Have you ever caught yourself performing for approval, donning a mask to fit societal norms? Prepare to be liberated as we embark on a quest to unearth the essence of living authentically. We'll navigate the minefield of societal expectations, discerning the superficial flexes from true personal achievements. Grappling with the paradox of people-pleasing, we'll expose its potential as a guise for manipulation. We'll dissect the authentic interactions that define honest friendships and the transformative power they hold in our lives.
Navigating the murky waters of emotional expression, we shed light on the pressures faced by both men and women. The 'emotions wheel' becomes a compass for understanding the intricate layers of our feelings, while we also explore the balance of feminine and masculine traits within us. Our conversation takes a turn towards the challenges of work-life balance, people pleasing, the hustle culture, and the unseen struggles lurking behind successful facades. Plus, we get personal, sharing anecdotes and insights gained from human design, all while questioning the unrealistic expectations imposed by a patriarchal society.
As we draw the curtains on this heart-to-heart, we touch upon the transformative impact of self-healing on parenting and the significance of vulnerability. We challenge the notions surrounding toxic family systems and the misconceptions of materialism, closing with a reflection on the true meaning of friendship. From the superficial bragging to the courage in honest confrontations among friends, our conversation is an invitation to rethink what it means to flex in modern society. Join us as we grapple with the struggle for balance, the superwoman syndrome, and the beauty of asking for help.
Colors
Use code OTHERSIDE15 for 15% off of our favorite mushroom gummies!
Our Website:
https://linktr.ee/seeyouontheothersidepodcast
Have you ever caught yourself performing for approval, donning a mask to fit societal norms? Prepare to be liberated as we embark on a quest to unearth the essence of living authentically. We'll navigate the minefield of societal expectations, discerning the superficial flexes from true personal achievements. Grappling with the paradox of people-pleasing, we'll expose its potential as a guise for manipulation. We'll dissect the authentic interactions that define honest friendships and the transformative power they hold in our lives.
Navigating the murky waters of emotional expression, we shed light on the pressures faced by both men and women. The 'emotions wheel' becomes a compass for understanding the intricate layers of our feelings, while we also explore the balance of feminine and masculine traits within us. Our conversation takes a turn towards the challenges of work-life balance, people pleasing, the hustle culture, and the unseen struggles lurking behind successful facades. Plus, we get personal, sharing anecdotes and insights gained from human design, all while questioning the unrealistic expectations imposed by a patriarchal society.
As we draw the curtains on this heart-to-heart, we touch upon the transformative impact of self-healing on parenting and the significance of vulnerability. We challenge the notions surrounding toxic family systems and the misconceptions of materialism, closing with a reflection on the true meaning of friendship. From the superficial bragging to the courage in honest confrontations among friends, our conversation is an invitation to rethink what it means to flex in modern society. Join us as we grapple with the struggle for balance, the superwoman syndrome, and the beauty of asking for help.
Colors
Use code OTHERSIDE15 for 15% off of our favorite mushroom gummies!
Our Website:
https://linktr.ee/seeyouontheothersidepodcast
the way I blend into this pillow, oh my God, you kind of do Legit.
Speaker 2:I think you should take the. I think you should take the flannel off and show your tits.
Speaker 1:Just show my tits, I don't, you know, I'm not there.
Speaker 2:Just throw it out there.
Speaker 1:You and everybody else, you and everybody else.
Speaker 2:I'm always throw it out there, you and everybody else.
Speaker 1:I'm always going to be the friend who's like show more skin. This is the thing that used to get me in trouble as a kid, though, so I'm like, I'm very I cover up a lot.
Speaker 2:What did you just show me? What did you just show me, what did? It say what did it say what did it say?
Speaker 1:Hold on. Breaking the pattern requires you to make a different choice. Show your tits, show your tits. Show your tits Free the nipple. Free the nipple. Listen, listen. Make a different choice. Listen, linda, I'm just saying that's what you grew up with. They're showing a little bit. They're showing enough.
Speaker 2:Show it off.
Speaker 1:I already made a different choice by not wearing the oversized sweatshirt. Thank, you. I just put on an oversized cardigan instead. That's funny, I got too many pillows on me.
Speaker 2:Okay, can I have a gummy? Yeah, what do you want Give me some Amanita? Let's talk about this, okay.
Speaker 1:We had somebody reach out and say they ordered some of the colors gummies. But I think we need to let you guys know the amanita is not something that you want to do. A large dose of this is not the same as psilocybin. The other ones they don't say psilocybin because they can't, but the ones in the black bottle are the psilocybin. And the pouch that says the double dose, those are psilocybin. Yeah, the pouch that says the double dose, those are psilocybin. You like these? I love Amanita. I prefer these for this type of stuff.
Speaker 2:Okay, anyway what are we talking about today? How did we start talking about it? But we started having a conversation about what people or society may think is a flex, but it's so not a fucking flex. So you posted something on our stories where you said that and people could write in their answer and, um, we could talk about it and elaborate on it. And people had some really good answers for that. So let's get into it.
Speaker 1:I was going to add something from last episode that we were talking about the tattoo on my face, because I remembered the word.
Speaker 2:Oh OK, can you give a little bit more backstory if people didn't hear that episode?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Last week, um, you asked me if there was a word that I would get tattooed on my head, what would it be and why? And I was like blanking on the word. Um, the word is me phobia and the definition is the fear of becoming so awesome that the human race can't handle it and everybody dies.
Speaker 2:Oh fuck, I know it's a little extreme.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is so extreme. But I follow a makeup artist who has the tattoo under her eye. It says me phobia and I've always wondered what that meant and I Googled it and I was like, oh shit, I and I think maybe not to the extreme that it's like and everybody dies, but it's like realizing your own potential and being terrified of it. A lot of people out there are afraid of their own potential. Fuck yeah, it's terrifying, myself included. Yeah, still same. That was me like being terrified to feel empowered, yeah, um, anyway.
Speaker 1:So that's my backtrack on last episode, this today, the things that we were talking about. I took screenshots of all the answers because so many people had such good answers and we had our own list that we wanted to start out with. And the reason that this kept coming up is because I think a lot of people out there are proud to be and self-proclaimed people pleasers and this is kind of how this started is as a recovering people pleaser, as a formal people, former people pleaser and still sometimes fall into those things, those people pleasing patterns. The thing that really helps me not to people please is realizing that it's manipulation.
Speaker 2:Well, I was. I was going to bring that up We've talked about on I don't know if it was the last episode we did, but how people pleasing is closer to narcissism than what you think, because it is a form of manipulation and you're using ego. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And we are not calling people-pleasers narcissists. No, no, no, no, no, no. That's not what this is. Let me be clear about the whole narcissist thing too. Everybody has narcissistic tendencies and traits. It is our ego. It is the thing that protects us from harm in the world. It's just sometimes people are much deeper in those patterns than others. Yeah, and being aware of it is just the first step. So, yeah, no, we are not calling people pleasers narcissists. But how many times have we come across like things that are like people pleasers are closer to covert narcissists than they even realize?
Speaker 1:And I agree with that because you're trying to, and I used to be that I was very much the victim in my in my life and the people pleaser and woe was me and um, always talking about all the shit that was going on wrong, without realizing I played a role in it. That kind of goes with last episode. But anyway, back to the people pleaser thing. The thing that really clicked for me was reading up on it and realizing that by people pleasing, you are manipulating people into liking you, manipulating them into doing things for you. It's like this well, but I did these things for you. So, like, why wouldn't you do these things for me? So there's just a lot of toxicity in people pleasing that and you go around and you hear people talking about I'm just a people pleaser. Like, well, stop it. Right.
Speaker 2:Stop being one. You're aware of it Right. So now, what are you going to do about it?
Speaker 1:Ask yourself why you're doing it. So this is I started to make a whole TikTok about this because it's not the flex you think it is and also, before you do something where, like, somebody comes to you and is, like, can you do this for me? Before saying yes, sit with it and ask yourself am I doing this for me or am I doing this for them? Am I going to regret this later? Am I going to be upset that I said yes to this? Because if the answer is yes to that, then say no. You were manipulating this person into thinking that you are doing something of service for them, when really you're just agitated and angry when you're doing it.
Speaker 2:That's something and it's going to build up resentment. That is something I still really, really struggle with.
Speaker 1:I do too yeah, I do too, yeah. So it's really just like sitting with the intention behind why you're doing something before I do too yeah. So it's really just like sitting with the intention behind why you're doing something before you do it. And are you people pleasing because you want everybody to like you? I don't know, yeah. So that's one of them and I think that that's the biggest one that kind of started this whole like what else is?
Speaker 2:a flex. I was going to say, yeah, then we're like, okay, but what else? There's so many things, yeah, so let's get into it, yeah.
Speaker 1:So people pleasing is the first one. Having a ton of friends I think we should add that, like, this is not always black and white. Yes, and it's just some of the people who sent these things in, like maybe it's something that they used to think was a flex and now they're realizing it's not. So what are your thoughts on this one? Having a ton of friends?
Speaker 2:I know I always go back to this, but it's again. It's my Roman empire. But I watched an episode of Vanderpump Rules last night and there's a girl on there, sheena, Shea, mm-hmm, and she has, I think it was, 56 people's location that she is tracking of her friends and her toxic trait is that she constantly wants to be liked by everybody which kind of goes into the people-pleasing, but because of that she wants to be liked by everybody which kind of goes into the people pleasing, but because of that she wants to be popular. Don't people say like she collects friends, yes, and everyone's her best friend and like whatever, and I'm like okay, first off, you're married, you're a mom, you're a working mom. How in the fuck do you have time to track 56 other people's location and what?
Speaker 1:they're doing. Don't even think I could name 56 people off the top of my head that. I would consider friends. No, I have like five friends.
