldn't have happened , and also , I think she is much more respectful of your boundaries .
Speaker 1Well , and she knows she can't .
Speaker 1Yes , and I have something to say about that too . Okay , put a pin in that . Okay , put a pin in that about when I was getting my tattoo and what was said ? Put a pin in that , okay . Um , so she has been growing her hair out . It's like waist length now because she's been taking care of my memo , who is elderly and has dementia . And then my aunt has been growing her hair out because of my memo and I was like , oh my God , my mom grew up like holiness , couldn't cut her hair , couldn't wear pants , couldn't wear makeup .
Speaker 1Her , her whole , every female in her family had to have long hair . Um , so my mom's short hair thing as I was growing up was her rebellion against her having to have long hair as a kid . And she's doing it now because she's like taking care of my mom . My mom was like I wish you'd grow your hair out , and so she started growing her hair back out . But I was like , oh my God , that full circle , like I hated having short hair because my mom forced me to have short hair . And then realizing my mom had short hair because her parents forced her to have long hair . So wild , it's so wild . I have like a little bit more empathy and compassion for like Her shit . I have like a little bit more empathy and compassion for like her shit . I have a lot more empathy and compassion for her shit . But like that connection to my hair was like holy shit that's gross , yeah , so I will be wearing extensions until my hair is this length again because you know , I , I , but you have compassion for her .
Speaker 2Yeah , um , instead of resentment , yeah .
Speaker 1So let me tell you what was said . The pin all right , take it out jinx . Um . So I was getting , uh , some work done on my tattoo and we were talking about this and she was just like , well , don't you want to say something to like , shouldn't you say something to her ? I can't remember exactly what she said , but like , wouldn't you want to tell her ? If she was like being like not able to hear you , and I was like what would the point of that be , though ? I tried my whole life to get her to see my side of things and she wasn't able to , and it would just cause and create more conflict within myself too . Yeah , because then I would just be like , oh , my God , she doesn't get it . So , like , bringing it up to her now , when I know that she , she is who she is and she is , um , I don't want to say she's not capable , because everybody is capable of changing and self-reflecting , but doing it when she may not be ready is only going to cause more distress in the relationship .
Speaker 2That is unnecessary that's growth , right , yeah , and you're , I think before , because I'm guilty of this too so much and still a little bit . But trying to control where it's like you I can't . They can only meet you where they are Right . It just , it is what it is and you can try until you die . Accepting that . Yeah Right , it just it is what it is and you can try until you die accepting that .
Speaker 1Yeah . Yeah , it's a hard lesson , but also it's a necessary lesson . Yeah , and so , anyway , that's my story about my hair and yours . Yeah , so just knowing that , like there's always something , there's always something deeper than the surface .
Speaker 2Yeah , so many , so many of um like friends have reached out since I've done this podcast and they're like I had no idea . I had no idea that it was that intense . I had no idea that you struggled that much . And I'm like , well , yeah , I didn't tell you , right , I struggled with safety within myself and with other people . So I I I didn't know a lot of these things myself and so I wasn't going to share it with you , right ?
Speaker 1So I'm You're just now learning all these things about yourself Literally .
Speaker 1We're like learning as we're growing and healing I feel like that's a phenomenon too is like the more you heal , the more you learn about yourself and also have compassion and empathy for other people around you and what they may or may not be going through and where they are and their capacity to hold things versus yours . Yeah yeah . So where I am now is a very different place than I think where my mom is , so I'm able to hold where she is and to see it for what it is , and I don't want to disrupt that for her . I'm not trying to force her to be anything . It still hurts .
Speaker 2I think that grief will always , that type of grief , will always be there . It doesn't necessarily go away . You just learn to sit with it a little bit better .
Speaker 1So let's , let's go into healing a little bit bit better . So let's , let's go into healing a little bit . I didn't even mean to do that , but that did that . So I wanted to do this with you today , um , because I've been . I some of you know my husband is an alcoholic in recovery . He went through the 12 steps . Um , we have touched on a little bit of that . But when he started the program , like I bought the book for myself , for myself , not even like I wanted to understand where he was going in this journey and I didn't want to , um , I didn't want to , like , not be a part of it .
Speaker 2That's one of the things I love most about you . What that like ? He's doing something so you dive right in , so you learn all about it .
Speaker 1Unless it's his work stuff , cause I don't know anything about tech stuff .
Speaker 2But when it's when it comes to like him , his healing , his growth , him becoming better , you becoming better , um you guys growing together yeah .
Speaker 1It's . It's kind of reminds me of like when I was first pregnant . You know that book everybody reads . That's like um yeah . I don't even remember the fucking name of it , but it's like what to expect when you're expecting yes . I wanted him to read it with me . And he was like , why , like he didn't understand that . And I was like , why , like he didn't understand that . And I was like , because I want you to understand what I'm going through at the same time that I'm going through it .
Speaker 2That's what I mean . A lot of people may not be like that or get it in that way where you want to understand .
Speaker 1I want to understand . You want to learn why they are the way that they are and why they do what they do Like you go down that rabbit hole Right .
Speaker 1So I understand the 12 steps to the degree that I understand them . To the degree that I understand them because I've never worked the program but I was there every step of the way and understood which ones were probably going to be really hard for him . But I want to talk about this because literally from the time I read it I immediately was like hold on a minute . These are like integration steps when you do like a psychedelic journey . This is like these are steps to healing and I already knew at that point , like the whole history of Bill Wilson and doing LSD and it being a part of the culture of AA before the 60s came and knocked that out of the way .
