Let's talk about emotions, particularly the strong ones like anger. We've journeyed through the wilderness of our rage, recognizing the guilt and shame that often latch onto such feelings. We shed light on how these intense emotions could sometimes be misdiagnosed as conditions like bipolar disorder or borderline personality disorder and share our personal experiences navigating this often misunderstood terrain. We believe in the power of self-advocacy and the right to be angry and refuse to be unheard.
In the spirit of open discussions, we're also touching on societal issues that often go unaddressed. Ever thought about the harm in complimenting a woman on her weight? Or the complexities of mother-daughter relationships shaped by societal norms? We dive deep into these conversations, sharing personal anecdotes, profound realizations, and even a fun game of 36 Questions. And because we're believers of continuous learning, we wrap things up by sharing our favorite reads that have helped us on our personal journey. So, join us. Let's keep exploring knowledge and staying curious together.
The Heroine's Journey: https://amzn.to/3tA1dFX
36 Questions to Fall In Love: https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/36-questions-to-fall-in-love
Colors
Use code OTHERSIDE15 for 15% off of our favorite mushroom gummies!
Our Website:
https://linktr.ee/seeyouontheothersidepodcast
Let's talk about emotions, particularly the strong ones like anger. We've journeyed through the wilderness of our rage, recognizing the guilt and shame that often latch onto such feelings. We shed light on how these intense emotions could sometimes be misdiagnosed as conditions like bipolar disorder or borderline personality disorder and share our personal experiences navigating this often misunderstood terrain. We believe in the power of self-advocacy and the right to be angry and refuse to be unheard.
In the spirit of open discussions, we're also touching on societal issues that often go unaddressed. Ever thought about the harm in complimenting a woman on her weight? Or the complexities of mother-daughter relationships shaped by societal norms? We dive deep into these conversations, sharing personal anecdotes, profound realizations, and even a fun game of 36 Questions. And because we're believers of continuous learning, we wrap things up by sharing our favorite reads that have helped us on our personal journey. So, join us. Let's keep exploring knowledge and staying curious together.
The Heroine's Journey: https://amzn.to/3tA1dFX
36 Questions to Fall In Love: https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/36-questions-to-fall-in-love
Colors
Use code OTHERSIDE15 for 15% off of our favorite mushroom gummies!
Our Website:
https://linktr.ee/seeyouontheothersidepodcast
What's up, bitch?
Speaker 2:What's up?
Speaker 1:It's been so long, so long, way too long. We were supposed to have an interview today, but there was a little miscommunication, error with time. So here we are, just me and you, it's me and you, but it's been a while, it's been too long, but in the great words of Larsa Pippin, let's get it popping. Is that what she says?
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's get it popping. So I think we should do a quick life update. This is where we've been the last month. I think people, because episodes come out weekly, they don't realize that we spend a lot of time apart, yeah, and we have spent a lot of time apart, yeah. So I was in Cabo last month, and then I get back and then you leave, I know, and then before I left for Cabo, you were gone for two weeks.
Speaker 1:Well, and then my son, his school got delayed five weeks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then they went on fall breaks.
Speaker 1:I was about to have a menti-bee. I did. You did have a. I did have a mental breakdown.
Speaker 2:Not funny.
Speaker 1:Not funny, but.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you were holding on by a thread for a little bit I was.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we are doing a microdosing group now and that has really helped. Good Having that community and having that support and getting on a protocol, and also I've gotten back into the structure. That's something I really realized too during that time period is having ADHD. I don't know if other ADHDers relate to this, but I am not. I'm terrible at implementing structure, but I have to have structure and when I don't have it, I really, really struggle with my mental health.
Speaker 2:So that is so interesting to me because I feel like we've talked a lot about your ADHD and we haven't really touched on my thing. But I'm pretty sure I have the ADD. I'm just not the way that you are. I'm not hyperactive, you know what I mean. I'm not like, oh squirrel, I do have a hard time staying on task Focused on task yes.