Speaker 2:Fuck, no, fuck, no, fuck, no. I used to be somebody, though. I used to be somebody, though, who did pride herself on having being friends with a lot of people. Yeah, same, because I was liked Again, that people pleasing pattern. Because I was liked by people, people thought I was fun to talk to.
Speaker 1:You were liked by everybody.
Speaker 2:Who cool to hang out with Whatever? So yeah, hang out with whatever. So, um, yeah. And then, as it's, what's interesting is the more work I've done. Those friendships have slowly fallen off because they don't accept me for who I am and I am not going to change myself to appease you.
Speaker 1:I was literally just going to say I think people who have a lot of friends aren't really fully authentic.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:They are playing a role or putting on a mask to make sure that everybody likes them, and I don't. I really I don't like that idea anymore. I used to, and I again, like, we're not like, we're not hating on ourselves here, like we used to be those people who wanted everybody to like us. Here's the reality of it. That's impossible to have everybody like you because you don't like everybody, so like, why would you expect every single person to like you? There are people that you are just not going to vibe with, and that's okay.
Speaker 2:Like, the energy is just not there, and that's okay, right, and also like just because you don't align with someone doesn't mean that there has to be beef, right, right, so, and I know it can maybe sometimes feel that way- it does, I think, when you are like someone who's used to everybody liking you.
Speaker 2:Right, right, where it doesn't really have to be. And so that's something that I've struggled with is I have disconnected with some people who you know I used to party with them, we went to college, did, did whatever where it's like, no, we're just in different phases and have different interests and commonalities and beliefs and that's okay. But I don't want to change who I am, because I've, like recently, worked really hard to find you, to become this and to find this, and I don't want it to go away. And if you don't accept it or you think it's weird, that is so cool, that is I'm all good with that, but there doesn't have to be beef with that, but just we've naturally grown apart.
Speaker 1:Well, and it's like I'm not going to put myself in a box to make you feel comfortable anymore. Yeah, and I am going to show up me fully, yeah.
Speaker 2:And I'm okay.
Speaker 1:People don't like that. I'm going to be honest. I used to think people were weird all the time and now I'm like I'm the weird one.
Speaker 2:I went to the park with my son yesterday and I spent an hour talking to this married couple about mushrooms. I was just going to say, were you talking about mushrooms? I was, because it's to the point where I'm like they may be super religious and they may not be into it or they're you know, they still believe the dare program, shit like whatever. But I don't care yeah like I.
Speaker 2:If I'm gonna have a conversation with you, I don't care what you think I like you can leave this, so that's super cool too, but I I'm going to keep talking about it because it's my interest and it's what I like and it's what I feel very passionately about. So I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I used to have a hard time making like feeling like I was making someone feel uncomfortable. And now I'm like it's kind of I don't want to say it's fun. I'm not like getting pleasure out of making people uncomfortable, but like if it makes you uncomfortable, then like I'm not like getting pleasure out of making people uncomfortable, but like if it makes you uncomfortable, then like I'm okay with that, right.
Speaker 2:Right, I'm not like purposely trying to make you feel uncomfortable, right, it got brought up organically.
Speaker 1:Right, I'm not like. Yeah, like, and I was just like well, go with it, I can picture you at the park, like sitting down next to some random couple and be like hey, have you heard of mushrooms? You want any? I'm like no, that's not what you're doing. I get what you're saying, like it like comes up in conversation and I'm not going to fucking like act like I don't know anything about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've got that projector energy People just come and talk to me, so I'm going to talk.
Speaker 1:I'm going to talk about what I want to talk about.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Okay. So having a ton of friends, I want to well, I want to well, no, we'll get to it because somebody else posted something else being a man and the way that I'm reading this this was this was a man who sent this in. I I saw another one that was like being proud to be the alpha. So I'm reading it like this like just be a man up, oh, don't cry about it. Like I think society does this a lot with like little boys too, and and being a man, what does that mean? Being a man?
Speaker 2:right, it's not the flex that you think it is well and somehow we've labeled that anger is not an emotion. And most men who have suppressed feelings their entire life grow up and then they have this anger, but they don't think that they are emotional.
Speaker 1:And I'm like, if I love bug had, anger is emotion, babe money for every time I talk to a woman who is married to dating in a long-term relationship with a man who says they're too emotional and they're just not that emotional, but they get angry all the time and I'm like what do they think that is? The only emotion they show is anger. It's an emotion they just don't know how to express.
Speaker 1:All the other ones well, the way you do and your emotions make them feel really uncomfortable and what do we say is behind anger, grief? Sadness there's. There's all kinds of shit underneath anger.
Speaker 2:I think anger is just an emotion that they don't realize is an emotion, but an emotion that they feel comfortable with because it's Manly Well, and it's kind of what's They've been conditioned that it's the only emotion that it's okay to show. Yeah, yeah, so I do have a lot of empathy for men in that way and compassion for men, because I do want men like to be able to have all sorts of emotions and it be OK and there not be shame around it. Yeah, and so I as a woman want to do a better job at being able to hold space for men, which I kind of want to get into that later, but we can do a whole episode on that and we absolutely will.
Speaker 1:Um, cause, you're exactly right, it's the opposite of this. Like to me, the opposite. What is a flex is being able to express all the emotions and not be ashamed of them, yeah, and to be able to hold space for other people expressing all the emotions and not be ashamed of them, yeah, and to be able to hold space for other people expressing all the emotions, like to me, that's a flex. Yes, like a man who can cry and be okay with crying, like that's fucking sexy. Yeah, a man who can show, you know, love in different ways, like I don't know. Like, once you get that emotions wheel, like great tool to have.
Speaker 1:By the way, I have that as a pillow. I know I saw that at your house the other day. I've been sitting on my purchase for a while, but that emotions wheel is a big tool for people because it might show up as anger, but that's not what's underneath it. So I'm sure that there's more to that. Like being a man is like such a flex. Like we could take it a little bit deeper and say you know, we talk about being in your feminine being, your masculine. A lot of women who are in their masculine think it's a flex. They're like I don't need a man, I can do this on my own.
Speaker 2:I was going to say I want to add that, add to that.
Speaker 1:So take the gender out of it.
Speaker 2:Right Is, is well to say that it's not a flex where women hate men. Yeah, that's not a flex, yeah, which I used to kind of be like, that I didn't kind of I was like very very scorned.
Speaker 1:Did anybody write that?
Speaker 2:Um, I don't know, but that's a good one. Yeah, like I think that there are a lot of men, women, who aren't very great at holding space for men. Yeah, I think it goes both ways, it's not just one or the other. Like I think men have a lot of you, lot of toxicity that they need to decondition from, but so do women, and I've seen a lot of just random little things where I'm like man, the hate and the anger that we have for men is something that we need to heal, because those are some wounds where we may be projecting onto the people that didn't cut us in the first place. Yeah, and I think it's important that we hold space for each other, and I feel like that's a really controversial thing to say.
Speaker 1:I understand what you're saying. We can even take this back to the Barbie movie and that episode that we did on that and like realizing that like oh, even men who are angry and hate women sometimes what they need is a woman who is able to hold space for their grief and their anger and their sadness and and whatever it is that they have gone through to make them hate women in the first place, who can like, see and acknowledge that this man has probably some really deep seated mother wounds or father wounds and they okay, let's take it back. Like the whole emasculating men thing. It's not cute, it's not cool. So many women are like, but men aren't.
Speaker 1:Shit, you know, men do this and I don't need a man. Well, that's probably the energy that you're putting out, but if you want to be I mean, this could be a whole episode, so I don't want to go too far into it but if you want to be treated like a queen, then you have got to treat him like a king. There is no like I'm the princess, that type of stuff, like my daughter's the fucking princess, but like, you know what I mean like, like you can't emasculate him because you think you're better than him. Yeah, and because you think that, like he's not shit and I'll just speak from personal experience.
Speaker 2:I used to do that, yeah, and cause I was very deep in my masculine and so it was only about me, it was only about my feelings and what I felt and whatever. And it's like, well, tony, my fiance, he has trauma too. He has a past too. He's got feelings, there's wounds too. He has feelings too, he has has bad days too, like it's not just about, it's about you both and it's about a partnership together and holding space for each other. And I do see that a lot where a lot of women it's like it's me, me, me, me, me. And it's like, yeah, but like shit happened to him too.
Speaker 2:Right, right and that's okay, you could. It's important for you guys to both be putting in the work and both be holding space for each other A hundred percent.
Speaker 1:A hundred percent Cause I can see my husband as a little boy when he is in his you know feels and it's. But another thing to that like I had a friend recently say this to me and I was like, oh my God, that's. She's in her like man hating phase and rightfully so. She's been very hurt by men in her life who were very not supposed to be that way. I don't want to give too many details. Her own father said to her but you're raising a son, you can't be on this. I hate men kick for the rest of your life because you are raising a boy and what is that teaching him? And that's huge Like I don't want my kids to feel that from me and I don't want them to feel it in our marriage that I am like emasculating my husband or not just like emasculating him, but like my feelings matter and fuck you. And you know like which is also how I used to be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, it's like what we said in the 12 step episode, and you can write out your resentments, but then you need to write out the role you play in those situations, because we do have a role to play. You have sons to raise and I have a son to raise and I want him to be a grow up, to be a man who shows emotion and, you know, can hold space for himself, can hold space for other people. Yeah, so I have to parent him that way. Yeah, I can't parent him being like fuck these guys, like right, it's not going to work, right. So it's like I have to be the change and to be the change. I've got to parent him in a way that I want how I want him to show up in the world when he becomes an adult.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that's a good one. Being a man is not the flex. You think it is, um, okay, next one telling it like it is brutal honesty. It's usually more about ego than forward movement.
Speaker 2:Ooh, I feel this one. I feel this one so deeply. Do you want to talk about it? You go first. Uh, yeah, I think I think that there is a strong case that in my past I've been a bully. Okay, and I've said it before.