Speaker 1It was an underground thing , it was a big part of AA is that LSD spiritual experience ? We don't have to get into that right now , we don't have to get into the history of it . We have posts on that and we have talked about it before . So as I'm reading the book and the steps , I'm like , okay , bill Wilson fucking got it . Like these are literally like steps to integrating a psychedelic experience but also steps to healing , yeah , period . So if there's anything that AA has gotten right since then , this is it . So hear me out . You do not have to be an alcoholic to follow these steps .
Speaker 2Can I say why I wanted to do this episode today ? Yeah , okay . So I came to Leah and I was like I feel like there are certain people
Accountability and Self-Reflection in Healing
Speaker 2that we know that are healing . They're healing , they're doing the breath work , they're doing the therapy , they're doing the psychedelic journeys , they're doing all of these things to be like I'm doing the work but you're not and you're not and you're not and you're not . And I'm here and you're down here and you need to get on my level , which we have said those things before as well Like my vibration is here and I want people to meet us here , but there is um . Vibration is here and I want people to meet us here , but there is um . There is a lack of accountability that comes with it , or self-awareness , and self-awareness and self-reflection , and also a lack of yes , this may be happening in this relationship with this person and I may feel that they did this , but is there a way that I also contributed it to ?
Speaker 1this as well , so you literally brought this to me . Like people should be reflecting on what they are doing , like how they are contributing to the problem .
Speaker 2It's not just this person's projection .
Speaker 2Yes , because and I think oftentimes I'm guilty of it , I know you're guilty of it where it's like I'm a victim . They did this to me and , and you know , again , in our childhood it was unfair . I said earlier , I felt like I couldn't escape . I didn't have , you know , coping mechanisms that were , um , healthy and but it it got to a point where I wasn't in that situation anymore , I wasn't in that environment , I could make my own choices , but I still had toxic patterns , yeah , and then I had to be like , okay , like I'm fucking me up .
Speaker 1Yes , you are .
Speaker 2It's on me now .
Speaker 1That's going to make more sense when you hear what I have to say . Yes , you are bitch yeah .
Speaker 2It's on like what do I need to do ? Well , it's like what I was saying , because I can't control A , b , c , d , but I can control me , right ? So what is it that I need to do ? And then , you know , with the mushroom journey was like , oh fuck , I've got like a lot of toxic patterns and behaviors and , yes , I may have chose toxic partners , but also I chose toxic partners because I was toxic as well .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2They may have been toxic because they cheated on me and you know , had abusive tendencies or whatever .
Speaker 1But like there was something you were doing . Yeah , I was .
Speaker 2I , I was attracted to that , I , I stayed in it . I you know there's so much to it , and so that sometimes bothers me to see where I see this kind of like righteousness and ego and I'm like have you checked yourself Right ?
Speaker 1Sir ma'am , and it's easy to say now , versus like four or five years ago and I used to be this person too like I was the victim and I was I absolutely was married to an alcoholic . Sure , I on the outside looked very much like a victim , and where I am now is like even I had a role to play in that . I did , I didn't defend myself , I didn't want to sever connections , so I stayed . I apologized when I shouldn't have been apologized . I apologized for my feelings , I apologized for getting upset . You know I played a role in my own suffering .
Speaker 2Yeah , well , you are a very vocal former . People pleaser , yeah , People pleasing is a form of manipulation . It's not a flex , yeah , it is .
Speaker 1It is not a flex , it is manipulation to be liked by everybody , and it's , it's manipulation wrapped in a pretty bow .
Speaker 2Yes .
Speaker 1Because it looks like you're the person who's going to go above and beyond , but really you're doing it because you don't want to sever any connections . You want people to like you for what you do for them . Yeah , and it's . It's really a disservice to yourself . It's a disservice to the other people too , because then , when you do start putting up boundaries and you do start saying no , they are like what ?
Speaker 2I don't like that . You're not as cool as I thought you were and it's like well then , you didn't know me , right , because that wasn't me , that was just me , people pleasing , that was me sucking your ass . Literally , literally . And I don't want to suck your ass anymore .
Speaker 1I don't want to do it anymore . It's gross . No more ass sucking for us , no more um , but it's a hard pattern to break out of too , that people please say I've gotten so much better at it , but it's still . You know , when it's difficult , it's when it's like if it's with somebody that we really do genuinely love and appreciate we were just talking about this .
Speaker 2Yes , if and I tell you this all the time If you come at me all saucy and sassy , guess what ? Come and wrap it , I'm not going to feel as bad , okay , you know , yeah , I would be like , yeah , easy , uh , no , dog .
Speaker 2But if you're like sweet , like you , you want to spend time , and I'm just like , no , I'm just emotionally tapped out . It's not personal , it's . It's a lot harder for me to say no , because I'm not trying to sever the bond there , but I am trying to protect yourself , I'm just trying to protect myself , that's all . Yeah , and that that is really tough and that's something that I'm still very much still working on .
Speaker 1So , okay , you want to get into it , let's get into it . Let's get into it , let's get into it . Let's get into it . 30 minutes later , whatever , it's fine . Um , so one of the things that I have been vocal about this too is , like step one in um aa is to admit that you're powerless , and I hate that step because you're not , but I'm retracting that statement . Okay , I think it's necessary in the beginning . Why I think you have to ? Because you are . You have to admit it , because you are powerless to that substance or in a situation .
Speaker 2So let's take like yeah , give some examples .
Speaker 1I want to say well , my husband was powerless to alcohol , like alcohol had a control over him . The goal is to become empowered , but you're not there yet . So before I was like I don't like saying you're powerless to anything because you're not , but like there are a lot of people who are powerless in their dynamics , in their relationship , in their work environment , in their take alcohol out of it , take drugs and alcohol out of it . You can be powerless . In this , I was powerless . So the first step to AA is admitting that .
