See You On The Other Side

71 | There's Something About Sam...Part Deux

• Leah & Christine • Season 2 • Episode 71

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Annnnnd we're back with Sam for part 2! Catch us mid convo at the beginning while we candidly discuss a scary situation from Sam's past, as it leads us to wondering why men grapple with feelings of inadequacy and doubting their self-worth. Join us for a deep, insightful discussion with our guest, Sam Powers, a trained primal questions coach. We dissect the origin of these insecurities, tying them to childhood traumas, and how to identify and heal those deep wounds that leave us questioning our self worth, purpose, and more. Seeking help is often difficult, but it isn't a sign of weakness, it's a step towards change.

Sam answers a few questions we had from our listeners. From expressing fears in relationships to wrestling with self-confidence, we explore the connection between confidence and work fulfillment. We navigate the pressures of a success-oriented culture, discussing how it propels us to seek external validation, and our personal experiences of career realizations birthed from feelings of inadequacy. We also shed light on the implications of being a highly sensitive person (HSP), advocating for cautious consumption of physical and emotional inputs on our journey to well-being.

The conversation extends to Sam's experience with the healing power of ketamine therapy, the importance of apologies, and the transformative potential of different therapy forms. Finally, we discuss the journey of self-discovery, the power of inner child work, and the importance of showing ourselves grace on our healing journey. Don't miss out on this enlightening conversation. SO good, we had to book him twice.


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Speaker 1:

You know it's. If I could go back and even have the most basic tools to be able to support my wife. I mean, and I'm just going to say I was so scared, I was so ridiculously scared as a husband. And you know, as per our previous you know conversation about being this provider, this protector and all that stuff, I remember my wife called me from work and she goes hey, I'm going to the hospital Now.

Speaker 1:

At that time Chrissy worked at a treatment house in Orange County. I literally got into my van, I drove straight there, I got to meet her at the art and Placentupravia is. It's very hard because when that, when the placenta moves and tears a little bit, there's blood. I mean there is, there is more blood than I could ever imagine and I just, I remember just hoping that everything was going to be okay, you know, you know, and everything was bed rest, was a whole thing. But if she got up too long, you know she could start bleeding again. And I can tell you some of my behavior was just that I was so terrified and so scared I didn't know what to do. I literally didn't know what to do.

Speaker 2:

So what did you do in that moment? Like how, how did you handle it?

Speaker 1:

Oh, I probably didn't have enough grace. I probably didn't have enough grace, empathy and softness, and because I think, I think, when you don't have that language, you're trying to intellectualize and I could I? And I mean I listened to the last episode and I was like, oh, jason and I have very similar experiences of intellectualizing our spirituality, our healing, and I was like I know all this very well and it's very hard Because so much of it comes from our childhood.

Speaker 2:

And do you think men want to? It's like men are trying to solve it. So if they can't solve it, then they like they don't know what to do.

Speaker 1:

Okay, I literally just got off a discovery call because I do this primal questions coaching and I just I met with a gentleman in South Africa. He's very successful and his primal questions that we have like seven, they're like our childhood wounds and his is am I good enough? And he's provided all of this value to his organization that he works with and he's just like I just don't know. He goes like get passed over promotions and I said I said first off, you are good enough. I said but you don't know, you don't believe that. I said so if we work together, I am going to help you embody that so that you won't get passed up for promotions, you won't get passed up in life. And he's married and I was just like, oh my gosh, you are good enough, you just don't know it.

Speaker 3:

Or you don't believe it and you it's hard to believe something if you have never. I don't know, I don't know. I think about that like the not good enough thing. I think hits for a lot of men especially. It hits for women too Like in different ways.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

So, like I'm trained in this, it's called the primal questions, coaching, and what it is is there's seven primal questions and there I'll read them off because you, all of us in this healing space, will fully relate. And it's am I safe, am I secure, am I loved, am I wanted, am I successful, am I good enough and do I have a purpose?

Speaker 3:

Shit. This is why we needed him back. Welcome back, Sam.

Speaker 1:

I'm so happy to be here.

Speaker 3:

I think a lot of our listeners are excited that you're back too, but I was wondering about that because I'm not going to lie. After our chat I immediately got on your site and looked at how to book a discovery call and I'm like all right, stalker.

Speaker 2:

No, I'm kidding, I'm kidding, I'm kidding.

Speaker 3:

Totally. And I'm like how do I convince my husband that this might be something he could totally?

Speaker 2:

look into. That's funny because we have similar stories, it's so weird, how that happens.

Speaker 1:

Can you believe it?

Speaker 3:

It's a weird synchronicity right there and he also doesn't. He doesn't listen to our podcast, so he would really like have no idea, like what we talked about.

Speaker 1:

I know it's okay.

Speaker 3:

I'm okay with it, I've come to terms with it. I send him what's necessary, I send him what's important and if there is an episode I think that like he could benefit from or something in it would help him, I am like you should listen to this one.

Speaker 1:

I don't you know, Well, and I you know, I listened back to our interview and after listening to the one you guys just released, I was like and I want to say this in a in a not bad way Jason's not special, he's not unique. Do you know how many times I've said that to him?

Speaker 3:

And I know exactly what you mean and I've had to, like when I say it, like when he is like I, maybe I'm just too fucked up, and I look at him and I'm like you are not that special, that you are the only person who can't be fixed. That's not. You are not an anomaly Like this is not like. You know what I mean and I've said it in that exact same way where I'm like you're not that broken, you're not too broken. Nobody is too broken or too fucked up. You know, but I think so many people think they are.

Speaker 1:

Well, that is I, that is our own ego, that is our ego. And is, you know, when you do any kind of healing work, any kind of coaching, any kind of thing I mean even when I've worked with my own coaching clients I'm like, listen, your problem's not unique. I hear this over and over and over again. You're not this special like case where you're unreachable or that your pain is unique. This is the same. This is why I do the coaching I do. It's the same primal wound and primal question all of us walk around with, and the sad part is that some people never realize it.

Speaker 1:

And this primal wound or this primal question that you, I, all of us carry, jason, it's actually because of that wound. Our gift is the flip side of that. So we are creating safety. So, like, for me and like, my primal question is am I safe, am I secure? They kind of go hand in hand. Well, my gift is that when people come to our house that are like I want them to feel at home, I want them to feel safe, I want them to feel like they can be themselves, I want to make sure that they have good food and like, if they want to sit on the couch and have a soft blanket or whatever I'm like. I want to make sure that they have what they need, because I'm secretly answering my own. Am I safe? And now I've just turned it like I am safe and I can provide this for you.

Speaker 3:

Wow, I'm really glad he's back on. We had some.