Speaker 2:When I came out of my mushroom journey, um, the first one, I was like I have a lot of people to apologize to. Oh, yeah, because I was very angry and projected onto people who it wasn't their fault, um, but also I was somebody who was very like tell it how it is, Tell them what you really think. Tell them your opinion, fuck you, whatever. Tell them your opinion, fuck you Whatever.
Speaker 2:And again, I don't think, in a lot of situations I was wrong to maybe feel the way that I felt, right, but it was how I said it and not having courtesy or compassion that they also have their perspective and their journey and their reasons for why they are the way that they are. And there are things that I can say, but learning how to say it, okay, and so for me, I'm like very, I can't not say stuff. I've learned that about myself I can't not say something. So if you are, if you are close in my life. I have to tell you how I'm feeling, but right now I'm very cautious and conscious and almost a little paranoid of bringing it up, because in the past I've said things so directly and so bluntly and I've lost friendships over it.
Speaker 2:Okay, Because, I'm sure I really hurt their feelings where now I'm like I don't want that. I really care about your feelings. I want to say what I have to say and you hold space for that, and us not lose a friendship or a relationship over that, but also hold space to your perspective and what you have to say too, because I probably have a part in this situation as well.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'm glad you added the last part, cause.
Speaker 1:I'm like I can't relate to this, because I've never been that person who is like, brutally honest. I keep a lot of things in. Yeah, um, we were. I was actually having this conversation with my friend Sarah the other day about like me and my luteal phase and like the things that bother me and wanting to bring them up, but also like knowing that I'm in my luteal phase and it didn't bother me two days ago and it's bothering me now. Do I bring it up or do I keep it in? And it's not that I'm keeping it in or suppressing it, but I have a very different approach to this, where I am going to figure out. I will only bring it up if I can't work it out on my own. Does that make sense? Yeah, does that make sense? Yeah, so, um, because sometimes I'll be like okay, is this necessary?
Speaker 1:What was the role that I played in this? Is it worth it to even bring it up and not just like with anything? You know, there was somebody who texted me a couple of weeks ago and I just didn't respond and my husband was like, what's responding going to do? Is it worth it? And I was like, no, you're right, like I don't even want to put the energy into responding to this, like it's not somebody who's who I'm close with. Yes, so I don't need to be that person who tells this person what I feel about this situation, because I'm like you know what, I don't need to sit in that, so you're right. I'm like you know what, I don't need to sit in that, so you're right. I'm just not going to respond.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I want to put an emphasis on people that matter to me.
Speaker 1:Right, right, yeah, and that's why I said I'm glad that you said that, because if it's someone who matters to me and also if it's something that I cannot work out myself, like I can't work myself out of it and I'm like holding onto it and it's creating friction that, like this other person doesn't even know is there, then I'm going to have to like work up the fucking courage to like deliver it in a way that is going to be heard. Yes, there have been people that I have lost who I don't know can hear what I have to say. Same. So it's like it's falling on deaf ears. What's the point? Does that make sense? Yeah, I've already said does that make sense twice.
Speaker 2:I'm going to make you start dropping down and giving me 10 pushups. I know.
Speaker 1:I know I've gotten better at it in person. Okay, that's good, all right. The next one. We actually had a couple of these, so, um, I don't, I'm, I don't want to lose my place, so I'm just going to say it, and then, when we get to it, we'll say we already did so not a flex.
Speaker 2:It's not flex used to be that person right.
Speaker 1:I think hustle culture really fucking did a number on us, but I think that was um like for me.
Speaker 2:It got to the point I used to own a gym. It got to the point where I had and I was just telling you this earlier today I had a UTI for about a year and a half, on antibiotic for a year and a half because I was so stressed. Being a mom trying to be a partner, run a business. Run a business during a pandemic. Run a business during a pandemic when you had to shut down for three months. That was not easy. Also, learning how that I'm a projector and even owning that business, I was not living to my design at all and I wasn't getting the rest I needed and I wasn't getting the rest I needed. Yeah, but it got to the point where I felt like I was quitting or I felt like I wasn't like. I think a lot of women, too, are conditioned to be like be like a man, hustle, grind, work that nine to five earn your keep type thing.
Speaker 1:Have the kids. Have the kids Get married. Do it all Clean the house. Have the kids Get married. Do it all Clean the house. Cook the food, remember appointments? Yeah, and it just Do the field trips.
Speaker 2:I couldn't work on that level and my body was every day telling me bitch do something different. Sit the fuck down and like rest. Different sit the fuck down and like rest. And I wouldn't, because I felt like to contribute to society. I had to be that way.
Speaker 1:I think, now that we know what we know about human design. First off, not everybody is meant to or wired to work the way that people do when they're like nine to five or working 40 plus hours a week.
Speaker 2:Those are the manifesting generators and the generators of the world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and even sometimes they get burnt out when they're not doing the thing that they're supposed to be doing or the things that they love, and they have no passion for it. They're used to that hustle and grind but like they're still in a, in a job that like doesn't really serve them. But they can do that nine to five. My husband can do the fucking nine to five and shut off at five o'clock. I can't, I cannot. I also think that like there's something to be said about that work-life balance.
Speaker 1:Um, and also I know I've mentioned this book before. I'm going to mention it again in the Heroine's Journey, it talks about how women try so hard to live in this patriarchal society and have the job and have the kids and have the degrees we do it all at what price? So I was having this conversation with somebody the other day who is in business and struggling and is having a hard time because she's like everybody else is doing just fine. I'm like I'm going to stop you right there. I owned a business for 12 years and I was not fine. So the people you don't know, these people who look like they have successful businesses and they have these perfect families and they're doing it all, you do not know whether they are suffering on the inside or not. They very well could be and they're just doing a really good job of pretending they're doing okay which is what I did for a very long time, conditioned to you just do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we don't know any different, right? So, yeah, that's what this book talks about is how women chase that and then they get there and then they're like this is it. I thought this is like the American dream, like in my life is still not, like, I'm still not happy. Like what else is there? I've hit every goal and there's nothing. So, all right, um, being busy with work, do you have anything else to add to that? I?
Speaker 2:do have one to add, just whenever.
Speaker 1:Why don't you do it now?
Speaker 2:we don't forget it okay, um, I don't know if this is on there, but when people say that's just how I was raised or that's just the way that I am, I think that is on here.
Speaker 1:Okay, great, but we'll know now when we get there. Okay, great, love that.
Speaker 1:I know so many people like that you knew, knew who I was when you met me. I haven't changed and I don't want you to change me and you shouldn't want to change me. I have a lot to say about that, go Okay. First off, the things that sometimes people are like that's who I am, that's how I was when you met me. That's not who you are, it's really not, that's not who you are to your core, like those are like well, I drank when you met me. That's not who you are. Oh yeah, see, I'm thinking something different, maybe, than you are.
Speaker 2:No no.
Speaker 1:Yeah or I'm. I'm brutally honest. That's just who you are. Those are things that you do. Those are coping skills. I wouldn't even call them skills Projections. Those are tools that you've picked up along the way, but that is not the essence of who you are as a person. You can remove those things and still be exactly who you are. So I don't like that. When people say this is just who I am and this is who I'll always be. There's always room for growth and always room for change.
Speaker 2:So totally, I think the well, that's just how I was raised, yeah, so I'll just use an example. Someone who is very religious that I know, and you know again, I'm not knocking your Christianity but grew up in church now is an adult, has kids, is in church with her family and it's like I can't listen to what you have to say because it's like I didn't get taught that type of a thing. And for me I'm like you know, you can still have your stance and you can still have your opinion, but also there can still be a curiosity to someone else's perspective, other type of knowledge and information. Like to me, it's not a flex to be like, oh, that's just how I was raised, so I'm not going to hear anything else. That's different. You need, like goes against that, maybe a little bit of a different perspective, like I. Just for me, let's say, raising my child, I want him to learn about different things, even if there may be against what I believe, because I want him to form his own opinion and become a critical thinker.
Speaker 1:You know how I feel about religion and I want my kids to take classes on religion. Yeah, Like I want different religions, not just like right, Like I want you to go and learn about Buddhism and Taoism and all the different like types of religion that there are.
Speaker 2:But why is that wrong? It's not wrong, but I feel like there is this like this is how I was raised, so I can't learn about anything else, because then that's like wrong and it's like well, if you truly stand with that conviction, you should like you can still be able to hear and learn about different things while still having your belief and opinion.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's okay, I used to have and she's opened now, I think, because maybe she's done a mushroom journey. Yeah, that would change it. She is one of my friends who is like super Christian, but I fucking love her. I have one of those too.
Speaker 1:Audra hey hey, and I remember talking to her one time about my experience with the medium and she said, oh, that just kind of goes against my religion. And she was like, but I've always been curious about it. And then now she's like reaching out asking me about my medium information, because I'm like the fact that, like you, were like, oh, I can't do that, it goes against my religion. I'm like there's a lot of things that are like, that are connected to the spiritual world and religion, that, like they tell you not to do, but I'm like, once you do it, you're like, oh, this makes sense, this connects to this. You know what I mean. So, yeah, all right, you went a different direction with that, but I kind of really like that, like the, the two different perspectives on on that.
Speaker 1:Um, someone said a college degree. So agree, not a flex, and I honestly, like years ago, used to be like my kids are going to go to college. I didn't finish college. I'm just going to say that, okay, didn't finish college and I would be like my kids are going to college. And now I'm like, please, don't go to college. It's a fucking scam. I will say that there are some things and it depends on what you want to do with your life, but there are some things you can do without a college degree actually, and it's kind of starting to turn into that anyway. Like I don't want to be 45, paying off my student loans from when I was 18 years old, with a career that I didn't even love and you know what I mean, and with a degree that I don't even want to use anymore.
Speaker 2:I'm 36 and still paying college loans with a degree that I didn't even have to get.