Speaker 1What were you powerless
Steps to Healing and Recovery
Speaker 1to ? Oh God , I didn't have a voice . I was . I was powerless to honestly like honoring myself and loving myself Like I didn't have that . Is that a good enough answer ? Yeah , I was powerless because I thought I was stuck in a situation and I was never going to get out of it , and that's just not true . But I feel like at the time I had to admit that I was . So that's only the first step . So I retract my statement about like that not being a first step . Okay . Also , I was going to bring the AA book , but I couldn't find it , so I found this one instead . This is what my husband started with and a lot of people are opposed to AA because of the religious parts of it . This takes the religion out of it , but it's Russell Brand's book recovery . But I love it because while the first step in um , in aa , is admitting that you're powerless , his first step is are you a bit fucked ? I love that . Are you a ?
Speaker 2bit fucked . This is gonna be so much saucier than .
Speaker 1I know , I know Like add a little spicy . Yeah , it's like the guy yeah . Um , so are you a bit fucked .
Speaker 2Yeah , I used to be very fucked .
Speaker 1Is there something in your life that you can't change , and what is it ? And are you powerless in this situation ? Are you fucked ? Admit that to yourself , because I think a lot of people especially in alcoholics or drug addicts or I mean anyone really they're like no , no , no , no , I'm not powerless to it . I'm not . I'm not powerless to it . I'm not fucked Like . I can stop anytime .
Speaker 2So there's a lack of self-awareness and also like self , like you , have to hold yourself accountable .
Speaker 1Yeah . And so this says like you know it's , it's , it's got . You have to have a level of honesty , because addiction , replaced with the word addiction with , like any situation that you are unhealed in or stuck in , causes a level of denial that can be quite challenging . So I was in denial , like even when I was in my lowest depressive episodes . I was just I was in denial about it . Like how can I be depressed ? Like look at my life . I have three healthy kids . Like I have a husband who cooks and cleans and provides .
Speaker 1And why am I depressed ? There's no reason to be Like I was in denial about my literal existence , like being as bad as it was , and it wasn't until I woke up that I was like , oh my God , this is why I've been depressed , like I've been living in this shit for so long that it was normal to me . So , yeah , there's a level . You have to be honest . So , no matter how much you push someone into recovery and again , take this to like any unhealed person so like , let's take this back to my mom , I don't know how much healing she's done , it doesn't matter . But no matter how much you push someone into recovery , unless they accept that there's a problem . It's impossible . So I cannot force my mom to be where I am in my healing . It is all on me .
Speaker 2Okay , yeah .
Speaker 1So , yeah , the first step is like admitting that you're powerless over something . Once you admit that , that it's in control of you and not the other way around , then you can go to the next step oh , okay , okay , okay , um , which is I'm just going to do Russell Brands . Okay , do it . Yeah , could you not be fucked ? So in AA , it's having faith that , like there's a possibility that you could get better right , like have a little bit of faith that this program will work . So in this situation , it's like could you not be fucked ? For ? Just think about it . Think about a life where you're not powerless anymore , where you have a voice , where you can , where you are able to make changes .
Speaker 2So it makes me think of so what I was talking about earlier , where someone is constantly a victim and it's like I'm in this bad , bad marriage and they're doing this , they're doing that , they're doing this , they're doing that , but it's all . They , they , they , them , yeah , Whereas it needs to be . What can I do about this ? Could you leave ? Is he willing to change ? Is she willing to change ? Could you ?
Speaker 1speak up . Is that a possibility ? Could you get help ? Is that a ?
Speaker 2possibility . Yeah , am I contributing to this in some way ? That I need to heal and grow and change still ?
Speaker 1Right . So , yeah , faith , you need to accept that there is . This is where people get lost and they get stuck and they remove themselves from this whole program . Because this is like accept that there's a higher power in the universe other than yourself . It can be God . It can's a higher power in the universe other than yourself . It can be God . It can be a higher power . You can just say it's the universe conspiring in your favor . It doesn't have to be God and it doesn't have to be religious , but like just trust that there is a possibility that things will work out for you . That's all . Step two is just having faith . Okay . Step three work out for you . That's that's all . Step two is just having faith . Okay , um . Step three um , are you , on your own , going to unfuck yourself ? I fucking love these . You might want to read this book . It's actually really good . I mean he's like referring to like his addictions , but like I swear to God , this can go for just so good , literally anything so good , um , so yeah .
Speaker 1So now that you've accepted a higher power and you welcome them by surrendering , um , uh , blah , blah , blah , focus on the true meaning of your life so you can feel like a valuable member of society again . So , really , the third step is surrender . But like , really he's saying , like , are you on your own going to unfuck yourself ? So , so , just surrendering to the fact that , like , there's a possibility . Step four this is where a lot of people get stuck in AA , my husband included . This is the hardest one and this is why we brought this up earlier . Um , write down all the things that are fucking you up or ever have fucked you up , and don't lie or leave anything out . Now , this is where you also have to , like Jason , my husband had to write a list of resentments and who they were towards , and he had pages of them and then out beside it he had to write . After he was done listing them out , had to write the role he played in it . You don't get to skip that part . You don't get to skip it . You can sit here and write a list of grievances that people have fucked you over and people have done to you , and then you literally have to go back and out beside it , write the thing that you did . So this is like impossible to skip . That like self-reflection , that self-awareness part , you can't . I love that . So this is in real life too , yes , so okay , my , I'm just going to give this as an example .
Speaker 1You know , I would have resentments like um , you went out all night and you didn't tell me where you're going and you didn't come home and your phone was off and I resent you for that . And then the role that I played well , he did that all the time and I never really held him accountable for it and , of course , he would continue to do it because there were never any repercussions . You accepted it and I accepted it , and I would be mad for a minute and then I would be lovey-dovey again because he didn't like when I was mad and I didn't want to sever that connection . Wow , wow . So I would get the silent treatment because I was mad , and then I would like stop being mad . So I wasn't getting the silent treatment anymore . Wow , so it's a real fucked up way of like .