Speaker 1:

we had some questions like from oh, I saw the question box go up and I was like, oh, this is going to be it's going to be real good. You're ready. It's going to be real juicy. I hope I can speak from the heart on these questions, but that's all I have.

Speaker 2:

You'll do great.

Speaker 3:

But wait, before you ask the question. I do want to say, jason, if you do end up listening to this, I don't mean it that he's not special in that way and he knows that and I've said that. But I also think anybody can take what you just said and it's a universal truth, it is.

Speaker 1:

I tell my kids this I'm like I tell my kids you guys are special to us, you're special to the world, but your operating system is not totally unique. The way you see the world is special because it's unique to you. But a lot of our struggles- they're all the same. We all feel like we're not good enough. We all feel like am I doing this right? And now I realize no one knows what they're doing anymore.

Speaker 2:

The human experience is a bitch. Well, before he got on, I remember.

Speaker 3:

I was telling you, like that person was like okay, but I had this experience, and I had this experience and I had this experience. I'm like yes, also I have to, so have I and so have other people. That's a completely different situation, but sorry.

Speaker 1:

And honestly, I think what makes us special is how we choose to learn from the experiences that we have, thus creating new ways to connect in love with other people. It's our gift. It is our gift.

Speaker 3:

I love that, all right.

Speaker 1:

It's just about. It's about reaching one person Girl. I already clipped it. Oh, you did.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, of course you did. Okay, all right Question time. Okay Quiz time.

Speaker 1:

Oh, oh gosh, All right, let's get into it.

Speaker 2:

A little Q and A. Okay, what is your biggest advice for men who feel that they have lost their confidence?

Speaker 1:

Oh, this is. This is a tricky one. And now we're talking like confidence in the workplace, or are we talking confidence in life? Are we talking?

Speaker 2:

I don't know.

Speaker 3:

I don't know it's just general confidence, is what the question?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and it's from a female.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so I don't know if she's asking for her partner or, you know, a loved one or what.

Speaker 1:

Okay. So here's, here's my take on that. When you, when a man, feels like they've lost their confidence, it means the way that they are doing life isn't serving them anymore, because they've hit a plateau. They they've reached this place where it's like, hey, what was working is no longer working, and that's.

Speaker 1:

There's this horrible time for most men to kind of go oh, what do I do Like? Am I doing this right? Am I? You know what I was doing a year ago? I feel like it's not sparking joy, it's not, I'm not getting into it.

Speaker 1:

And I, honestly, my coach and client reached out to me this morning and he goes hey, I feel like I don't know what to do now. And I said lean into that liminal space and learn from why you're feeling this way. So if your husband's feeling like I'm not confident anymore, it's like it's okay, I think it's actually really healthy to go. I don't know, and there is different levels of depression, anxiety, some are situational, some are biological, and I really think that as and I'll speak to the partner at this sometimes you just have to let them feel this lack of self confidence, because for us men, we will be able to live in that like kind of crappy space for a while, but then there's going to come a point where we get so broken that we go Okay, now we need to need to reach out for help, and I think what it is is it's a lack of confidence is literally a sign for me that, like, what serve do you then does not serve you for the future.

Speaker 3:

I feel like I'm really beating up on Jason here, but I just want to relate this back. I hope he listens to this and doesn't hear this this way. But last year he had that moment where he was like plateauing in his job, in his career, yeah, and what I think men especially see. I feel like I'm beating up on men in general and you guys know I'm not and I don't have to explain that I'm not but I think when they feel this type of way, they either learn to suppress it or they suppress it or they numb it or they run from it because they're like I don't like this feeling and I think what's really important is that you go towards it and sit with it and try to understand it.

Speaker 3:

So when my husband was going through this, he was of sober mind, he had better coping skills, he was able to sit with it and then had this ginormous realization that he was not happy in his career anymore and that's why he was getting passed up with promotion passed up in promotions and not exceeding the way that he thought he should have been and had this major. I was talking to Chrissy about this I don't know if she told you this but had this realization that he was in the wrong career and should have done something different, and he immediately started down the next path. I was like, okay, now that you know this, you know you're unhappy in your career. You wish you had done this. What's next?

Speaker 1:

So it's, and I'm gonna, since we're using Jason for myself it's okay, because our intimate partners are like our greatest teachers besides our kids. Really, you know, I hold up the mirror of, like, what my partner is coming up short with, like her own shortcomings. She does the same thing for me and it's interesting because, like, when you really think about your lack of self confidence, especially in Jason, any man it's grief. It's a grief of that. Your internal expectations, the work that you thought would reward you, or the intention behind you did that work. Wow.

Speaker 1:

So what you're doing and I try to explain this to my oldest who's, you know, 11 and I said listen, don't chase what you think you're going to make a lot of money in, because the whole world, I mean, all we have to do is we're surrounded by this. Do something that you find rewarding and then the money will come, Because the real wealth in this life is this community relationship, spending time being present. And you know, with Jason, yeah, he probably hit a place in his career and he was just like it's just putting all that extra work in from his own expectations. Yeah, and that resulting depression is the grief. It is the grief that your expectations were placed in the wrong place.

Speaker 3:

That's 100% accurate. So I will say, whoever wrote that, like from the other side of it, it's very different when now that he's working towards something, that's a lot more rewarding. And that was another thing I sat he sat with two is like he went to where the money was and he went to what was easiest. He went to what he was good at. There was no other reason than like this is easy, it makes good money, works for me.

Speaker 1:

And I'm going to just say, generally, most men do that. Yeah, I'm guilty of that, we all. Because to when you live in a culture that is focused on the quickest way to success, or visible success, I'm going to use that visible, visible, what is shown like the nice house, the nice cars, the lifestyle yeah. When we live in a culture, that that is the reward, like that is the standard that we are held against. How would we not naturally go there, especially if that was the messaging for your entire life?

Speaker 3:

Right yeah.

Speaker 1:

How many, how many flame out stories do we know of, like people just getting to the peak? Well, the problem is, is then, when you're at the peak of whatever your career, whatever it's like, I'm still me, I'm still me. Oh my God, I cannot escape me. Yeah Right, that's why we do so much like, that's why we do the work.

Speaker 3:

Those external factors are not. They don't cut it. They might cut it for a little bit, but you're going to get to a place where you would just feel like it's not enough.

Speaker 2:

I think about, like I think about my stepdaughters. I have one stepdaughter that's in college, I have another one that is a senior this year, and the conversations that they are having with teachers, guidance counselors, it's and so this is their thought process, which I'm trying to talk to them to is like what am I good at what? What? What's going to make me a lot of money? What can I tolerate in school?