Speaker 2:And on one thing and I probably have a million tabs open at the same time in my head and on my computer and on my phone- yeah, but don't you think, especially in this era, almost all of us have a little bit of ADD, adhd.
Speaker 1:Now I get mine's probably more extreme than others, because I have weird quirks about myself. If there is a song I like, if I'm in the car I will listen to it over and over and over and over and over again, or it is hard for me to sit still.
Speaker 2:But I think that there is. So I think there's a lot of layers to this. I think a lot of it might come from trauma and wanting to disassociate, or I think a lot of times it's hard to focus. But I think some of it also is our environment and our phones and the things that we're training our brains to get one hit of dopamine after another. So it's really hard. I remember during quarantine my kids were so mad at me because I was working every day, but not during quarantine. But when we opened back up, my husband was working from home and I would be like I don't want them on YouTube or TikTok, I would rather them watch a movie. And I had Friday Documentary Day. I was like here's a list of documentaries that I want them to watch Every Friday. I want you to watch one of these and then when I come home I'll ask you questions about it. And it was little things for kids. I looked up documentaries that are good for kids, not the type of shit I would watch.
Speaker 1:They weren't watching how to Change your Mind. Fantastic Fungi, no, no.
Speaker 2:I actually think I did make them watch Fantastic Fungi.
Speaker 1:Fantastic Fungi is OK.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, For kids, totally that's a family feel good. But no, I was having them watch these things and he was like, well, how is that any different? I was like it's so different First off, watching a movie over shorts and clips on YouTube. It gives you there's a plot, there's a storyline, there's this whole thing that you have to focus on. But I remember, like vines, remember vines. Oh my god, I love vines.
Speaker 2:Like the sixth second yes, but so I think that not all of it is from trauma. I think there's a lot of it that is environmental in the way that we are in society today.
Speaker 1:Well, and it is hard because I feel like everything now kind of has to be done on your phone yeah, like we our businesses on our social media, like and so I really struggle with that part too, where I feel like I have to show up and post or say something, and sometimes I don't know what to say or I don't have words, and I feel this pressure that I have to show up in a certain way for other people where I think I need to work on, just like, if I need to take a time out, take a time out, and if I don't have anything to say, I don't have anything to say, and that's okay.
Speaker 2:So you need to like tap into your Cali unapologetic, because there's nothing to apologize for energy.
Speaker 1:On to the next point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I think that that's like that's a big lesson, is like being unapologetic about not taking up space when you don't have the capacity to Like. I cannot show up for you right now. I cannot show up on Instagram the way that I usually do, and I am just taking a little knee break and I think that it's important that we focus on that and we are like yeah, I think it's hard, though, because people do look to us.
Speaker 1:It's hard.
Speaker 2:We've already like a hard balance. It is hard, but we have already said like we are going into 2024. Rested, we are not going to burn out, because it's always around this time of year that I start to feel the burnout. Yeah, and same with you. Yes, but especially with this, I think that it's super important that we stay on track. Yeah, and not in like. Like we have to stay on track, but it's like we have to make sure that we're taking care of ourselves, so it allows other people the space to take care of themselves.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I told you this because you know for our listeners who don't know we're going to take a break in November, december and January.
Speaker 2:Yeah, those are the times we and I struggle the most and I love that we struggle the most around the same time, so it's not like taking two breaks a year.
Speaker 1:Well, also like I think holidays are hard for everybody. True, I hate winter, I'm just. I don't like being cold, I don't like being pale. Seasonal depression for a reason. Yeah, no, I am Checkmark on that. I am depressed in the winter for sure, like I am not meant to be in these conditions.
Speaker 2:You are not. You are not a little island girl.
Speaker 1:But when we take that break I really stand by this that we still get together if we are feeling up for it and do things that like fill our cup, that are self care, yeah, and we do meet up yeah, because it is a hard time. But whenever we take these long breaks from each other, whenever we see each other again, we're like oh my God, I miss you so much. We should not be apart from each other for that long.