Speaker 1Well , but I contributed to that . It's kind of like what you've always said Like you teach people how to treat you . Yeah , you know , like I didn't do what I , I didn't love myself enough to like put a stop to it , not even just to put a stop to it , because , again , I couldn't control what he was doing , but I could have removed myself from the situation , I could have done something different . So it's back on me . Well , I could have done something different Right .
Speaker 2And for me , let's say , with my past partners , I constantly dated men that cheated on me . Yeah , always , I mean that was just the norm . But yes , I was unlike you in the sense where I would speak up , we would break up all of that , but something I learned about myself and I would blame them . They cheated on me . Fuck them , go to another one . Oh , he cheated on me . Fuck him , go to another one . He cheated on me . Fuck him , go to another one . Why was I attracted to those type of men ?
Speaker 1You've had to do that work .
Speaker 2Yeah , I liked the drama and the chaos because that was what was familiar for me . So it's like , yes , those men did those things , but there were so many red flags that I ignored , yeah , and I was gravitated to them , knowing those things about them and knowing that they like deep in my gut , in my heart , knowing that they weren't the right man for me . Right , it's what I felt like I deserve . Were you a fix , a hoe .
Speaker 1I was a fix a hoe . I loved an asshole .
Speaker 2You also like , loved , like the challenge of forcing someone to love you . That and , like I , I liked combativeness , yeah , like . So I wasn't like you . Where I would you know , bow down ? Oh , I would fight back , yeah , but I also liked that drama of the fighting , like I was attracted to to fighting .
Speaker 1Yeah , I'm a fighter . That makes a lot of fucking sense .
Speaker 2Yeah , so it's like so again . For a long time it was there an asshole , there an asshole , there an asshole . But it's like so again . For a long time it was they're an asshole , they're an asshole , they're an asshole , but it's like bitch , you had some toxic shit too , right oh okay .
Speaker 1So what russell ? What he says is , yeah , write things down that you've ever fucked , that are fucking you up or have ever fucked you up , and don't lie or leave anything out . And then the aa step is like called . It's like soul searching . It's a process just like recovery . There's no single moment that defines healing . Instead , it's a culmination of intentions and actions that lead you down the right path . Soul searching involves looking objectively inwards at yourself . So soul searching is the thing that helps you become a better person . I love that . Um , not pointing fingers , you're . It's like that old saying when you point fingers , you got three more pointing right back at you .
Speaker 2I think of that meme where it's like Spider-Man and they're all like , they're all pointing at each other .
Speaker 1Yes , yeah , yeah and it's like actually no , you are the problem , yeah , you are also the solution , though yes like you might be the problem , but you're also the solution and how empowering can that be well if you let it get through all this stuff and you'll get to the point where you're empowered , all right .
Speaker 1Step five is integrity in the real book . But in his book , in russell brand's book , it's honestly , tell someone trustworthy about how fucked you are . So so Jason had a sponsor . This is why sponsors are so important in AA because he could go to his sponsor and be open and honest about . I'm going to be honest with you , I've never seen his list , his step four list , never seen it . But his sponsor has , and his sponsor worked over it with him like every single one of them , whereas me I'm like . But how many pages were about me ? How many ? Because there were a lot of resentments he had towards me , like he resented that I got pregnant and that's something I couldn't help . I mean , I could . Let me take that he resented me for getting pregnant accidentally when I was 23 . And it forced him to be a dad , and but his role in that was well , I had unprotected sex with my girlfriend at the time and I was never careful and so that's on me , my bad Right , right , it's not just you .
Speaker 1I can't resent you for for choosing to have the baby who made me a father right right , he was an active participant . But that stuck .
Speaker 2That resentment held on to our relationship for the next 15 years you know , because you guys probably never really talked about it , or no ?
Speaker 1had that hard conversation . Nope , we just went immediately into being young parents before we were ready and it took away from his party and drinking , but he resented me for it gotcha anyway . So integrity like these are the types of things that he had to talk with his sponsor about so honestly . For me that's part of like maybe having a support group , having friends that you can honestly and openly talk to about what you're going through and understanding the role that you played in it . But while like talking back and forth with a friend , possibly like he did a , b and C , but I'm doing this , this and this and there might be a different perspective and he probably sees it a different way and or they probably see it a different way , you know , it doesn't have to be he , can be she . Whatever the situation is , I think it's good to have that person that you can go back and forth with . Um . Six is acceptance . So Russell Brand says well , that's a lot of fucked up patterns . Do you want to stop it ? Seriously , that's the . That's the name of this chapter .
Speaker 1In AA it's called acceptance . It's where you accept that like , oh shit , I've done a lot of fucked up shit . Addiction is often underpinned by low self-esteem and a negative opinion of yourself , and once you learn to accept that everyone has both good and bad characteristics , it'll be easier to accept yourself . Sometimes , the hardest aspect of acceptance is letting go of the painful stories we tell ourselves about the past . However , once you accept your history , you can start telling yourself now happy stories about your future . Um so , anyway , yeah , this is like all right now that you've accepted that , there's this issue like how are we moving forward ? Do you want to stop doing what you're doing ? No , but really do you ? Okay , then let's , let's work on that . Um seven is are you willing to live in a new way ? That's not all about you and your previous fucked up stuff .
Steps to Personal Growth and Accountability
Speaker 2Do a lot of people get stuck on that step ? Because I feel like we get a lot of comments where it's like hey , I want to change , but I'm not willing to change .
Speaker 1Right , but that's going to be really hard .