Speaker 1:

Mm, hmm.

Speaker 2:

Those that is their way of thinking, instead of like this is something that I, like, really enjoy and, you know, feel like I have purpose and it it rejuvenates me or whatever. They don't think that they're because they're, they're trying to go, they're trying to fit in the box.

Speaker 1:

And the box is the patriarchal culture that we were all born into. So we cannot escape this Bullshit box Love that and the thing is is so much of how we operate is subconscious. That's why doing all this work and like really getting intentional and even trying capturing the way that we are doing things and how many times have you driven home and not been paying attention Like it's muscle memory? I'm sorry.

Speaker 1:

That's why it's like so hard to, it's so hard for to teach youth to, which is even harder because, they're so pliable and honestly it's kind of a gift that they think they know it all, because it really is, because I'm like man, this is great. I told my 11 year old this morning. He was moody all and I was like I was like, hey, man, I guess you know it all. I'm. I'm so glad, you know. But if I, I'm here if you need help. But you can't talk to us this way, you need. No, I'm so glad.

Speaker 2:

Oh man, okay, next question. Okay, in the last episode you said you were an HSP man. How did you come to understand and embrace that?

Speaker 1:

Okay, this is great.

Speaker 3:

Also add to that what HSP means, because some people might not know.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so an HSP is a highly sensitive person. When I reflect now in my past, I when I was a child and this is I had a lot of shame about this. Now I can air it out. I had what they call a gag reflex.

Speaker 3:

Okay.

Speaker 1:

And so, when I was a kid, certain smells would cause me to throw up.

Speaker 3:

Wow.

Speaker 1:

Coming to know somatics now I would get and since I had anxiety, I'd always get terrible stomach aches. Well, guess what they call the? Your stomach, it's the second brain. So if you're not taking care of your stomach, you're internalizing that stress in your stomach, and so that's what I.

Speaker 1:

I claim to realize that now you know it's like and you say it's my chakra, whatever, but it was the part of me that was uncomfortable with certain things. And then we create this sensitivity response Wow. And so when I would get stressed in my teens and twenties, I would get these gnarly stomach aches, not knowing you know. And now I have, you know, on this side of life, I'm like, oh, that was highly sensitive. My emotional place, my secondary emotion, would be in my stomach. And so, being an HSP, like I'm very careful with what I eat, now you know you take care of my gut health, even when I cook and do even buy snacks for my kids, I'm really cautioned like, hey, if you're not taking care of, like, what you put in your body, your body's going to react to this.

Speaker 2:

We're just talking about this.

Speaker 3:

But it's physical and mental too.

Speaker 1:

Right Like it is what you consume physically and emotionally.

Speaker 1:

Yes, and I think so, like my middle, my middle son is probably got a little of the HSP. So he was on a soccer team and when we would go to games he would almost have a panic attack and he's like, I don't like when people are yelling at me and I was like, oh so he has this sensitivity and it's like an antenna. And now when his attempt, like when he's taking in all this external stimuli and he's getting over, I'm like that's his sensitivity. All right, we got to, we got to leave, we got to move.

Speaker 1:

I didn't have that, I just tolerated it for a very long time, which comes out in all kinds of different ways. You know stomach issues, you know anxiety, panic attacks, and so as an HSP, the world can be very loud. It can be very loud, it can be very dangerous because of just the external stimuli. And so now, when you understand that I can go, I think I'm going to sit this crowd out or I think I'm going to. You know, not eat that you know with what people are doing, you know, and, and I think when I coped with alcohol, I think a huge part of that coping is that it was that numbing of sensitivity.

Speaker 2:

It's interesting that you're saying that, because I'm kind of realizing, just listening to you talk, that my four year old son is very similar. Yeah, so like we made the mistake of we put on the Lion King and I think he was barely to and I didn't even think about it and it's, it goes to the gets to the part where Vasa dies.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I know.

Speaker 2:

And even now, 36, like, like, my, like. It gives me a pit in my stomach when he he dies, because I'm like, no, but he looked at us and he just looked at us and he would, he just, and I didn't think he would get it because he he's never seen or been around death, he's never experienced death, and he was like traumatized. And then we're like, oh no, and then we go to a Paw Patrol movie and there's nothing scary, there's nothing like it's Paw Patrol, but there were a lot of Paw Patrol.

Speaker 2:

There was. There was a part where one of the dogs was like the runt of the litter and like gets abandoned.

Speaker 3:

Oh.

Speaker 2:

And he there were three times in that movie he just cried and it was because he was just, he was sad. And even this morning I was kind of getting on him because I was like guy, put your shoes on, guy, put your shoes on, put your shoes on. We got to go to school, we're in a rush, we're in a rush and he just looks at me. He goes Mom too loud, too loud, and you know, he goes into rooms and he covers his ears and I'm like I'm starting to like put two and two together. Like he's very sensitive to people, to environments, like he doesn't want to play soccer because there's too much going on and like how to navigate that as a little boy Because, again, especially little boys are taught to like, you know, toughen up, it's fine, like you're fine, get over it, like, and I'm trying not to do that.

Speaker 1:

I think, and so I've made all the mistakes with my kids.

Speaker 2:

I've made lots of mistakes. I'm we'll make plenty of mistakes I already have.

Speaker 1:

We apologize, but one thing that I think for me. But transitions, calm transitions are really important for kids that have any kind of sensitivity or any kind of you know neurodivergence, because that's the correct term. So I have two that are neurodivergent and Chrissy's also neurodivergent, and what I've learned to is that it takes an incredible amount of strength as a parent to go. This seems like not a big deal, but for your kid it's a huge deal.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And it's really hard because there are parts of me that I always want to be like, okay, tough it up, you know. It's like all right, we got this. But then I was like, well, if I force my kid to do something, he just totally hates and just doesn't. What a what a disturbance to him, you know, as an adult. And it's like it's one of those things where I'm like, oh my gosh, like he's going to remember that he got forced to do this forever and it's outside of his comfort, it's outside of his awareness and it's too much. And when you're that little, you know they're little kids living in a big world and that's, that's scary enough.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I forget that sometimes, so let me we all do. Let me ask you this with Chrissy being neurodivergent and then having two children that are also neurodivergent, yes, is that sometimes a struggle? Because for me personally, I sometimes struggle because I feel dysregulated and I feel overstimulated and then I have to be a calm nervous system to this little person when I'm barely like holding on by a thread.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and that's something I'm navigating and we are working. He's in occupational therapy and we are working on like transitions and I've learned a lot in this process so much, but it's still like I'm still navigating a lot of things myself.