Speaker 1:Right college loans with a degree that I didn't even have to get Right. That's what I'm saying. It's like like I have found success without a degree and I think anybody can. But again I will say, like I have one kid who thinks he wants to be a lawyer. Like fuck, you gotta go to law school.
Speaker 2:Right, right, you want to be a doctor. Yeah, gotta go to doctor school.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, I just said I didn't finish college, medical school, but you know so. But I don't think it's a flex, like I've never really been ashamed to say that I didn't go to college. I love that.
Speaker 2:Well, it never bothered me. And here's the thing, too, like we've learned a lot about just even traditional school and why they created that, and it was to prep people to work in a factory. So then it's like you have this 18 year old and there is pressure to go to college. Okay, so then?
Speaker 1:And pressure to know what you want to do with the rest of your life.
Speaker 2:That and I know so many people who one year in two years, in three years, in four years in, they're like I don't think that this is what I want to do, but I've already wasted two, three, whatever years of my life learning this. I don't want to start over. So then they go with that and then they go into that job role and they go into that corporate world and they hate their fucking job. But they're like I went to college for this. I don't want to start over. I don't want to find a completely new career.
Speaker 2:I put all that money into it and now I'd have to find a new career and I'd have to take a pay cut or do this and do that. So in a lot of ways not in every way again I'm not like.
Speaker 1:This is black and white.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in a lot of ways college is a scam and I will die on that hill.
Speaker 1:I will stand by that. I hate that like we have to pay so much because if you live in the UK like, you don't fucking pay the way that we do here. It's horrible To add to that what you just said. I know some people whose parents paid for their school. As long as they chose this oh my God Degree, as long as they were working towards this, they paid for their school. So a lot of adults will get stuck in that, like my parents would be so mad at me if I didn't use this degree or my they would be so mad at me if I switched in the middle of my college career, like, or they would cut me off. So it's not even just like you're paying for it. Like there's like that added pressure of like, oh my God, if I switch now or if I drop out of college now, they're going to be so fucking pissed because they just spent all this money on me to go to college and they worked so hard to put me through college. Yeah, yeah, it's pressure.
Speaker 1:So much pressure. What I really really want and call me fucking weird and hippie, dippy and crazy is I want my kids to take a sabbatical. Like I will send you to the fucking jungle Doesn't have to be the jungle, but like do I want them to do mushrooms when they turn 18? Abso-fucking-lutely, hell yeah. Like go do mushrooms, find yourself and then come back and tell me what you want to do with the rest of your life. And it's okay if you don't even know then. And also it's okay if it changes. It's okay if it changes. That's like the whole part of this journey is like changing your mind and being okay with that.
Speaker 2:Like I love that permission and think about this when you go to college and when you finish college, your brain is most likely still not even developed, obviously depending on what age you graduate, but not till you're 25.
Speaker 1:I thought it was 26. I think it might be 25 or 26. Your frontal lobe is fully developed, right To add to this. Nobody added this, but I'm adding it right now. Iq versus emotional intelligence. Oh, and I'm saying this because, even though I don't have the master's degree that my husband has like I am so much more I don't even want to say now I was so much more emotionally intelligent than he was he's come a long fucking way. Like he didn't think that was important. He thought IQ was important. But I teach our kids emotional intelligence like they're so fucking smart and I'm like they don't get it from me because I fuck, I know like that I wasn't that smart like but you are.
Speaker 1:I am so fucking intelligent, but you are smart yes I've always said I don't have common sense, but I have street sense, like I am smart in ways that someone who, like learn from a book, might not be smart, you know? Yeah, so I stand by that. Like, emotional intelligence will always be more. Um, that will be sexier to me than IQ any day.
Speaker 2:Well, and they also say cause? You know the saying, where it's like C students are always a student's bosses. I've never heard that. Yeah, and it's usually true. You want to know why? Because C students over here.
Speaker 1:I was an A student, I just didn't. I hated it.
Speaker 2:Um, but C students were like they didn't get the praise and go like, all right, you do this perfectly, you do this perfect, this, this, this, this, this, this, this. They're used to not fitting in the box and having to maybe have more creative ways to get praise or get attention, and so oftentimes like they have other skill sets and that could be emotional intelligence, it could be, you know, better interaction with people, and so oftentimes they're better with people. Yeah, so they are better leaders because of that. They didn't just go by the book with every fucking thing and get the a and do this and yada, yada, yada, and so a lot of times, like in management leadership roles, it's not the a student, it's the c student who had more emotional intelligence.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you're exactly right. I think people with um high emotional intelligence are very they're good at reading people and they're better at working with people A hundred percent. So, even though that's not in their high IQ, not a flex Good for you If you have one, oh. I was like what did I do If you've got an extremely high IQ? But also, what is your emotional intelligence?
Speaker 2:Well, and to that I fight, I say, like the, the people in the family who have the emotional intelligence level, and to that I fight, I say, like the, the people in the family who have the emotional intelligence are the ones who maybe can start the trajectory of healing for the family and focusing on those types of important things like mental health and you know boundaries and and all of the things that we should learn to function as an independent, empathetic, caring adult that we want our children to be. I used to say that all should learn to function as an independent, empathetic caring adult that we want our children to be.
Speaker 1:I used to say that all the time to jason years ago. I'm like I might. I may not know the things that you know, but I know people. Yeah, like I really do. Yeah, for sure, which is why I fucking had my job for as long as I did I worked really, really well with people. Um, being nice, it's not the flex you think, it is, fuck. No, I feel like that could fall.
Speaker 2:Fall into the people, pleaser category Totally, and also there's a difference between being nice and being kind. I feel like being kind, like be nice, is an authentic. Being kind is more like authentic and compact, like I want to be kind but also like I want people to know, like don't fucking try it, do not fucking try it. I am kind but don't try it, I like that, whereas nice, I feel like it's like it really does fall into that people pleaser category.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like I'm nice because I want you to like me. Yeah, like I'm nice because I want you to like me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, crying about it later or not at all is not a flex.
Speaker 2:What is it? What do you mean? Crying about it later or not at all? Holding?
Speaker 1:it in.
Speaker 2:Okay, suppression.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would agree with that. I cry all the time you do for sure.
Speaker 1:Everything I will say I have not cried. Season three yet Hasn't happened. Yeah, okay, you know what? We still got time Challenge is on um, crying about it later? Not at all, I think it is. And I said this I think it is okay to cry in the moment, totally, like a hundred percent. I cry at my daughter's gymnastics meets. One of the girls fell off the beam. It wasn't even my daughter, but one of the little six-year-olds fell off the beam and no, no, no, she did her routine wrong. She like did a completely different routine. Had it was the saddest thing had like such a breakdown off the beam. All of her little teammates, who were like little six and seven year olds, are like hugging her and like rubbing her back. I was crying because I was like, oh my god, the way that these little girls are like helping her, like it was so adorable. I also cried because she like forgot her routine and I was like, oh God, like, oh, yeah, but I cry over that stuff and I have no shame. Yeah, no shame.
Speaker 2:I used to feel a lot of shame because I'm somebody who if I'm angry, I cry. If I'm sad, I cry. If I'm happy, I cry. If I'm frustrated, I cry. If I'm having a hard conversation, I cry Like any type of emotion I felt. I cried and I would feel so, like just so bad that I'm embarrassed. And now I'm like but what's interesting is now doing that and giving myself permission to feel those things and it's okay I do it less.
Speaker 2:I was just going to say that Because I don't think I bottle it up as much, because there's not so much shame and embarrassment with it. So then when I am frustrated and I go to Tony about my feelings, I'm a lot more calm.
Speaker 1:It's like when you're holding in a cough and it just keeps getting worse. Yeah, you know what I mean. Like you're like trying to hold this coffin and it's like you're dying inside, it's just cough.
Speaker 1:Just cough, yeah, um, to add to that, I have said this to Jason before um, because he'll start talking to me about something and I'm like just, I'm like just, I'm listening, we're communicating, but I'm just crying, and he was like it makes me feel bad. When you're crying, I'm like it's just emotions. Like we can have this conversation. I don't want you to not have this conversation just because I'm crying. Like I'm just, I can't help it. This is a difficult conversation. I've done that with you before. I was literally going to say that Like, and you were like you feel so bad talking to me and I'm like I'm talking to a puppy, but don't feel bad.
Speaker 2:It's my thing, yeah, Because it is. It's like you are allowed to have an emotion.
Speaker 1:It's just coming out of me. I can't fucking help it Like I'm.
Speaker 2:hold it in, it's, it just comes out, but for me it's the hives that get me. I'm like, oh my god, she's breaking out in hives. Yeah, I do that a lot and I don't want that to happen but, you do that. You're doing it right now.
Speaker 1:I am, yeah, just a little christ yeah, it used to be much, much worse. Like I couldn't hide. That's the thing. Like I couldn't hide when I was uncomfortable because my neck and face would get so fucking red yeah and people would be like something's wrong with you and I'm like no, I'm fine.
Speaker 1:No, I fucking wasn't, I wasn't fine, all right, so crying about it later or not at all, that's not a flex. Just fucking let it out, dude, like I also understand and there's two sides to this having a safe place to do it, sure, yeah, um, I, I create my own safe place, so I don't fucking care. I'll cry in a grocery store. Um, okay, never getting angry.
Speaker 2:It's not a flex so not a fucking flex. And you, you're all like.
Speaker 1:I never get mad. I would love to see what you're holding on to and not letting out. Actually, I wouldn't. That would be terrifying. That's what happened with me. That's what happened with me you know all about, like all my Cali shit last year yeah, I do. It was terrifying when it came out, Not just to my husband, but terrifying to me because I did not. I had never experienced that level of rage in my entire life and it was scary.
Speaker 2:Well, and if if you're never angry, I go back to the lack of authenticity within yourself. Then yeah, because again, emotions are okay. You can feel angry, you can feel sad, you should feel frustrated at times it's not just happiness all the time Like it is okay to feel angry. Oftentimes, what we do with that anger is what makes it not okay Right, but angry so fucking healthy.