Speaker 2So like , yeah , I want to still keep my life , I still want to keep these patterns . But I just want to feel better and I'm like okay , so you're not ready to change yet , Cause you have to change things .
Speaker 1Right ? Or what about the people who have reached out to us and said I really want to do something like this , like with mushrooms or a journey , but they're like . But what if it ? What if it says that , like I shouldn't be with my husband ? What if I get a divorce after this ?
Speaker 2And it's so funny because it's like that's what people say right off the bat yeah , I want to do this , but I'm worried I'm going to divorce my husband . Well , is that is ? Are there problems ?
Speaker 1Or in Tony's situation , I don't . I want to do this , but I'm afraid I'm going to quit my job . And then what's he do ? He quits his job . But I know he already had it in your head . We know that mushrooms didn't put that in there it was already there , right ? They're not going to force you to do anything , right , but where ?
Speaker 2for me doing mushrooms . That wasn't even a thought . Yeah With with , with Tony , my partner , because it was that , like , I knew that he was supportive and willing to grow and evolve with me and if , like , we need to do something , he would do it . Yeah , so that wasn't even that wasn't even on my radar .
Speaker 1I think it's on a lot of people's radar because it's what they think . I think it's their subconscious telling them something's off , yeah . So again , don't be afraid of like . If it's in your head , it's in there for a reason , but mushrooms aren't going to force you to divorce your husband or quit your job .
Speaker 2Well and and you never know , maybe mushrooms and healing will hold you both accountable and you both will heal and grow together .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 1Um , just doesn't have to just be divorce . So in the real steps . Step seven instead of it being , are you willing to live in a new way ? That's not all about you is humility . So this says antisocial behaviors such as alcohol , drinking alcohol or doing drugs and or withdrawing from peers often stems from a confused sense of self . When you let go and ask a higher power for help , you will relieve a huge weight of pressure from your life . So that's just . I don't know how to like relate those two . I know it's the same step , but I think that confused sense of self is there Often a lot . Like we don't know much about who we are and what we want . I guess that's the thing . Like you think you don't want to divorce your husband , but like that's the thing that you're afraid of happening . Well , yeah , why , there's a sense , there's something they're telling you . Anyway , all right . Step eight prepare to apologize to everyone for everything affected by your being so fucked up .
Speaker 2I think I've , I've , I've said this , but after my first mushroom journey I went on a little apology tour .
Speaker 1I . That happens with a lot of people . I've had a few people who do a mushroom journey and then go on an apology tour . I was somebody who was a fighter .
Speaker 2Yeah . So I was going to look for something to fight with you about or look for something to be angry angry with you about , not just romantic relationships with you know , just people in my life . And so there were a lot of people who I messaged and I was like , hey , I'm , I'm really sorry , I was such an asshole in high school , Like I was . Just I was angry , I , I , you know , was not having a great time at home and I projected it onto you because it's not a fun time , right ? Bad vibes all around .
Speaker 1Yeah , but I projected 10 out of 10 .
Speaker 2would not recommend would like a refund , please , um , but I projected it onto people who didn't cut me , yeah .
Speaker 2And although , yes , I was a victim during that time , like they were also victims of my wrath as well . Yeah , because I had a sharp ass tongue and if I were coming at you , yeah , you weren't going to win . So that's , that's something I had to learn to be accountable for . And now it's to the point where I'm like I love my strength and I love my voice and I love that , but I'm very like I don't be soft . I don't know how to be soft , but you're getting better . You are getting better , yeah , but I'm very like I'm conscious of , I don't want to hurt you . I still want to say what I want to say , yeah , but I don't want to .
Speaker 1I'm not trying to hurt your feelings and I'm working on how to say it . Yeah , which takes time . It's all into the delivery , so that makes a lot of sense . Sometimes I don't know how to deliver . Does anybody until they like start Well , and sometimes the delivery is different based on the person who you're delivering it to .
Speaker 1It's work , it's about learning each other's languages . That's hard , um , so that one's just preparing to apologize . So , like you have to get into this , okay . So step eight in the real a is , like the willingness you'll write a list of people you've harmed . Ponder carefully over your actions instead of feeling guilty or wallowing in it . Think of ideas to make amends . Um , genuinely show a willingness to make amends with that .
Speaker 1Now , when , um , my husband got to this step , it's hard because , like you think you're like oh my God , I have to do like a whole ass list of everybody I've hurt in my entire life . No , like , if they're important to you , yes , if they're in your immediate life , yes , if there is something that happened 20 years ago and you're still like dealing with the shame and the guilt of it , yes , even if you're not in you know conversation , even if you're not in direct contact with that person anymore , like if you're still living with that guilt and that shame , then yeah , make them , put them on your Um . So the next step is now apologize , unless that would make things worse . Ah , so there , ha , there were people on his list where he was . Like it would probably hurt my marriage if I reached out to this person and apologize .
Speaker 1I don't , I don't know . I'm just making that up , I don't know . But like , if it's not , if it's not helpful , if it's , if it's not going to help you or the other person , if it's just going to do them harm , then don't do it . I think another thing with this is um , let's say I'm going to use this as an example . Let's say you cheated on . Let's say you cheated on . Let's say I cheated on someone , like 20 years ago in high school . I'm not gonna reach out to that person and tell them I cheated on them .
Speaker 1No , they're gonna be like cool , I'm married with three kids and two dogs , right , they'd be like cool , I cheated on you too , awesome , like that's more of the story , you know . But , um , yeah , unless it's , it's not gonna be helpful , unless it would make things worse . So the next step , step 10 . Technically it's maintenance , but he says watch out for fucked up thinking and behavior and be honest when it happens . So I really like the way his sponsor does this , because he does like a um , a check-in every night . Did I do anything today ? That doesn't align with my values ?