Speaker 1:

I think and this is this is it's incredibly difficult because you have to continually remind yourself that they are seeing the world so differently than you are and that the system, your like way of doing life, your schedule, those things serve you. They don't always serve them. And the level of patience that it takes and I'm going to say I lose my patience all the time I just do because I'm also giving so much to our kids, to our partners, to our work, that ourselves we get over resourced. Where it's like when there's no gas in the tank and you still have to give, that's usually when I'm like losing it, because I'm just like I'm just wiped out and that's when I have to go.

Speaker 1:

All right, I'm sorry I was being a jerk, I am sorry that I had that tone of voice. The magic's in the repair and it's one of my favorite mentors is Terry real and he does couples work and he said you know, if you fall apart, you know or fight in front of your kids, you and your partner he goes repair in front of your kids. He goes because then our kids know that it's possible to repair. If you repair in private, all your kids are going to see is this fall apart and then never the journey back to each other.

Speaker 3:

That makes so much sense.

Speaker 1:

And that was like a light bulb for me and I was just like, oh my gosh, we are totally guilty of not repairing in front of our children whenever we have discourse.

Speaker 2:

Can you elaborate on some things that you guys do to repair in front of your children?

Speaker 1:

Physical hug, like hugs and, and the message you know it's like we'll apologize or we'll start talking in a better tone of voice. And then that physical connection, when your kids can physically see, because usually in conflict you're this far apart and one's going here, one's going there To repair, is to show you coming together, holding each other, telling each other that you love each other in front of your kids, because that might be the only model they see of repair ever.

Speaker 3:

Oh shit.

Speaker 1:

I because? Because, if you're, if it's their parents, we are to be the safe place, we are to be the ones showing them what relationship looks like. And if our words don't match our actions, how will they know? What a confusing message.

Speaker 3:

I'm going to bring up a random rando. My job on this show is on the random squirrel person. So a couple weeks ago I found a video, the video of my mom and I on Dr Phil, and this was like 11 years ago. Oh my gosh, and it's not on it, doesn't? It's not on streaming, like you can't go to, like you know Netflix and sign.

Speaker 3:

YouTube. It's on YouTube Every now and then it like it's deleted from YouTube. So it's like very hard to find the full episode because I'll find it and then, like a few months later it's gone. So somebody put it on YouTube, found it and I'm rewatching it. And you know, I have, in a way in the last year, made this reconnection with my mom.

Speaker 3:

There's a connection here. I'm rewatching it and there is a part where Dr Phil is asking her to apologize, or if she had apologized, and she's like, yeah, I did, I married the wrong person, I'm sorry, I married the wrong person, like putting it all on my dad. And he's like, well, that's not really an apology, that's, that's a justification and you know, and but in that moment I texted you. Do you remember this? I texted you that clip and I said you know, when people hear my story with Jason, and they're like, how the fuck did you stay that long and hearing my mom apologize that way, and I'm like, oh my God, he did that.

Speaker 3:

It was what I knew as an apology. My entire life was that kind of. Well, I'm sorry that you made me mad. Well, I'm sorry that you're too sensitive. Well, I'm sorry that I do this and this and this and you're not grateful. You know that's what I had heard my entire life. So when I married him and alcoholic, and those were the apologies I got, those were the apologies that I accepted because I didn't know what a true apology was, and that has been a learning curve for the both of us, because neither did he. He also didn't have that model growing up.

Speaker 1:

Well it's, it's interesting. I'm currently reading the myth of normal by Gabor, and I'm reading that too.

Speaker 1:

It's, it's a lot, it's a lot.

Speaker 1:

But what he said and this makes more sense in your, especially in your situation is that when you have like a level of discomfort and disconnection and chaos and you grow up in that, when you find an intimate partner that has that same dysfunction, it's like coming home because your, your nervous system, never had the say. Go back to the primal question Am I safe, am I wanted and I loved? It's comfortable, because that's what your body knew, because your body keeps the score, like that's why Chrissy does nonlinear movement and when you can move that trauma out of your body at a cellular level because we all hold trauma Big T, little T at a cellular level, when we move that out of our bodies, that's why I feel like when we heal, we can't tolerate anything else because our sensitivity level is coming back back up to this level. So our window of tolerance for chaos, dysfunction, disconnection, we don't know what to do with it and that's why we're just like the, the rage of Kali that makes you're bringing up your floor of tolerance to where it's supposed to be.

Speaker 3:

Holy shit.

Speaker 1:

And then you don't even know what to do with it, because and that's where you get, that's why you know, you get into rage, you get into anger. You, you, you don't have any. You know bandwidth or like there's no, you can't handle anything. It's because, literally, you're resensitizing your nervous system to where it was supposed to be when you were a kid, in a healthy relationship.

Speaker 3:

Holy shit, like that tolerance, like I say that. But hearing you describe it that way is so much easier to understand because I say like when I rage now, I never did that before and he's done horrible stuff in the past, so it just seems like the things he does now. I'm like that's what set me off. It doesn't even make sense that it does, but what you just said makes it make sense.

Speaker 1:

Well, it's like, all right, I had. I've had several friends pass away from overdoses. So when you get clean from opiates, we use opiates. When a normal user goes back to use again, they go back to the dose they left off on. Guess what their body has healed, it's brought. I mean I haven't drank in like over three plus years. I mean, jason, hasn't you know? If I were to have a single drink right now, my body would be like hold up what's going on? Because my body has resensitized and come back to homeostasis of our original, you know, body, and so it's. It's no different. What you're doing is, as you heal, you're bringing, you're coming back to home, you're coming back to the way that your body was supposed to be, or still heals. I mean that's when you do somatic. How many times have the ailments that you were suffering from go away?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we were, we were just talking, even, you know, we, we interviewed a functional practitioner, michaela, and then Leah and I started working with her and you know, my, my gut was all messed up. My hormone hormones were all messed up. Everything was bad. And so, you know, I did a lot of things to get myself into like a parasympathetic, sympathetic state to you know, lower my cortisol levels, but she's like I really think that you need to stop eating gluten, like I, like it's causing you inflammation, what, getting it out. Anyways, yeah, and so I did, and I have, and that's my lifestyle. But I was just telling her today if I, if I eat gluten now and I spent my entire life eating gluten, yeah, if I eat gluten, you got like a baby gut. Oh, I will look pregnant, I'm gonna. I'm just gonna say it. I'll probably poop my pants.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I get. I get so sick and I'm like I used to eat gluten every day. It wasn't a big deal, and now if I eat it, it's like my body's like now, bitch, we don't like this.

Speaker 3:

It doesn't work.

Speaker 2:

And it's wild, and so it's to me. I'm like it's not worth it, it's not worth me feeling like shit, it's not. So I just don't and it's just.