Speaker 1:It's really fucking healthy.
Speaker 2:So fucking healthy.
Speaker 1:It's a needed emotion to feel so the rage room we're going to go. But I was talking about this with a friend I will fuck that room up. I was so one of my girlfriends they went for as a work trip and she was like this one guy, like it was so crazy watching him and she was like but the crazy thing is like he's the least, he's the last person you would expect to have that much anger and rage. And I was like those are usually the ones with the most. Yeah, like, show me someone who's always happy. I will show you someone who is internalizing their rage and suppressing all the things that make them angry. 100%. That person is not that happy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know what I see a lot in people who suppress their anger and what it comes out in Passive aggressiveness. Yeah, I see that a lot where it's like in passive aggressiveness. Yeah, I see that a lot where it's like they're nice but then they throw that like little backhanded compliment Cause they're really like a fucking bitter Betty about something and you're like oh, did they just shade me? I'm not really sure, but I think that was a read and um, just say it, just feel whatever you need to feel yeah, I don't know how I, I don't know what I did with my anger.
Speaker 1:I don't know where the fuck I could see you being passive, a little passive-aggressive.
Speaker 2:I don't think I could do that really. No, even to jason, maybe to jason okay, because I was like must be nice going out on a wednesday, you know what I mean like, yeah, no, I could never do that to anybody else.
Speaker 1:Interesting, okay, I don't think I could be wrong. If you guys know me on the personal level, tell me. I don't think I was passive, aggressive, like I would just be super fucking nice. Yeah, maybe I'm wrong. Let's ask Sarah, I don't think I was passive, aggressive at all. Being liked by everybody, that's it. We've said it. Yeah, could totally go into that. Never fighting in a relationship. I have a lot to say about this that's not a flex. I have a lot to say about this yes, you do. Let's hear it.
Speaker 2:Okay. I know a lot of couples. They've been together for 10, 15, 20, 30, whatever years, Okay, and people think that, oh, like they're so cute together, they're so good together because they've been together for so long and they never fight. To me, I think that is the. That's a red flag. It's such a red flag to me, and here's why how can you not fight? I think fighting with your partner is healthy. You have to learn how to fight. You have to learn how to fight. I also this may be unpopular how to fight. I also this may be unpopular think it's okay for your children to see mom and dad have a disagreement, but repair, then resolve it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think that is healthy, because I've heard kids say well, I don't know why my parents got divorced, they never fought. And to me that's the opposite of love, isn't hate, Because with hate there's still to me, there's still passion and there's still strong feelings there. To me, the opposite of love is apathy, indifference.
Speaker 1:Can I admit something? Sure, so before my healing journey and before my husband was sober, I was the cool wife, because I always let him go out and he was always getting to do what he wanted. And I will tell you right now he thought we were just fine. He thought we were fine because I was just checked out emotionally. I didn't have the bandwidth to have the arguments over and over and over that we had been having for years, like about him leaving me with the kids and going out, like there were. There was at least a good two years where I was just like it's fine, like I was the fucking cool wife, wow. So yeah, and because I never said anything, I didn't bring it up anymore. It got to the point where I just gave up. Yeah, so we didn't fight at all.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah. That's so fucking like I could never.
Speaker 1:I can live to testify that that is not a sign of a healthy relationship.
Speaker 2:never fighting there are also people who maybe it's not that extreme, where it's like the partner is partying and going out and hanging out with friends, but they're not having hard conversations, yeah, any type of hard conversations. Or you know, to me I feel like, as Tony and I have grown, we've learned about each other, but we've learned about ourselves, yeah, and shown up in an authentic way. And to me, to show up in an authentic way, you also have a lot of deep conversations.
Speaker 1:And so people who are very like shallow surface, like they both like football, they both do you know whatever, and I'm like, yeah, but like what else, some of our biggest fights in the last couple of years um, I remember one of them in particular lasted for like several days, several days.
Speaker 1:And it ended with him saying to me I know that this has been a really hard few days, but I think we just got a lot out of it and I was like you're right, like it kind of forced us to deal with some shit that we hadn't dealt with yet and it took. It took days. Yeah, it cause you can't do that in an hour or two hours and you know we've got kids at home, so we've got things that we have to do, and so it would be like a few hours every night. After the kids would go to bed, we would have more, we would continue the conversation, and they were really fucking hard, but after every single one of them we would come out of it and have, like this, better understanding of why it was that in the first place and what we were going to do, moving forward.
Speaker 2:I love that.
Speaker 2:So I love that you shared that because that is it is very important and Tony and I, you know, in the beginning of our relationship and granted, it is really hard to blend a family, being a blended family and be a step-mom I think being a step-mom is so much harder than being a stepdad and I will fucking die on that Hill um, for many reasons. But we really had to work through some tough stuff to actually blend our family in a healthy way and we had to go through a lot of like hard phases and seasons of life, but now it's like we have truly learned how to fight because we actually fought and put in the work.
Speaker 1:So you have to learn how to fight, but you should fight. Rick Rubin says this and I fucking love it and I'm stealing it and I say it all the time. Now there is no right or wrong. There is. This is what I see. What do you see? I love that.
Speaker 1:And so now, when we, when we have these, I don't even like calling them fights, like they're. They're arguments, they're disagreements, they're they're hiccups, different perspectives, different perspectives. That's why we're able to get through them, because we come out of it and there is no like I was right, you were wrong. That's never gonna, that's never going to fix a fight. That is never going to fix a fight. We come out of it and we're like this is how I felt when you did this and this is how you felt when I did this, and so let's understand that and let's not do that. Moving forward, there is really like a this was my perspective, this was your perspective. Neither one of us are wrong, but how do we keep from doing this in the future? How do we keep from getting here to this point where we're like in this rage storm together?
Speaker 2:Okay. So I'm going to add to that, okay, something that is not a flex. Yeah, someone who prides themselves in the fact that they don't often apologize because they think they're never wrong. I know it's not totally not a flex, I know, but I know a lot of people. I know that's not totally not a flex, I know, but I know a lot of people, myself included, who like have a hard time apologizing yes, because you're like, you fucked up, you're wrong, like so you're gonna apologize to me, yeah.
Speaker 2:where it's like no, you have a role to play in this too. Yeah, yeah, and. And. So I often think that, though people are, they may not admit it, but they're not good apologizers, because in every fight or every disagreement, they're like I'm right, they're wrong, instead of like okay, this is how I feel, or this is. They made me feel this way, but I have a role to play in this too. I could have made them feel this way, you know, right?
Speaker 1:So right Like yeah, no. I think a lot of people get stuck in that. Well, you apologize first, but that's that's the hardest thing is like being the first one to do it. That's really fucking hard. I'll admit that that's hard because I'm like I will apologize, but you go first.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's real fucked up. Yeah, but I'm. But also there is this like when, like, whoever is the person who goes first, it is like an immediate like it. I don't know how to explain it, but there's like a letdown of like yeah, Okay, and I'm really sorry I did this, yeah, but like I don't ever want to be the one that goes first, Cause I was the one that went first for a long time, so but anyway, it's.
Speaker 1:it's a hard thing, it's a hard thing to work on. Um, all right. Next one being normal is not a flex.
Speaker 2:It's so not Okay. You're just like everybody else.
Speaker 1:The definition of normal is like literally square oh my God, square. We have said this before. And the definition of weird is like fucking magical.
Speaker 2:I'll take magical all day Every fucking day, baby.
Speaker 1:Yes, like I don't want to fit in a box. Also, who sets that?
Speaker 2:Who's?
Speaker 1:normal. Well, and what's normal? What's normal Like inauthenticity is normal. I don't want to do that. I don't want to put on a mask, the same mask, and let me say this Once you start living without that inauthentic mask on and you are walking around maskless, there's a point to this. Whenever you do have to put it back on because there are times I do, it is exhausting and I come home and I am depleted. I'm like how the fuck did I do that my entire life, because now I can't even do it for like 30 minutes without like wanting to come up for air. Yeah, so it's like that. My tolerance for being inauthentic is so much lower than it ever used to be. I used to be really good at just being this person for everybody, and now I'm like that's not who. That was never who I was. Yeah, yeah, so being normal, yeah, love that, okay, um, being a good girl or a good boy.
Speaker 2:I don't know, I've never been a good girl. So, leah, maybe you can speak on this.
Speaker 1:Cause I was always the kid where, um, I wasn't the good girl cause I had a fucking mouth on me so I wasn't necessary. I think my mom would maybe disagree, but I was, like I was so fucking good compared to other kids, like I really was, like I had good grades, like I went to church, like I did all the things, but like but you still did.
Speaker 2:You still did the good girl.
Speaker 1:I did the good girl things. Didn't feel whole.
Speaker 2:So what does that?
Speaker 1:say yeah, doesn't say very much. So this whole good girl I think that kind of goes into also, like why I had so much rage come up last year Like a good girl doesn't get angry, good girls don't get mad, you're just a good girl all the time oh my god, you're so sweet, like oh my god, you're so nice all the time. Like no, I, I hate that. I used to be that and and I don't. I it didn't, I didn't like it. Yeah as as somebody what is a good girl?
Speaker 2:right, and as somebody who was never really a good girl, um, I have seen the conditioning that you see with even like a good little boy, yeah With with little girls and little boys like, oh, you never act up. So well behaved. You're so well behaved.
Speaker 1:I was just going to say. I see a lot of stuff about like the kid who was like the wellaved, like kid who like hung out with the adults because they didn't like do the things that the other kids do.
Speaker 2:You're so mature.
Speaker 1:You're so mature for your age. Where are you now? Are you okay?
Speaker 2:Send us a DM.
Speaker 1:Like like you didn't get to be a child because you were having to be this like good girl, good boy, like that's not yeah that's not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's not a flex.