Speaker 1Now , and there have been times you know this , his sponsor is a lawyer there have been times like he lied to a client about not being able to see them because he had another lunch scheduled , but he really didn't , he just made up an excuse and he'll like go and he'll call the client and be like I'm really sorry , I actually didn't have something scheduled I can get you , you know , like , because that's how much it felt , like that shame and that guilt , that's how much it fucks with you .
Speaker 1So like um , being honest about your behavior and fixing it immediately . And I think Jason has gotten really good at that Like , even like if we're fighting and he says something out of pocket , like , and we both have like I've said it too , Like I'll say something out of pocket and be like I'm really sorry , that was low blow , you know , but like just making sure that , like you're maintaining the integrity and the values that you want to maintain . Like don't slip off the beaten path . Like make sure that you're being honest with people that you love , make sure you're doing the right thing , um , and when you're not , just fix it . It's that simple . You don't have to beat yourself up over it , just just fix it . So , in healing , too .
Speaker 2I like that you brought that up , because I feel like that's something that I could totally work on . It's hard .
Speaker 1Yeah , it's hard yeah .
Speaker 2Apologizing is really , really , really difficult . Yeah , yeah , especially to your partner it really is .
Speaker 1I feel like that's where it's the hardest . It's the hardest . Where it's the hardest , it's the hardest . We went through like a whole year where he was like you never apologize , and I'd be like , yeah , because I apologized for so long and fuck you , I'm not apologizing . I don't , you don't deserve apologies . And now I'm like I'm sorry , it takes a while , yeah , to get to a place . Yeah , I remember he said something like you know , if you yell at the kids , you don't apologize . I was like , actually I do , I do . If I'm not fixing it immediately , then it's fixed at bedtime and you just don't see it . Yeah , but I really do apologize to the kids and most of the time it's crazy because I'll go and I'll be like I'm really sorry , I yelled at you earlier and Austin will be like when .
Speaker 2I'm like oh , that's okay , that's who I find easy to apologize to the kids . Yeah , it is , and I think that's because I was that kid who never got apologized to , so now it's easy for me to do it because I don't want to be anything like that .
Speaker 1Yeah , but then when it comes to a partner , different ball games , it's so hard and I think we should maybe like even talk about that in an episode , how hard it is to apologize . I think for me in my situation , I always apologized first because I didn't want to sever that connection and I was that people pleaser . So apologizing coming out of that era was like a new learned thing , like I had to learn how to apologize and before it was apologizing in a manipulative way , not because I was sorry for anything , but because I was , I'm sorry , I got mad , I want attention no fuck .
Speaker 1No , I shouldn't have been a . Sorry that I got mad Like you were out doing God knows what , leaving me alone with kids and not calling me back Like I should have been mad . I'm not going to apologize for that shit anymore , right ? So , yeah , learning how to apologize and mean it yeah Was a journey for me . Yeah , so it's . It's hard , it's fucking hard , your hives are wild right now Are they .
Speaker 2Yeah , I don't know why Are you nervous ? No , okay
Healing and Transformation Steps Discussion
Speaker 2, good .
Speaker 1Maybe because I'm talking about this shit that like used to happen and it's like yeah , body keeps the score .
Speaker 2You know when people are like oh , I just sent an email to my boss holding my boundaries , and then they have a glass and they're like , even though they're like trying to be strong , they're just inside . It's like I . This is the dog I have in me and it's like a little chihuahua shaking listen , I can talk about this stuff now .
Speaker 1I don't feel like I'm getting hives , but , yes , like this stuff is really hard for me . Okay , um , the step stay connected to your new perspective . So basically , just like , stay in line with your values . Like remember your higher calling I don't even like saying higher , higher self like who you want to be . Like remember to to stay in line with the values of the person that you want to be , um the role model being yourself . Like make sure that you're staying in line with that . So the last step is look at life less selfishly . Be nice to everyone and help people if you can . Now in AA , it's service . Service is all about action . The stage is the rest of your life and involves implying everything you learned in AA to help build a brighter future for yourself . Now I'm gonna take that and remove it from the AA . They talk about this in AA a lot because they're like once you've gotten through the steps , you can be of service to other people , but you have to get through the steps first .
Speaker 2So it's like Jason's sponsor . Yes , like how he was an addict . Yes , jason's sponsor . Yes , like how he was an addict yes , Healed himself .
Speaker 1Yes , Then became a sponsor to then help Jason , yes . And so Jason , now that he's through with this , I don't think he'll ever be a sponsor because he's kind of um , I don't want to say removed himself from the AA model , but it's just a very restrictive model and we can go into that in another episode . I just don't . They talk about all these things , but they don't give you enough tools . They think that this is the only tool you need , and I don't agree with that . So , with these 12 steps , I don't agree that these are the only steps .
Speaker 1It might be steps for someone who needs something tangible , but there needs to be tools , and there are no tools in what I've seen . There might be in other chapters . I'm not saying there aren't , but when you are removing yourself from a substance or a drink or and you are having to learn to sit with your feelings without numbing , what are the tools that are going to help you do that in a safe way ? Like do you have grounding techniques ? Have you tried breath work ? Do you meditate ? Do you talk to a therapist ? Like are you , do you have these tools that you can revert back to so when things get hard . You're not like itching for a drink or drugs or whatever it was . That was your choice of .
Speaker 2And , like for us , I feel like you know we , we will do mushrooms a heroic journey once a year , maybe every nine , ten months or whatever . But then there are also things I do every day , yeah , literally every day , yeah , that I have to keep up with right and that could even be learning to say no to somebody , I don't know . Yeah .
Speaker 1Yeah , in a nice way , in a soft way . Well , and Jason meditates every morning Like , so does Tony . He does his cold showers in the morning . So does Tony .