Speaker 3:

It's just my life now, but that's weird because we were just talking about that how I was like but you ate gluten before we did this, and you were just fine, but it's like, oh my God, it's the same with the emotional part.

Speaker 1:

So what I like to and I heard this analogy and it's it's super fascinating, and anyone who has even a hint of neurodivergence or have had a certain amount of trauma, you think of this as your body is like a Ferrari. Well, an exotic car takes a ton of maintenance and if you don't put the main it's into this exotic car, it's a piece of junk. It's an expensive piece of junk, it's the same thing. If you're not, you know it operates to a certain point. And then there's a point of no return where it's like I just can't ever get better. I'm not doing this better, I'm can't like what. What's going on in so much of it is is that our body is so miraculous that it can carry so much stress for so long, but there is always a tipping point of tolerance where it's like I can't go anymore. And it's diet, it's exercise, it's getting outside, it's basic things that our body needs, but we forget that in the name of productivity, success, striving and appearance, Shit.

Speaker 3:

Shit, the fact there have been so many signs and synchronicities today that have been just wild, yeah, like conversations we had before, and then it's coming up. Now it keeps. It's been happening to us all day. All right, what was the other question? We have another question. I love these. It's not as simple. Yes or no, jeez, okay.

Speaker 1:

There's no simple questions.

Speaker 2:

No such thing. Have you used psychedelics on your healing journey and if so, what and how?

Speaker 1:

So how? So here in the great state of California we have legal ketamine and I think I hinted at this on our last episode and so after after I did on site and I came back and I started on my healing journey, did a lot of, and I did the same thing that Jason did. It's like I tried to intellectualize my way out of spiritual bypassing.

Speaker 3:

And-.

Speaker 1:

Oh, that we talked about in the last episode.

Speaker 3:

Okay, I see.

Speaker 1:

I know this. I know this so well. I feel like we need to go visit. It's so funny because I am, you know, I'm a curious reader and so I just started diving in. I have a great therapist that I wouldn't be here without our therapist.

Speaker 3:

Is it Chrissy? I mean really.

Speaker 1:

I'm just kidding. You know what? We get that question a lot. I don't know if that one works. I can tell you no, and it wouldn't work, and no joke. I told her once I was like you're my partner, not my therapist.

Speaker 2:

I think that's true though.

Speaker 1:

I've heard that before.

Speaker 3:

I've heard that before. That's true, though it is true.

Speaker 1:

I think you can heal together, but you need to do your own individual work. And then in that individual work and this is why I want to speak on this when a husband or a wife or two partners start to get healthy, the one partner that's still like kind of behind the other one, because there's always one partner in front of the other. You know, the person that's out in front of that partner needs to have an incredible amount of grace and empathy for the person that's behind, because if you're critical of that other partner that they're not catching up, that will shut down that healing. And I say that because I hear this all the time, all of the time. And so I came back from on site. I finished our house, which was a feat, and I've never been more joyful to be completely unemployed, working on my own house. I got time to reconnect with my kids, went to therapy twice a month, did a ton of internal work and I think with talk therapy, you know, you get to certain plateaus where you're like okay, and there came a point where in my therapy journey with my talk therapist I finally was like I kind of feel like maybe I'm just come once a month now, you know, like kind of just to check in, just kind of decompress.

Speaker 1:

And in California ketamine therapy is still fairly new. As you guys know, it's a very new treatment for use and ironically, chrissy brought it up first and then she went and did it through FieldTrip, which is a legal ketamine therapy here. And we're talking, you meet with an advice nurse, an RN therapist, a licensed therapist. Then you go into the office, you do like three pre-meetings, you know you do a whole medical background check. You do all of this so, as women tend to heal first before the men, she comes. She's like I hadn't even finished our main house and she comes to me and she goes hey, I think I'm gonna do ketamine therapy. And I was like, cool, I'd listened to enough podcasts and you know a lot of different things. And they said, if you feel called to that, how am I gonna stop you? And it's because it's federally legal here and it's, I mean, everything is by the book. I was like, okay, they're gonna make sure it's safe, you're gonna be in a safe place, why not? So she did it. She had all these revelations and kind of it gave her a place to kind of let go of certain things that, as I know now about neuroplasticity, you can't always access some of these things through talk therapy or EMDR or lifespan integration. So she had this amazing experience and she's like you should go do it. And I was like I'm not ready. And I didn't feel ready and this is something that I think for this is my advice to anyone is that when you are ready, you will know.

Speaker 1:

And so I got through building our house, I did all that stuff, got us all moved in, everyone kind of went back to normal the world. But opened back up and I had I wasn't really getting as much out of my talk therapy as I wanted to, because I'm always hungry. If I'm gonna pay for something, I wanna be all in and just give it the best I can. And I remember this. There was just one day where it was like I think it's time Because I had this. There wasn't this question mark anymore. It was like I've never done anything like this. I think it's time.

Speaker 1:

And so I even I brought it up to my partner and I said hey, I think I wanna do this. And she was like finally, I'm like okay, okay, well, she was like so excited and I was like all right, and it just happened to fall on a weekend. She was out of town. So it was really beautiful because I called the clinic because there was one near us about 30 minutes away, and I said, you know, do you have any space? And they were like yeah, we actually have this day. And I was like perfect. So I did the intake, I met with the RN, I met with the whole team and so I I was, and I honestly I was nervous because it's a big deal, you don't know what you're going to see and be ready for. And I just remember in that moment I was like I guess the plane is gonna take off tomorrow and we're gonna see what happens.

Speaker 1:

There, you go, and this is why I'm also like the whole do it yourself one kits and stuff like that terrify me, and we can speak on that after.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I wanna get into that later.

Speaker 1:

And so I got a ride. You know I took an Uber down to the clinic because ketamine is a very powerful substance. It is no joke and I take as someone who you know coped with substances. I have the utmost respect for how powerful anything that can alter your state and I think having that as a respectful place is paramount to healing Even EMDR. Some of the you know brain spotting and some of those I've done EMDR. I couldn't drive after it because the I was so emotionally drained and that was sober. So this is a not a warning, but like heed this work in any way, because if you are not ready it could be the worst experience of your life.

Speaker 3:

Thank you for saying that.

Speaker 1:

I mean, and I mean that and I'm like a tough dude, whatever. But it was almost as if my body knew and my mind was like all right, I think you have enough of the sober therapeutic tools ready for this experience. The therapist was there. It was, I mean, the whole team is incredible. And I remember showing up to the clinic you do all this thing. And they're like, okay, are you ready? And I was like I don't know. And then I got are you afraid? And I was like no, I said, but I think it's okay to have a little bit of that, that cautiousness. Yeah, I mean, I don't know how else to explain it. And you know for me and I can share my intention, because they're like hey, what is your intention? I said my intention for this experience is just to return to the, for me to be the most authentic version of me.