Speaker 2:Tell me the lie. There's no lie there, but I also think it's because Because I have to get out of the house too it forces you out of the house. But I also think like being around someone who is energetically at the same level that you are, who is also uplifting, who is also like going to hold you accountable, who is also someone that creates a safe space for you to like cry to like. You know what I mean, like Well, and we talk a lot about like evolving in a romantic relationship.
Speaker 1:I don't think we talk enough about We've talked about falling out with friends and things like that. I don't think we talk and we've talked enough about like when you have a friend where you're both healing and evolving together. It's powerful. It is powerful.
Speaker 2:I have, like one other friend that is I don't want to say one. There's a few friends that I have that are like growing with me, yeah, and they know who they are and it's it's, it's a powerful friendship. It's very different than anything that I've ever had. So they're like, when we do see each other, I'm just like this I missed having these type of interactions, soul friendships, yeah, like twin flames. I don't know how I feel about this. Yeah, that also like brings me back outside of myself.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:When I don't have someone like that, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah Okay, so you just brought up Cali energy. Yeah Okay, for listeners. Let's go into that, let's go into that a little bit.
Speaker 2:Do you need a Google? No, okay, you got this. I think. I think I can do it, or maybe, like, let me read what I wrote earlier for our Instagram post.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:I'm going to feed off from that. Okay, so we have. I have opened up and been honest about my raging incidents I don't even want to call them incidents Like my rage spells, like my rage, my fucking rage, and how it was really hard for me to open up about it until I realized what it was and where it was coming from, and that was powerful for me. Like this is something new for me. I'd never experienced anything like this before. I have always been the type of person who doesn't do well with confrontation. I don't stand up for myself, I cower in a corner.
Speaker 1:And I want to elaborate on that.
Speaker 2:Go for it.
Speaker 1:There are times when Leah tells me about situations or people that she's struggling with, and I tell her this all the time that I just want to morph into her body and speak for her. Yeah, because she'll tell me something, and then she'll tell me, like her response back.
Speaker 2:I'm like Leah, like yeah, it's hard Like I, and I know that like, and sometimes I'm like come on. Girl come into my body and do that for me, if I could come into you. Okay, hang on, let me rewind.
Speaker 1:Let me backtrack. Okay, this would be a very different podcast. I heard it You're a boss, okay, let me try again. That was awesome If I could morph into your ball team and speak for you and be like listen, you're not going to talk to me that way, you're not going to treat me that way, I'm not going to put up with that, right, here's how this is going to go. I wish I could do that. I wish I could do that. I wish I could do that.
Speaker 2:How many times have we joked about like you being the feral cat energy and me being the golden retriever?
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:And you are not even joking about it. But like, how many times have we also said, like your journey has been stepping out of your masculine and into your feminine and mine has been to be more masculine yes, I'm too soft, I'm too vulnerable and I don't know how to be hard and tough. So it's, it's what, and I think that that's why we work so well together, because there's like that, you know, yes, I love that you named that group, but photo album that, by the way. So it's been a journey for me, but I have this. This energy has continued to show up for me. I had recently done ketamine treatments and in one of the integration sessions he's my therapist suggested I name my rage, and so I did. But I was like I don't know what's a name, or like I feel like I'm like I remember, like asking you, like I don't know, like I know I need to do that, but I don't know how to name her.
Speaker 2:Cause. What's your rage's name? Tammy, Tammy. But he's gonna fuck you up in the back of the Walmart, yeah.
Speaker 1:But that was pre healing. That's just my alter ego, tammy. When Tammy comes out, watch out, tammy, I mess around. And again, that that was you are flight. I was fight, yeah.