Speaker 1He doesn't do ice baths but like he probably would if we had one , but like he will do a cold . I hear him in the morning every morning . I'm like I can't do it , bro . I can barely like wash my conditioner out with cold hair I mean with cold water , like I try . So he has tools in his toolbox on top of these steps , yeah , um , yeah . So that's the steps to healing and transformation .
Speaker 1I love that and I really like the last step being of service . Um , I have like a shortened version of it , like that's like when you like reach your transformation or your awakening phase . I really like that , yeah , and it doesn't mean that you're enlightened or you're . So your little bracelet . So I made this bracelet for j Jason when he started AA , because it has um a crystal for each step . Um , and the last two crystal or the last set is like um a quartz . That stands for transformation , because it's like you get to there and then you're like all like a pretty crystal .
Speaker 2I love that .
Speaker 1That's so sweet um , so , yeah , I I gave this bracelet to someone a couple of weeks ago off of my wrist . I had one on my wrist and I was like I've never made it for people , like I've always . I made one for Jason , I made one for me . I've never sold it , I've never made it for anybody and I was like I feel like you need this more than I do and don't take it for , don't like take it for what it's worth to you , but like it doesn't necessarily have to be aa steps . Yeah , this is a journey of transformation yeah , where can people get the bracelet ?
Speaker 2oh , you want me to sell my ?
Speaker 1shit , yeah , um , we , I have an estee shop where I make crystal bracelets and stuff and I think that this is like maybe my sign that I need to start doing that again , because I kind of took a break for a little bit and I still take orders . But I really like the idea behind this one because it just reminds you that like this is also not linear and healing is never linear and you're never done , and so once you get to that like transformation phase , like there might be something else that comes up in your life where you feel powerless and you're going to have to go through all these steps again , that self-reflection part of it is huge . Like how many things have you and I gone through literally since we started this journey ? And it feels daunting at the time and then we get through it . We do our steps . We don't , but we do . We did them without even knowing we were doing them . What role am I playing in this ?
Speaker 2the apology tours like yeah anyway , I think it's really cool okay , you should get this book , I will puff puff pass .
Speaker 1All right , I have been , I've had this game for fucking years and never played it , because I don't smoke enough to play . I don't smoke at all and I also feel like if I played this as a real smoking game , I would be silent the entire time , like I would be in a corner completely silent . But I love this game . It's called Puff Puff Pass and you play it with your friends while you're high . But as I started looking through them , I was was like we don't have to be high to play this I mean we microdose .
Speaker 1that counts , yeah , totally counts . So I'm gonna pull a card for you , okay . Okay , that one's dumb you , I'm a fine one , okay , okay , this isn't , this isn't like . Okay , you know what . You go first , you're going to like . You go first , just pick a card .
Speaker 2Oh , not trivia .
Speaker 1No , don't do trivia . You do like the blue ones , or the red ones , I think .
Speaker 2Yeah , you're definitely going to have to cut some of this . I can do that , oh my god . Okay , who ? Oh , these are no . Who would be the most ?
Speaker 1likely to survive a zombie apocalypse , and why ? Out of me and you , I guess , out of me and you , yeah , to survive that's hard . You know why that's hard ? Because I feel like we would To survive . That's hard . You know why that's hard ? Because I feel like we would both survive and I feel like we have different skill sets .
Speaker 2We absolutely do . Okay , so how about this ? What would your skill set be in a zombie apocalypse ? Oh , what would you bring to the table ?
Speaker 1bitch , and then what would I bring to the table ? That's a really tough question . I just feel like I would survive . I would be really good at making friends with people who have other skill sets is what I would do . I would be really good friends with the gardener . I would be really good friends with the people who had all the firearms . I'm just a friendly person . You'd be really popular .
Speaker 2I would just be really popular and everybody would be nice to me . Okay , so then , what would my strength ? Be , you'd be the fighter , I would literally be fighting .
Speaker 1Yeah , I'd be behind you the whole time .
Speaker 2You would have a shield . You would have a shield , you'd have a shield and you'd be like you're doing great sweetie it's not a fighter .
Speaker 1Okay , my cheek hurts . I've been thinking about that , though . Like I don't have a skill set . Like what do you want me ? Like you want me to ? Like help , help you find your inner child . Like we're in a zombie apocalypse . Like there's not much that can help you with . Like really can I ?
Speaker 2ask you another one . Yeah , no , I don't like that . If you had to tattoo one fact about yourself on your forehead , what would it be ?
Speaker 1A fact about myself on my forehead . Oh God , oh God , okay , there is this makeup artist that I follow who has a tattoo on her face , and it's under her eyebrow , and the word . I had to Google what the word meant , and I cannot remember what it was now , but I would get that word tattooed on my forehead . It is like it , the meaning behind the word . I was like , oh , that's what that means . It means , like being so afraid of your potential , because you know that it's going to be like like absurd , like you have like so much potential , being afraid of your own power , being afraid of your own , like inner person . I'm going to have to find this word , because I have been following her for a while and I've always wondered what that tattoo means . I want to go back to the zombie apocalypse thing , though , because , like , honestly , how you know what I could do . I could help people process their pain and trauma .
Speaker 2We don't have time .
Speaker 1We're in a zombie apocalypse Well maybe sometimes , when we're sitting in the farmhouse like waiting for another wave of attack , like you know , and there's somebody in the corner like quivering and crying , I would be like how do you feel ? Let's talk about it , let's get that out , let's work on some somatic movements to get all this trauma out of our bodies .
Speaker 2What is your favorite conspiracy theory ?