Speaker 1:

Ooh that's a big one. Now, mind you, and for all the listeners, I've done 15 years of therapy, experiential therapy, at onsite EMDR. You know, I went to another healing place in in Abilene, texas, called the healing, the Gold Monarch Healing Center. We did all kinds of, you know, guided meditations, all that kind of stuff. So I've run, I've tried, I've meditated you name it I've tried almost all of it and I realized to like having those experiences not altered. It gives your, your mind, the tools that it needs to experience what's gonna come up.

Speaker 2:

I'm. I'm glad you said that, because we get a lot of messages where, let's say, you know, leah posted a video series of her ketamine treatments. We've talked about her heroic journeys with Syl Sybin. We've talked about, you know, doing MDMA with our partners as a form of, like, couples therapy, and so people take that sometimes and they run with it. They say, okay, I want to do that and I have to say okay, okay, okay, like again but I say you know, you know you something you really need to be ready for?

Speaker 2:

And they're like I'm ready, and then the more we talk to them they're not really doing the work. They don't really have good coping strategies, they have no support.

Speaker 3:

They have no support, they're not seen a therapist. Just came off meds for the first time in like a decade.

Speaker 1:

Those are all just like giant red flags.

Speaker 3:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

And I'm like yeah.

Speaker 3:

And so one after another like right and so it's.

Speaker 2:

I think they really do think that, but they don't necessarily know what that means. And so, having that conversation to be like you know, I really think that you need some support with a therapist first, before we even talk about doing a heroic journey.

Speaker 1:

And I think and this I'm going to speak on this because we live in a culture that praises hacking as an ideal let's get from point A to point B as fast as we can, in the most successful way we can, and you know we all do that. The thing is, is that a healing you can't hack? A healing journey you can't hack? Undoing a lifetime of operating at a certain way with trauma, carrying stress, carrying traumatic experiences inside you. You, you cannot do that fast because, as you both know, it's like even said it in the other podcast it's like it's like a layer and then another layer and then another layer.

Speaker 1:

And I think too it's about that journey of discovery is where really the healing starts and it gives you reverence for the experience. Yeah, because it's a journey of discovery and it's a journey of the experience. For the experience, because we're only, like we said in the last one, you're going to arrive when we die, that's it, and so you know for, because it's very sexy now for, like, psychedelic healing, I mean, and if you haven't seen the Netflix Michael Pollan series, you know how to change your mind. He's even very cautionary, like, hey, these are things of profound respect and there's no right answer in this, and so it's. It's very interesting because our culture has changed that where it's like I'm going to fix it right now, you know, and so for when I came to it, in my own experience, that was a good. You know, I've done 15 years of work to get to this point where I could feel comfortable navigating that subconscious space. Yeah, I mean, I don't know how else to just say be careful.

Speaker 3:

Let's just say you did 15 years of preparation to go into this experience, and it's not to say that like that, 15 years was leading to this, but like that 15 years was all prep work for this experience work and for every experience after this yeah, and I think we have to have profound respect for what that is, because that journey is really where the healing has happened.

Speaker 1:

And so for me, when I decided I made this decision to experience this, I remember they, they, you know, they do. I'm sitting there with a therapist and the RN comes in and they administer, you know, this medicine and they're like, okay, well, just want to warn you, as soon as you receive this medicine, it will come on very fast because it does, because in, in legal clinics it's done intravenously, it's not done through pill form, and so you have an IV. I had, like a heart rate monitor, I mean I had I'm hooked up to the machines, right, you're it's, you're like in a clinic probably the nicest medical clinic I've ever been into my entire life, you know. And I put on the eye mask and I'm sitting there with my therapist and he actually started the East Forest guided meditation for psychedelic practitioners.

Speaker 1:

I put the weighted blanking on and it was interesting because in about seven minutes I just found this profound sense of letting go and then, all of a sudden, what I would see. I just I was literally plummeting the depths and I felt like I was falling through, or what I was seeing was like a blue black oil painting with like a light flares, and I mean there's three phases, now that I've done enough research and I did plenty of research, and they they described what's going to happen. There's three distinctive stages that you go through and I just remember I just felt like I got buried in the earth and I was just there in that darkness and that abyss and it was interesting because for me, I was never scared. You do enough prep work. You're like, I kinda know what I'm in for, right.

Speaker 1:

And I just remember I felt like I kinda landed at the bottom of my soul, or however you wanna describe it, and I remember just being there and I was just like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. And I remember in a moment I saw my children, but I saw them of the essence, that they were part of me, which was such an incredible experience for as a father because for us dads, we kinda live outside of that connection that a mother has with their child and I just remember like, just like oh, my word, this is truly incredible and there was this overwhelming sense of reverence, of like, oh, my god, like I truly get the sense they are part of me. They're not just outside of me, but they are part of me, which was a gift in itself for any father, and that's something that we get kinda disconnected as dads or as men, and I saw Chrissy as Collie.

Speaker 3:

Oh, Collie.

Speaker 1:

Ma.

Speaker 3:

Wow.

Speaker 1:

That's awesome and so that was really interesting and I was just like whoa, this is so cool.

Speaker 2:

She's powerful.

Speaker 1:

She's a very powerful woman and for me, because I suffered from anxiety for so long, you know, as a kid, I just remember being in that space and you kind of you know, you don't really know what's going on, but I met up with the six year old version of me and I knew it was me. I mean it was as clear as day. I was like, oh, there's me. And I remember and I've done inner child work before but this is where for me it was like part of a breakthrough for me, because inner child work is so hard to see yourself at those ages. And I just remember, like seeing that little version of me and I was just like, oh my gosh, I mean I had, I was a total toe head as a kid, on her eyes and just that happy little kid. And I just remember, like going over and I was just like I got to tell you you don't have to be anxious, all the things that you worried about as a and I'm going to tear up because it's still so powerful. I remember I was like, listen, you're going to worry about this, you don't have to. And I remember like just going remember when you worried about this it didn't come true, like you don't have to live in that space, and it was. It was almost as if I was giving permission to my inner child that it was okay to experience those things, and that experience is what got me to this side. But, and I just was like dude, I'm so sorry, like you're going to worry about this, it's not going to come true, you're going to, you know, obsess over this. You don't have to. And so it was this interesting connection where I was just like dude, you don't have to worry about all these things that you are going to worry about, but you are going to worry about those and that's okay and that's that's inner child work, in a nutshell, of like reparenting yourself from that perspective. Yeah, and it's not easy, it's it's not easy, it's, it's incredibly hard.