Speaker 1:Right, yep, my kids are good kids, but like they don't play that Like they're, they don't play that good girl, good boy role Like they're fucking kids who fart and burp in my play hard my son is a fucking menace, but I love him, I know, like let him be a kid, I know.
Speaker 2:And he is Let them be a kid, he is a menace.
Speaker 1:Perfectionism is not a flex yeah, Because it's unattainable it is. I have a friend who is a perfectionist who's who is very aware that she is that way because her parents pushed it on her because they were perfectionists. Is she doing anything about?
Speaker 2:it no, even though she's aware no.
Speaker 1:She also has kids. And I said what is that teaching your kids? And she was like well, I don't expect it from them, I just expect it from me. And I'm like again what is that teaching your kids Like you're? You're still teaching them this, like they see you striving for perfection. And she was very much like oh, I don't expect it from anybody else, just me. Like I'm harder on me than I am on anybody.
Speaker 2:Well, but it's like. It's like the women who they body shame themselves but they want their child to love themselves, and it's like, well, he she has just watched you completely pick apart your body, so they're also going to have that belief right About themselves Like you are their role model. You are their.
Speaker 1:I don't think people think that though I don't think they. It really is like monkey, see, monkey, do like. Just because you're not telling your kids this, you, whatever you are embodying, is what your kids are learning from you, because the actions and the words don't match up, so they're just watching you. Yep, so even though you think you're not doing this to your kids because you're not pushing them the way your parents pushed you, you are still doing this to your kids. So it all kind of goes back to like you got to heal that in yourself first. You have to be it right, like. So what do you need if you don't want them, if you don't want this? And she was very aware. She was like, I would never do that to my kids, but like, but you are because you're teaching them like that.
Speaker 2:That's what you're teaching them there's a mom, I know she's an alcoholic and she doesn't want her kids to drink, and it's like, well, you know so that the math is not method, and it's like, you know, I I'm like you're very worried that they're gonna do this, but it starts with you, right, they see it, they're around it, you're modeling it literally for them.
Speaker 1:It really I didn't even think about like the whole body shaming thing. But you're exactly right, like if you don't want your kids to be like upset with their body, then you kind of have to work on that yourself. Like you can't be like, well, it's okay that I am not happy with my body, but you can be happy with yours.
Speaker 2:Well, and as somebody who has been a trainer, a personal trainer, I've seen so many women be like, oh my God, my six-year-old. She's been having these, like you know, picking apart her body and asking about calories and and worried about food, and I don't know where she got that from and I go you. She got it from you? Yeah, she didn't. Yes, there's, there's TV, there's all of these things, but she got it because it's in the home.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I don't think people realize how much of an impact you have on your kids. Yeah, like their brains are developing during that.
Speaker 2:That should be in itself so much motivation to heal. It really should, but anyways sometimes it's not.
Speaker 1:I digress Not asking for help is not a flex. Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I kind of used to be like that.
Speaker 1:It's like the Brene Brown, like vulnerability her talk on vulnerability on Netflix, which, if you haven't watched it, highly recommend. Did you ever watch it? No, oh my God, it's so fucking good, but it's it's. It's literally like just being a human sometimes is knowing that that you can't do it all alone and that we need community and that it's okay to ask for help and, as hard as that seems, it's not a flex to act like you can do it all. I think that's the thing too.
Speaker 2:Well and congratulations, you're burnt out Right. Congratulations, you are running on that empty tank.
Speaker 1:Yes, Like what is that doing for you in the long run?
Speaker 2:But I do also understand that sometimes people genuinely like don't have help. That's true too, you know, so that can be hard. That's true too, you know, so, um, that can be hard. That's true too, but yeah, there, that's not a black and white, but it's not a black, and white answer.
Speaker 2:But but have it. That's what goes with having that awareness of like. If there are people who are like hey, you know, I see you're really busy. If you need me to help babysit your kid or you need help with this like, just let me know, take them up on it.
Speaker 1:Well, okay, I can even, like, take this um a step down and say like even you know my husband, he is the meat freak in the house and does the dishes when he, when they're piling up in the sink and it doesn't bother me, cause I grew up with a hoarder Um, but it bothers him, so he's always doing it and he's like nobody ever helps. But it bothers him, so he's always doing it and he's like nobody ever helps. And I'm like, well, you can ask me to do the dishes and I'll do the dishes. Like I just don't think about it the way you think about it, but also like it's our kids have chores and he said that too. Like, well, I shouldn't have to ask them to do it, though, and I'm like, because they're kids, right, so like you're making it harder on yourself because you're not you're doing them, because you say it's easier to just do them yourself than asking for help. But like, really, you're not doing anybody any favors anybody, right? Not yourself, not our kids, not me, right? Like I don't know when you're drowning.
Speaker 1:So you know, I need you to communicate that, yeah, if I can take something off your plate, like even if I don't think about it and you need help, like tell me and I'll take it off your plate. Yeah, if I can. Yeah, so asking for help, okay? Um, we already did this a little bit. I did hustle culture. Um, we didn't do hustle culture, we did um workaholic.
Speaker 2:So same thing thing um being hard on yourself yeah um, it's not a flex well, and it's like most of us grew up being hard on ourselves and shaming ourselves for things or feelings or whatever, and it's like where did that get us?
Speaker 1:there's a book called try softer. I love that I recommend to a lot of people, because I think a lot of people gaslight themselves out of their feelings and emotions because they're like I shouldn't feel this way and I should be stronger than this and I need to snap out of this. Or you could be a little bit softer and give yourself a little bit more grace and say it's okay that I'm feeling this way. Yeah, and that goes such a long way.
Speaker 2:I often hear I should be so grateful. Yeah, you know, I'm not starving in. Africa. Yeah Well, I mean, your experience is your experience, right, and you're here to have a human experience and to have a human experience you're going to feel all sorts of things and those are still valid. There are multiple things can be valid at the same time.
Speaker 1:I've never done it. I hate it so much because it's like if you miss one thing, if you mess one thing up, you have to start over. And when we did our thing with Michaela last year and she was just like, if you want to have a cheat meal, have a cheat meal. It's like right, you're human, like give yourself a little bit of grace. That goes such a long way. Then being like, oh, I've messed up, I got to start over. You know, when I was, when she gave me permission to work out two days a week, I was like, okay, thank you. It's like we're waiting on people to give us, we're waiting on permission to be soft on ourselves, and I don't think we should wait on that permission.
Speaker 2:I think we can be softer on ourselves without someone telling us yeah, when, um, when we went, or when I was in high school, um, and I was deep in my bulimia. I was very hard on other people, but that was because I was so hard on myself so I projected it onto everyone else. So that was, you know, being bulimic. When everyone, after a basketball game, they would be eating pizza, I wouldn't eat anything at all. That would be eating lunch in the locker room instead of in the lunchroom. That would be working out when I wake up, go to practice after school and then working out when I get home oh yeah, to practice after school and then working out when I get home. Oh yeah, like when I say I was hard on myself, like I really mean physically, emotionally, like I pushed myself very and I went full, transparency, full, went into the fitness industry so I could continue being hard on my, on my body and where'd that get you.
Speaker 2:Um, I'm not in the fitness industry anymore.
Speaker 1:And I mean. What did we learn last year too? Like the, the way that you went hard did more damage to your body than good.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I have way more hormonal and gut issues than you do because I was so hard on my body for so long.
Speaker 1:I know a lot of people in the fitness world who have a lot of hormonal and gut issues, but they're not not doing what they're doing because they are like well, it's just normal to have all these hormone issues.
Speaker 2:And now ios. What is that? Biosis, like all of these things like dysbiosis, high cortisol yeah, you went a little too hard there, a little too hard.
Speaker 1:I'm like here, I am like, oh, so it's a good thing that I didn't like I've never been into working out. I think there's's balance, right, and I mean I'm kidding, but I was just like oh damn, and I would have thought that you would have been the healthiest. No, that's crazy. So yeah, not a flex.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which it's, it's so it's so conditioned in me that being soft has been really hard to channel working on it. Yeah, but it's. It does not come natural to me to channel working on it, yeah, but it's.
Speaker 1:It does not come natural to me. So, um, some of these, I'm going to just throw past skin past them, because they're kind of the same things being repeated, grinding past work hours, workaholic being the yes person, people pleaser. Um, this is another one doing it all super wife, super mom, super employee, super friend, super woman. I, super woman.
Speaker 2:I feel like that's not a flag.
Speaker 1:I feel like that falls into a lot of different categories, because that falls into people pleasing that falls into workaholic hustle culture.
Speaker 2:That falls into being the yes person. We are not meant to do it all like that. That follows into falls into also trying to fit in and be normal instead of like showing up as your authentic self and being honest with yourself.
Speaker 1:When you need a break, you need a break. Yeah, sometimes one of those balls has to fall that you're trying to juggle to keep the other ones up.
Speaker 2:Well, and you know, when my business closed, I was like, oh my God, I'm a failure, I quit I, you know, I. How can I live with myself? What am I going to do with my life? And it felt so awful in the moment and I felt like such a complete loser and like I quit something or failed something, when it was the best redirection that has ever happened in my life. It was so necessary. So, although it felt low and there was a lot of shame in the moment, looking back three years now I'm like holy shit, bitch, how'd you do that for that long?
Speaker 1:Right, it's like going through that uncomfortable change is always the hardest part. Like it's so hard because you don't see the other side of it yet. Tony, it's always hard.