Speaker 1Oh , oh , it's a big one , mk Ultra , and that ain't a conspiracy theory . Some people think it is true . True , some people think it is true . And this shit that is attached to it , because there's so much more attached to it than I think people realize , like the Unabomber is attached to it , much more attached to it than I think people realize , like the Unabomber is attached to it . And Dahmer and not Dahmer , who's the ? Who's the guy who had , like , the followers in prison ? Oh , charles Manson . Yeah , there we go . He was attached to it .
Speaker 2My turn .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , yeah . You've asked enough . I know you've asked enough . Oh God , if you had unlimited money , but you could only buy two things . That start with your first letter of your last name .
Speaker 2What would they be ? Aquaphor . Oh , you're okay . Okay , aquaphor goes okay oh god , okay um an amanita mushrooms , okay Um .
Speaker 1That's actually a really good one , okay , okay , okay . I've got two good ones . Number one are we in a simulation ? Oh God . I think I feel like yes but I don't think in the way that people think that we're in a simulation .
Speaker 2So what do you think ?
Speaker 1I just I think that , like everything and nothing is real , and I don't think that there are , like I don't think we're in like a video game type simulation .
Speaker 2Everything and nothing matters .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah . Wow . So profound , but no , I do think that there are like higher powers doing things and controlling things that we're not aware of , and I think that sometimes people have access to that and sometimes they don't . And it really makes you think that , like what you just said , like nothing really matters , but everything matters , yeah , and what's all this for anyway ? Like what are we doing this for anyway , if we're just going to die and come right back , like , and learn another life by going through another level ? Like it's crazy when you really start to think about it .
Speaker 1Yeah , okay , and then one last debate question is artificial intelligence , something we should embrace or be afraid of .
Speaker 2Um , I think it'll be a little bit afraid of really , yeah , yeah , what's that ? One movie Um Meryl Streep , um where she's like the president don't look up .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , are you sure wait ? No , I'm thinking of a movie with like uh , I'm blanking on all my names , got Leonardo DiCaprio in it no , okay , I don't know what I'm thinking of , um , but yeah , I think I think a little .
Speaker 2I think I think there are good things , but I think the way that it's going , I'm like are we gonna get wiped out ?
Speaker 1I have a husband in tech who is very afraid of where it's going ai scares me a little bit . It's a little bit terrifying but it's , I think it's terrifying yeah , I agree , I , I am like you watch that movie like makina x or machina . Oh , I'm butchering so many fucking things right now what are you talking about ?
Speaker 1it's like a movie about like a robot who , like ,
Rituals of Coming of Age
Speaker 1starts feeling sentient . And what's that movie that ? Or it was like a series on h ? Um , something about the wild West . They would go out there and like it was like art , it was like robots and stuff and they would interact with them . Yeah , it freaks me out . Until they started feeling things and then they started fighting back .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , no , it freaks me out .
Speaker 1It was based on like a movie , but yeah I it's not long and there have been rumors that have been like immediately removed from the Internet , where people have had proof that , like their AI is becoming sentient and feeling things and feeling emotions , and people who are like big up in the tech world are being silenced about it . So it's a little bit scary .
Speaker 2Yeah , OK . Well , can you ask me one more thing ? That's like lighter and funnier .
Speaker 1Oh yeah , okay Okay .
Speaker 2I don't want to end on that , no .
Speaker 1Okay , what pastime is far and away the best to do when you're high ?
Speaker 2Dude , this is from my Roman Empire . We just said it . Yeah , I love getting high and watching some bravo and diagnosing those narcissistic , sociopathic motherfuckers yeah , this is like some deep dives .
Speaker 1I have one more , because this is really funny . Okay , you are the leader of a new society , rich . Which ritual must every 18-year-old complete in order to become an adult ? I feel like this is so easy for me .
Speaker 2Okay , what would you say ?
Speaker 1Really yeah , you got to go on a journey . Oh yeah , Go on a sabbatical , go to the jungle , do some ayahuasca , go do some mushrooms when you turn 18 , like , go find yourself . Yeah , that's a very good one . I think that I don't even think that that's a funny thing , like I think you absolutely should .
Speaker 2I was trying to think of something funny , oh , but I don't . I don't know what that would be okay , yeah , I don't either . Yeah , no , that's a good one I would say with that um , you have to study and learn about , and I don't know how , I would like whatever , but you'd have to learn and study about other things that you weren't taught or conditioned to believe . Yeah , I agree with that to become more of a critical thinker .
Speaker 1I think far more people at the age of 18 are pushed into college in a career that they end up hating and a life that they didn't want for themselves , but other people in society and their family religion get married , have kids , yeah , and we're like one of the only cultures that doesn't have rituals into adulthood .
Speaker 1Like it's . It's embarrassing really . We lack culture . We we really do . Yeah , like it's sad , but think of all the . There are so many rituals with birth and death and coming of age and marriage , and it's like we don't have any of that . Like , when my kids turn 18 , I don't want them to go straight into college and straight into careers . I want them to figure out who they are without all the noise .
Speaker 2I don't know if you know Gary Vee , but I know , yeah .
Speaker 2So he's like a entrepreneur , gives a lot of like business advice . He always says like you're not an adult if your parents are paying for all the shit that you do . If you want to have your own opinion , then figure out a way to , like , provide your own life , like , but , um , but he . He talks about like I would . Instead of my kid going to college , I'd rather give them money to travel the world for six to nine months . Yeah , see all different cultures , different people .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2Different philosophies , different ways of living .
Speaker 1Different religions , different upbringings , all of it different cultures for sure . Yeah , that's a . That's a really beautiful thing . Um , yeah , I want that for my kids . I wish I had that at 18 . Okay , all right . Great episode Um , we'll add our . We'll add my um Etsy link in the bio if anybody wants to . Transformation bracelet Um , and we hope this helps . Stay curious , be open . We'll see you on the other side .
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