Speaker 1:

And so I mean, I was just there with that six year old version of me and I was just like, and we had this just long conversation. It was just and I just remember just like having so much empathy for that little version of me. And then there was this and you know, with ketamine there are these certain phases it's a year like you're under for about 90 minutes, maybe two hours max, you know, because it starts to wear off pretty quick. And I just remember we it was almost as if we went through all the things that we struggled with and then we kind of got this point where I just looked at him, he looked at me and I was like, okay, we're good, we're good and what was really wild and this is, you know now, and I did this several years ago, so it's taken me still years to even explain, or, and there's probably parts that I miss.

Speaker 1:

But what was interesting is I remember we both looked at each other and then we were standing in in front of a grave site and it was my name and it was the date from 1984 to 2020. I think it was was it 2021 or 2022. And it was like we were standing in front of the that version of me that got us to this place, and we both were like I remember like giving my inner child a hug, wow. And then I remember just he gave me this smile which was just characteristic of me, and I looked at him, he looked at me and I just was like I'll see you again, but we don't have to do this anymore and this is cool.

Speaker 2:

Oh my gosh.

Speaker 3:

Inner child work is really hard, I think.

Speaker 1:

for people who are analytical and very logical, it's it doesn't make sense because it's all, it's all feeling, it's all it's all emotional, it's all soul. You know heart space work, and I just remember like walking away and you know, and I saw some other stuff. You know, I kind of came into this. You know the beautiful light that we just all hope to experience. And I remember I was so present in the moment that the therapist thought I was asleep and and he was like, and he was like they, they and they even will tell you like some people fall asleep and they're like we'll put it a hand on your shoulder or something. And I felt a hand and I was like I gave him.

Speaker 1:

I was like I'm not done. I literally was not done. I literally told and I was like, even in my subconscious I was like I need like a few more minutes, wow. And so I had this, you know, and I just had that sense of peace, like where, when you break through to a place where you can move through life Unencumbered, you know, and I just remember waking up and I just remember like Just that feeling of peace, of just like, oh my God, I did that work, that was so powerful. And then I came to. That's beautiful.

Speaker 3:

And you're never going to forget that.

Speaker 1:

How could you forget that I started, I mean, I started cheering up every time I and I've only told this. You know, I haven't told it to a lot, of, a lot of people because it just doesn't make sense sometimes, but in this space, you know, for the people that will listen, this makes sense. Yeah, and I just remember having this profound sense of like okay, you're okay, you can do hard things, we can move through this next season. And you know, I can always go back to that moment when things are really hard and just go okay, you got this, you're good, Things are going to be okay. Even if it's hard, it's going to be okay.

Speaker 3:

The whole safety thing of that. Like you know, it's it's legal technically, it's it's legal in across the US. It's used off legal. I think kind of what you were saying about like psychedelics being like trendy, trendy or I don't know what you said, but along those lines, sexy, sexy.

Speaker 2:

It's sexy. Herod doses are not sexy. There's to be the first one to share that Right.

Speaker 3:

Me drooling on myself crying, like that's not sexy, but I think it's interesting because I feel like I had a very safe experience, similar to yours, where the medicine was respected. The medicine was treated with reverence. It was we did a lot of integrate or prep work, like we had three sessions beforehand we did an intention setting session and then we had our post integration session and then hearing from people on tick tock and Instagram, that's like I just went to a clinic and they hooked me up to an icon. I didn't have a therapist and I'm like, oh my God, it just makes me sad and angry and I almost want it like that's not the same thing, even though it is, you know, and it's sad that that's what's happening.

Speaker 1:

Well, here's something we all, we all seek it. We all seek an escape from our reality. I mean, that's why addiction occurs, that's why consumerism, can you know, occurs. When I did this a while ago, I I didn't think it would fix me Because after my experience, I was still me, I was still home, I'm still the same person. But what it did is it just allowed me a perspective that allowed me to go. Oh, when this comes up, this, my reaction or my experience might be less.

Speaker 1:

And that single treatment, you know and I look at it as a treatment it's when I did EMDR. I mean, I was like EMDR, I remember like couldn't drive home because it was so intense, and it's the same kind of thing where it's like I don't need to do that again because, you know, I have, I've had friends who've done it multiple sessions and I think it really comes down to if you have a ton of trauma and you have a lot of pain that you cannot let go of, then yes, do multiple treatments. But I think it's more important is the integration post that experience, because that is where the habit and the healthy coping mechanisms and the healthy journey will keep moving you forward.

Speaker 2:

I love that. I need to do it. I know I would like to do it.

Speaker 1:

And you know, and and I'm just going to say it, like I've had enough people, as you guys to you know, ask me like well, what was it like? Like, oh, that should fix me. And I was like listen, no, no, no, no, this will not fix you, I said with any kind of healing system. The system isn't going to fix you and you're not to be fixed. You just need to learn how to operate at a healthier version, just an upgraded version, as we all upgrade our phones and we have software updates all the time. You work good. You just had some bad habits or some bad messaging or bad operating systems and behaviors. We're just going to do just help you. Pull those away from who you really are.

Speaker 3:

I love that. No one's ever fixed you really not.

Speaker 2:

You can't get to that place, well, and people are looking for answers outside of themselves. Yeah, when the answer is in you. Like, you are the medicine, and we've talked about this before. Like, sometimes I don't, you know people don't necessarily understand that, but you describe that very, very well.

Speaker 1:

Well, and when you really think about it, anyone who's successful in their healing journey, they did it themselves. Because there comes a point where you reach a place where you've done enough work, you have the tools that, when the same problem comes up, you have the right tools for that job. You can go oh, I've been here before, last time I did it that way, this time I'm going to do it this way. So that's, that's the, that's the success.

Speaker 3:

I love that you just said that too, because there's been a post that I've seen like three times now, that has been shared and it I saw it again on my Instagram a few days ago that said oh that's cool that you do breathwork and psychedelics, but have you ever tried feeling your feelings and it like oh, excuse me because part I'm like like we've talked about this.

Speaker 3:

I'm like, okay, let's, let's, let's break this down a little bit, because we do that and we don't do breathwork every day and we don't do psychedelics every week or every month or even every six months. These are I do breathwork every day.

Speaker 3:

You do do breathwork every day, but not like in that, like the, you do different types of breathwork, but it's like these are tools for us. We do have the capacity to sit with our feelings and move through life and when something new comes up, we have these tools in our tool belt where we're like okay, I've tried everything to figure this out. I met a plateau, kind of like what you were talking about earlier with the therapy. I met a plateau. What can I do to help me move through this and not just cope or feel it, but like help me understand it, so when it happens again, I have a better understanding and capacity of working with it without reaching for the tools? That's the way I see it.