Speaker 2:Tony always says you will be ready to change when the nervousness of what the change is outweighs the like comfort of being the same. Yeah, so it's like, yes, there is a discomfort and an anxiety with change and an anxiety with change, but also I'd rather have that than feel the discomfort of staying the same and doing the same thing. That is obviously not working for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a lot, so much To hold on to. Yeah, I've always heard this thing about like everybody has these balls that they're juggling and let's say, one is your work, one is your family, one is your friends, one is your mental health, one is your need to rest all these things, and you've got to decide which one, which ones are rubber and which ones are glass. And so sometimes when you're juggling you've got to let some of those fall to hold those glass balls up, and sometimes those glass balls change Like sometimes you have a friend who really needs you and so that's gotta be a glass ball in the moment, and if your home life and your, your other stuff is good in that moment, it's okay to let that fall, to go grab this one. I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that, I love that.
Speaker 1:Um, oh, we already did this one. The hating men Yep, yeah, and vice versa. It works both ways, yep, like. You're not going to attract a King if you're not treating them like a King, and you're not going to be treated like a queen If you're not treating them like a king, and you're not going to be treated like a queen if you're not treating them like. It works both ways, really does. Yeah, somebody said how much I could drink in a night. It's not a flex oh that's a good one.
Speaker 1:I didn't even think about because we don't really drink. You're like, yeah, I never get drunk. I have a really high tolerance.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's not a flex. Yeah, you've built that up Well. And to like, so many people are like I'm worried about doing mushrooms, yeah, and or I had this bad experience because I used it incorrectly Emphasis on the incorrectly and I'm like um, I've seen you get fucked up up, puking guts out Laying in your puke. Yeah, piss yourself. Like, do the craziest shit while you've been drunk and be hung over for three days to then, the very next weekend, do it again. And it did nothing for you. It served nothing for you. So like, let's come on.
Speaker 1:There's something there that you're not saying that you're afraid of let's come on, there's something there that you're not saying that you're afraid of. Um, this next one my travels. They said what's the flex? That it's not a flex. That used to think was my travels. I grew up with more money than my fiance and friends. I can see how that's not the flex you thought it was, because not everybody grows up with money and not, I think there's a lot of. What am I trying to say?
Speaker 2:Well, I guess. So you and I grew up poor, yeah, and so I have always had friends that had more money than me. And if someone came to me and they're like, oh, I do this and this and this and this and this, I'm like, well, you didn't do it, your mom and dad did it ah, okay, yeah, so it's like I, I, so I get what she's saying, because I'm like in my head, I'm like well, this isn't.
Speaker 2:You didn't buy this house. Your mom and dad bought it. You didn't buy this nice shit that you have, your mom and dad bought it. Yeah, call me when you earn it. I'm just kidding.
Speaker 1:I hear what she. It's just not the flex that she used to think it was. Yeah, um, and traveling also is not necessarily like a flex, because some of the best people I know have lived in the same towns their entire lives and they are big on community and big on helping others and you know, sometimes there's a little bit of there's some good stuff in small towns and both of us, coming from small towns, like I can say that there's a little bit of good there. I think it's good to like have both.
Speaker 2:Yes, I was going to say. I think traveling is also amazing, though, cause you're learning different cultures, you're learning how different people live. Um, if you're truly going and like seeing the world, not just staying in the five-star resorts.
Speaker 2:Every day, everywhere you're going, you're seeing you know different ways of life and different perspectives, and I think that can be really beneficial. Um, I've even thought of, like when Kai turns 18, instead of him going to college, like letting him travel for a year travel the world, yeah, so then he can. I think that would be such a great learning experience. But also, it's just with everything, it's it's balance and it's not black and white.
Speaker 1:It's not black and white. We keep saying that it really isn't. Someone else also said this. It's funny because two different women said being superwoman. She said being able to handle everything, aka being superwoman.
Speaker 1:I swear to God the people that I know who on the outside are doing it all. You know that in my industry, when I would sit down on the table with someone for 30 minutes to an hour doing a service on them, we got deep. Not one of them was happy. They were the ones who did it all and had it all, but they would be crying on my table.
Speaker 1:Sarah used to always like make fun of me because, like you know, I'd be in the room with someone for 30 minutes and we'd both come out crying and she's like what the fuck do you guys talk about in there, like what is going on? And I'm like well, it started out an eyebrow wax, but like I, you know, I got to know people on a deep, deep, deep level. So, if anything, I know firsthand because of my own life and experience that sometimes the people who look like they have it all together are the ones struggling the most. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I've talked to them. I've been that person, I've witnessed those people. So just because you're doing it all and like, who are you doing it all for?
Speaker 2:Yeah, why? Yeah, and what's interesting and I've noticed it with you, not anytime recently, but in the past a lot of people that are like that. So, let's say, they're really stressed that they're doing it all. So then you give them a lifeline and you're like, well, have you asked your husband to help you clean the house? And they're like, well, no, he wouldn't do it. Right, right or no, I'm not gonna let him, you know, decorate this because they won't do it right. It's like, well, yeah, you have to learn to let go of your need of control, yeah you can't control everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was actually. We were just talking about this the other day with. I was talking about with a friend because she was talking about how she is like so OCD, about like her Christmas trees that's what I was meaning by you is your fucking Christmas tree?
Speaker 1:yeah, and I was like, and I used to be that way and it didn't happen overnight. No, the change didn't happen overnight. But let me tell you, every year it's gotten a little less extreme, a little more relaxed, like jason would make fun of me, because like we had the pretty tree and we had the ugly tree. And don't you dare put those handmade ornaments on my pretty tree. This is the pretty pink one. I wouldn't even let my kids decorate it because they would put the things in the wrong place.
Speaker 2:You and you did that with me, I did. Yeah, but again.
Speaker 1:that was two years ago I know I'm just saying like, little by little I have gotten so much better. So, like last year, you know, I let Elle put put the decorations on and I didn't go behind her and move them. Yeah, that's when you and I did our tree. I didn't go behind her and move anything. I was like, well, there's a little cluster right there, that's about my daughter's height, and they're all clumped together. But I'm going to leave it and it's going to be fine. And this year we didn't even do an ugly tree and I let them put their ugly ornaments on my pretty tree.
Speaker 2:I think that's amazing, because here's what I think about Christmas too. I think Christmas should also be kind of ugly. Yeah, it should be messy and like there should be. You should like when we.
Speaker 1:I want my kids to enjoy, right, like I'm, like it's a tradition, help me put this tree up. But then, if I'm like bitching at them the entire time because they're not doing it right, they're not going to have good memories of that and they're not going to enjoy it, right.
Speaker 2:Right and we've gotten so into the aesthetic of things. Yeah, fuck that. But I'm like the point of Christmas is so the kids can put ornaments on the Christmas tree and you know, kind of it'd be fun. Yeah, I've come a long way, yeah, you have, but yeah, I, I put something on the tree, I put an ornament on the tree and you're like, um, yeah, I'm going to move it just over here.
Speaker 1:Like I'm that person who, like takes a step back and looks at it and squints my eyes to like see if there's any holes in it, and then I like step back in and I move things around. But I'm not that bad anymore. And so this is what I was telling this person. I was like it doesn't happen overnight. It happens little by little, and even Jason was like bragging about me letting the kids put things on the tree this year.
Speaker 2:Well, and when you really think about it, it's not that deep, it really isn't. It's when you're on your deathbed Are you going to be like? Be like. You know what I really regret letting my kids decorate a tree and it looked funky as fuck.
Speaker 1:yeah no, so the aesthetics of everything is just.
Speaker 2:That's a, that's a that's going to be a good memory you know right right. If anything, it's going to be a wonderful memory.
Speaker 1:I'm okay with that. Yeah, okay, um pulling all-nighters. That'll fall into the workaholic category, um being the breadwinner.
Speaker 1:It's not the flex you think it is and I can say this now. I could I could have said it before but I think, um, for a long time my husband and I were equals in the money financial department and now department. And now that I'm not working, we're not. But I do so much more now than I ever had the capacity to do before, like I do way more running around with the kids, way more cleaning and cooking, and I don't think I ever aspired to be that. I never wanted to be like the stay at home housewife, the stay at home mom. I always wanted to work and make my own that. I never wanted to be like the stay-at-home housewife, the stay-at-home mom. I always wanted to work and make my own money.
Speaker 1:I swear to God, this is harder. I'm not saying the other one wasn't hard also. They were both hard in very different ways. When I was the workaholic, I missed a lot of my kids' field trips and I missed a lot of their afterschool activities and I missed out on a lot of things. And I'm getting to do those things now and I wouldn't trade that for the world. I like doing this so much better, but I feel just as busy as I did before. So it's like the trade-off is like being the whole breadwinner, like, yes, my husband is now the breadwinner of the family, but like what I do is also priceless, and I think you can say the same thing, like you agree.
Speaker 2:Right, well, it's, it's when, um, when Kai first came into our lives, I had two weeks off.
Speaker 1:Not a lot of time, no.
Speaker 2:And it's not a lot of time to form a bond with a child and it's changed a lot and now I get to take him to the park. We do have a lot of bonding time, Like he is very close to both his mom and his dad and I love it because I'm like I'm getting to raise my child.
Speaker 1:And this is a no way saying anything to the moms who are also working.
Speaker 2:Yes, I feel like to like. It's a difference. Yes, I feel like sometimes you're damned if you do, damned if you don't't whatever you do as a woman this is just with that whole breadwinner thing.
Speaker 1:Right, I am right. Okay, now that I am not bringing in money and feeling equal to my husband, because I believe that what I am doing has value. Yeah, yeah, so much value. Yeah, so, both of them.
Speaker 2:Well, and I understand wanting to go to work and have a break, to then come back and be a better parent, like it is very dependent on the family, the situation, the mom, all of that.
Speaker 1:Allie Wong is a comedian, I know her.
Speaker 1:Like when she went back to work after having her baby and people are like you came back to work so soon, she was like if I didn't, my baby would be in the dumpster. Like I have to miss her to love her. Yeah, like I get that. So I get that too, and sometimes it's just a different kind of hard because I am overwhelmed and I don't get breaks the way that I used to like. Work used to be my break from my kids and now I I don't get that the way that I used to. So it's, it's a different kind of hard.