Speaker 1:

Here's the thing you cannot heal what you cannot feel and honestly, even you know, with some of my coaching clients, they're like, well, I don't really feel like I'm connected to myself. I said that's good, that's valid. It's important to not know how to feel, because then you can have this awareness, because it's like sitting in that discomfort of not knowing what to do Sometimes is our greatest teacher and that uncomfortable nature of being like I feel so out of sorts. It's like you know, it's like I know plenty of people that are like I'm doing ayahuasca, I'm doing ketamine, I'm doing psilocybin, and it's like, well, you haven't even integrated the lesson from the previous experience.

Speaker 1:

And we human beings love comfort because we want to feel good all the time, and hard times teach you how to be good. You learn your biggest lessons and your greatest successes and your most joy from difficult experiences. And you know it's like people are like I want to just be happy. And it's like I don't believe in happiness. I believe in joy, because joy is a combination of sadness, happiness and the whole spectrum of experiences and how you look at things.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and we talk a lot too, because you know there have been people who have messaged us and said I just judge you because I thought you're just like some moms who were just like on drugs, like, and you created an Instagram and a podcast because of it and that was legit a message, that was actually a message and so you know, I think people who don't listen to us and maybe don't understand our content, they may, you know, take it and run with it like, oh, they're just doing drugs. We talk so much about intention of doing everything.

Speaker 2:

And it's not just psychedelics, the intention of doing breath work, the intention of meditating, the intention of going to therapy, like the matter and all of it. And so, yeah, there are people who do psychedelics and it is like a way to party, it is a way to escape and it is a way to numb, but again, it goes back to that intention.

Speaker 1:

I think what's? I guess I grew up in the dare era.

Speaker 3:

Same.

Speaker 1:

So for us, you know, and I think what's hard is that everything we were taught that was bad is now being used to help people, especially people that suffer from PTSD, cpsd and all those things these compounds are truly helping give people their life's back. So, really, the mental health problem in our country, you know, is we're flipping what we learned upside down and going, yeah, we don't want you to do a bunch of MDMA or, you know, xsc, you know, for fun, it's like, no, let's do it with. It's all about context and even breathwork. It's all about the context and the intentionality and the energy behind it. That's where the work is, and I think it's so important, you know, and my first thing is, like always, you know, when people are like, hey, I should do this, but now, man, these, when you open Pandora's box, you do not have this. You know, if you don't have a system and a context and a set and a setting and you are not ready, it's terrifying. It can be the worst experience of your life, traumatizing, and talk about re-traumatizing.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, no coping skills, I mean nothing.

Speaker 1:

No, and so I'm. That's my caution, my cautionary tale, as you guys know too, it's just like healing is very hard. It's a very hard, it's a very hard journey to choose, and a lot of people don't want to choose the hard work.

Speaker 2:

So true, and that's okay, they're not ready, yeah.

Speaker 3:

It's up for the challenge.

Speaker 1:

I think what happens is any yeah, I think to you. What it is is that healing occurs when the weight of your former self can no longer carry your own baggage.

Speaker 2:

I want to write that in my head.

Speaker 3:

You're like I have to write this down.

Speaker 2:

I have just notes of like quotes or things people say where I'm like that's so good and I literally like I write it down in my phone, so I'll have to. Yeah, I'll have to re-watch this and write it down later.

Speaker 1:

And it's just, you know, we're all just trying. We're all just trying to find that place where we can just be us. And that's hard in all phases of life and I always just believe you got to have a lot of grace for yourself in what got you to this point. And our past is our past. We can't go back, we can't rewrite those things. But I think it's incredibly important to honor that former version, but leave it and let it go. And you know a lot of people too, you know, are going to remember that former person. And I told the client, I said listen, people aren't going to forget the former version of you. So all you can do is be the version of yourself that you want to be and show them. And it might take 10 years, it might take 20 years, but at least you feel like you're at home in yourself again.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, that's a hard one too, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Okay, it's a. I mean Jason knows, tony knows, I know.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

We all know that former version and we're always going to come in contact with people from our past and they're like you did this and I'm like I did and I'm sorry, and the person and that radical acceptance of our former actions and this is this is a recovery tool. The more radically honest you are with yourself, the easier it is to move forward and and have that honesty of like, yeah, I screwed up, I was a jerk, I did that and that radical honesty makes, makes your authenticity so much more real and intentional and that is where the healing really you can sense your own healing and that's, that's the beauty, that's why I'm sharing, you know, yeah, and vulnerability is the ultimate shame killer.

Speaker 3:

True, I love that. It's like Brené Brown. He is Different, but the same, but different, but awesome. Yeah, um, okay, do you have any? Was that the last?

Speaker 2:

question yeah, and we gotta, we gotta wrap it up. I gotta go pick up my kiddo.

Speaker 3:

Yes, Thank you so much for giving us more of your time for part two. I think that was like much needed, much, much, much needed and necessary.

Speaker 2:

I am also going to manifest 2024, meeting you and Chrissy.

Speaker 3:

Making a trip happen, something's gonna happen.

Speaker 2:

IRL, in real life In real life, not on the computer.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and it's, and it's beautiful and like the one thing that I can say to you. Know to leave this for your partners, your kids and everyone. Healing is possible and change is doable, because when you start to live your own truth, it just you can just be that. You know, and it's important Love that.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, thank you so much for that.

Speaker 3:

Leah already clipped it. Oh okay, Sorry. You will forever go down in our history book as like the most clippable man that we have ever person, not even man person that we have ever interviewed.

Speaker 2:

Definitely definitely way more clip than the rehab guy.

Speaker 3:

Rehab owner.

Speaker 1:

And, and I will just say anytime, anytime I will, I would love to come back and chat anytime.

Speaker 2:

Maybe we could have you and Chrissy on.

Speaker 1:

That will be. That's a. That's an interesting one. We just were on that podcast, the onsite workshop, and that was really interesting to talk about our healing journey together. Yeah, as a couple.

Speaker 2:

I think that'd be good.

Speaker 3:

Oh, send us the link to that.

Speaker 2:

Oh, we'll share it. I already got it.

Speaker 3:

You do. Okay, all right, I want to listen to that, all right. Thank you, sam, so much. Thank you for everything that you do, thank you both and hopefully again you'll be hearing from our husbands, maybe our partners. All right, We'll talk to you soon.

Speaker 1:

I would, I would love to Awesome. All right, sounds good.

People on this episode

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Christine

Co-host
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Leah

Co-host