Speaker 1:Um, you already said this, never changing yourself or your opinions. Somebody that was one of them. Um, thinking you know everything and not willing to learn from anyone else. Thinking you know everything and not willing to learn from anyone else. That's kind of the same thing. But I want to say Aristotle, I think, is who said this no-transcript, and I think there's a lot of people out there and my husband used to be one of those people who thought that he couldn't learn anything from me because I didn't have a college degree. And I'm like you could actually learn so fucking much from me if you were open to learning from me, but you think because you're smarter. I have nothing to show you or to offer you.
Speaker 2:And you have nothing to learn from me.
Speaker 1:One way right.
Speaker 2:This is the back to that IQ and emotional intelligence thing, like, and I think he would say now, like I've learned a lot from you, which he has. Oh, he would say that, yeah, being happy all the time.
Speaker 1:We already said that being in mesh with immediate family, that's a hard one. Let me bring something up that, um, somebody said to me a couple years ago when it bothered me and I didn't say anything, but it stuck with me because several years ago I didn't have a relationship with my family and it's still very strained. But they were talking about meeting someone who didn't have a related meaning, a someone who didn't have a related meaning, a guy who didn't have a relationship with his family and she said it was a red flag.
Speaker 2:I've heard that so so many times. People have said that to me like they, they're not close with their mom and dad, so I'm judging. I'm like how is that a red flag? You have no idea what happened to them and they can't help how they grew up. In this situation I was like don't think it's a red flag at all. I hate that so much, that cause I was that person who got judged for that. Yeah, because people would say I don't know, she, she doesn't have a dad. Yeah, so you're putting that on me Right, like literally, go fuck yourself.
Speaker 1:Right there, I just think that, like being enmeshed with your family is not the flex that you think it is, and I'll even take it back, even though my relationship with my family was very strained. I saw my husband's family and was just like, wow, what a great family they're together. They're together. They have, like you know, monthly family dinners.
Speaker 2:Like you, know monthly family dinners, and little did I fucking know that it was the most toxic family system I have ever witnessed in my entire life. Oh, I would argue that there are so many family systems where they're toxic as fuck. Yeah, the dynamics are so, so toxic, and then they stay together because that's what you do, yeah, and looking, no one breaks the pattern.
Speaker 1:no one breaks the cycle, and when you do, you get outcast so you know, it's just interesting because I was the black sheep and the outcast of my family and I was seeking that like family structure and then I thought I found it and realized it was even worse than what I had growing up. So that's not a flex Like it's great if you're close with your family. It's just not the flex, that like it's not a red flag if you're not. I don't think no, there's a story there, 100%.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I want to know it. There's two more. Do we? We have time. We'll go through them quickly. Somebody said wearing expensive clothes or overpriced sneakers, and I'm so sorry, but I feel a little bit attacked.
Speaker 2:I under sneaker.
Speaker 1:I'm a sneaker head.
Speaker 2:I oh my God but.
Speaker 1:I agree to an extent. It is not a flex to have the designer shit. I understand that and I will also say of my shit comes from Amazon and I used to be a Lululemon only girl, yeah. So I understand what this person is saying. Um, I am always finding good shit on Amazon. These sweatpants, like, are the best sweatpants I've ever owned and they came from Amazon. There are not a name brand. If anything, I prefer like Amazon shit over name brand stuff. Now, that's not how I used to be.
Speaker 1:No but I don't know if I can give up my sneakers. That's okay. Listen, I'm healing, I'm not healed. Hey, yeah, like I love my sneakers, I can't help it. And here's the thing. We're also not into designer purses. I'm not into, like, designer label clothes. I've got designer purses and there's nothing wrong with that, but like I just I agree with what this person's saying. It's not a flex.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Right, you can have high quality things that aren't designer. Right, you really can. Absolutely, absolutely. I don't know you got anything to add to that, just felt a little bit of time.
Speaker 2:No, I think. I think it's very valid. I think you can still have those things and maybe still be humble about them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so Well. And like the purse thing. Like I have friends who like designer, it's just I never gave. I never gave a shit about designer purses.
Speaker 2:Like I will carry stuff from target or Amazon, I don't care about that, it's not the thing I care about, right, and what I'll say is I don't have many. I did it because I earned it.
Speaker 1:And I've had somebody say that to me before too, so it was like. Like.
Speaker 2:I'm like I don't want it because everybody else has it.
Speaker 1:I want it because I can afford it now, right, and that makes that makes sense too. Yeah, it's not because, like everybody else has it and I want it Right, even if it is that who cares, right, okay, but I get that, all right. And the last one I we could honestly do an episode on this, but it's like being a good friend and loyal, but without being honest, it's not a flex. Ah, this is the last one without being honest, without being on.
Speaker 2:I have, so I have to. I'm going to add to that.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:People who, like, aren't honest with you but then they, um, they like will gossip about, be about you behind your back and think that they're a good friend and they don't tell you what they're really thinking.
Speaker 1:I.
Speaker 2:I can't fucking stand that. I would much rather you come and say something to me, even if it's like oh shit, I didn't know you were feeling that way. Then just gossip behind my back and I'd have no idea you're talking about me.
Speaker 1:Let me I will try to give an example without giving details. Try to give an example without giving details, okay, um, a friend who, um, I would also consider a, um, a very proud people pleaser, because everybody loves this person. Um said something to me last year about I thought we were good friends and and I was like you've never been my friend, like you've talked shit about me behind my back, like you'll tell my husband like things about me. So you've never been my friend, but you're a person who collects friends and is the people pleaser and you're everybody's friend. A friend to everyone is not a friend.
Speaker 1:And even in that, in this person and some of their friendships, in that in this person and some of their friendships, this is where I struggle because, um, are you loyal to the people that you've known since you were 12 years old? Your idea of being loyal to them? Absolutely you are. But like you are letting these people come to you and bitch about their lives and bitch about their wives and their, the things that are going on in their lives, and you're like listening to them and you're letting them vent to you and then they leave and you're like god, that person's a mess, like he is doing a, b, c and d and you didn't say that one time to that person.
Speaker 1:You just let this person come over and vent and bitch and get drunk and you just listened and listened, and listened and not once did you ever look at this person and say, okay, but what are you doing? Like, why did she react that way? What are you doing to contribute to this? You're not being honest with this person and literally as soon as they leave, leave. You're talking about how much of a mess he is. That's not loyalty. Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. That is not loyalty. You're not telling, you're not holding this and again, you don't have to hold everybody accountable but like you consider this person a friend because you've known him since you were like 10 years old or however long, like I'm saying her too. Like, if you are not being honest with this person, you're not being as loyal as they think you are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a girl that I went to high school with and, um, all of these women from my hometown were talking about her drinking and how it was a problem.
Speaker 2:But it was in a way of like, oh my God, yeah, she was such a mess last night, so-and-so had to drive her home. Oh my God, she threw up and did this, this A, b, c, and I'm thinking and this was after I did my mushroom journey so I'm like, so all of you guys are partying with her or around her while she's drinking and on that level and and watching her self-destruct, but not saying, maybe the next day, like, hey, are you okay? Cause I'm going to be honest, I'm a little worried about you. I'm I'm like I want you to be all right, you don't say any of that, but then you're coming to me and telling me all of the stories about how she was a fucking shit show.
Speaker 2:Right, you are so not a friend, because if I were, if that were me, I would hope someone and I know the people that I have who are in my front row now they'd be like girl, I love you, but but like that was really unhealthy, like I'm a little worried about you and or I'm a little worried about what you're doing, or how you're living or you know, that's what I want and I've posted a lot of this because I am that friend who is honest, yeah, and I feel like those types of friends often get a lot of flack and again, you have to say it in the right way and delivery matters.
Speaker 2:I can't stress that enough. But I also think that the underrated friends are the ones who will tell you what you need to hear to your face, with love. With love because they love you and they want you to do well, yeah, so when you're not, they want to talk to you about it, because they want you to do big things and they want you to, you know, live a life of peace and they want you to be successful and they want you to grow and evolve. And, like when you're self-sabotaging, they're going to tell you that you are. They're not just going to think it and then say it behind your back or not say anything at all. I'm just saying I feel very.
Speaker 2:I feel very passionate about this one.
Speaker 1:Yes, you can step down off the soapbox now, but like that's a, that's a big one, it is yeah, but I.
Speaker 2:But I do think, though, that those types of friends, they're very underrated, and they do get a lot of flack because maybe the other person isn't willing to hear it, or whatever and if anything, all you're doing is enabling yeah, and that's not a good.
Speaker 1:All you're doing is enabling yeah, and that's not a good friend, like you were enabling this person's behavior by letting them continue doing it without saying hey, sharon, I don't know. I think you're kind of creating this problem and there is something you can do about it, and you know you're not really doing it and I'm worried about you. Yeah, that's a friend, that is a friend, that's a friend. So, being the person, being the friend who's loyal but like without being honest, like that's not loyal, that's not loyal.
Speaker 1:You're not loyal. That's the thing. You think you're loyal because you've been their friend. It's not loyalty, yeah.
Speaker 2:To me, it's not about time, it's about the quality of that friendship. That was it. That was a lot.
Speaker 1:We were like let's keep it under 45. Here we are An hour and 45. My bad. We had a lot of people message us. Listen, we get a lot of shit to say. We had a lot of shit to say. So, yeah, next time you think you're flexing, maybe do a little reflection and say is this really a flex or is this something that, like, I always looked or I thought was like a really good quality to have, or is this just a really bad coping skill? Whoops, got your coping skill. All right, that's all we got. I'm about to pee my pants. Okay, gotta let you go To all of our listeners. If you've ever experienced anything like this or you are growing and healing and learning that, like, maybe the thing that you thought was a really cool thing isn't like, let us know in the comment section. Whatever, and for everybody else, stay curious, be open, we'll see you on the other side. Bye.