Speaker 2:I was on. Yeah, yeah, I fond a lot. Yeah, you're right, it's. Anybody showed any amount of aggression or like inkling that they were going to leave me. I would be like crawling on my knees like please don't leave me. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1:Oh, my God, where I'm like. Tammy, let's go. Girls, let's get this bitch.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's go girls. So it has been really difficult for me, because the first time that this showed up for me I was like what the fuck was that? Like? There was a lot of shame, there was a lot of guilt, there was a lot of like thinking something was wrong with me, and there was when you first told me that I did not feel that way. You didn't feel like there was something you were like good for you yeah kind of you know why why?
Speaker 1:Because it might not have been in the way that you wanted it to come out. I was just happy it came out, yeah, and it felt good when it came out.
Speaker 2:I was proud of you that it came out. It really did. It felt really really good when it came out. But when it first comes out, is it going to come out good? No, I've got to learn. Exactly, I've got to learn it. It's kind of like your first time being vulnerable. Yeah, like was that hard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm like uh, feelings you're safe, Relax, you don't need to stop anybody.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, this is like this is a new thing for me, but the more I leaned into it, the more I sat with it, the more I tried to understand it. And I don't think there's like four levels of awareness and we talked a little bit about that with Tony in our last episode but there's like an awareness of like I keep doing this thing. And then there's like the awareness of like understanding why and where it's coming from, and that's where I tend to go and a lot of people don't go there. A lot of people are like that's just how I am, right, I even when they're like well, that's just how I am, because this is what happened to me as a kid, but that's just not, that's not true. That's just simply not true. So I had to sit with it and understand it on such a deep level that I feel I felt like I had finally reeled it in.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so that's where we're going with this. I you know so. Did you realize? It happened four times once a month, every month, three times, three times every month during my luteal phase. I'm not saying that has anything to do with it, I'm just saying it probably played a part also but there was more to it.
Speaker 1:Also miss fun. Anytime it happened, or anytime like someone was testing you, you would text me and be like, oh, say better not catch me in my luteal phase. And I'm like Tell me you're not a fighter, without telling me you're not a fighter Because they found intimidating. Right? If somebody was like, oh, you just wait until I'm in my luteal phase and then I'm going to get you, I'd be like, wow. I'd be like, wow, I'm shaking in my boots, tiffany.
Speaker 2:Tammy, okay. So I felt like I reeled it in and I even explained to my husband like this is why they're happening. I feel like I am going back to that place where I'm not being heard and I don't. I don't like that. So I started reading up on it. I saw a picture that I resonated with and if you guys follow us on YouTube and watch our stories like or watch our content, you'll see on the wall behind us like there are three paintings from an amazing artist. Her name is Stella.
Speaker 1:Incredible.
Speaker 2:She's incredible and I really resonate with everything she does. Like everything she does, I'm like, well, I need that. Like even their names like one is like grief and and healing and one is like astral projection. So anyway, I've also got like three more over there that we haven't hung.
Speaker 2:But she starts working on this painting and I she starts posting teasers of it and I'm like, oh my God, I'm buying that when she finishes it, because that is my rage. And she was doing little sneak peeks and it's this like devil woman, like crawling out of like a fucking fire, I don't know. Like yeah, like there's just this like energy and I'm like I don't know what this painting is, but I want it. I don't know what it is, but I want it my life motto, because it reminds me of my rage. Like that's what it feels like when I go into those dark, dark places. And then she finally posts a sneak peek and she's like Kali energy. Like has anybody else been feeling this Kali energy? And I was like what the fuck is Kali energy? So I Google it.
Speaker 1:And obviously.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, oh my God, my God. I texted you freaking out. I was like I'm naming my rage Kali, and this is why she is a Hindu goddess. Let me read this, okay she's a Hindu goddess who is a complex figure of many contrasting traits, all of which are equally worthy of expressions of female strength. This is my like. First off, if you ever Google her, she's like holding up heads that she's cut off of people Sounds like my kind of bitch. I mean, she is like fierce as fuck, like terrifying, but she's misunderstood because she is protecting the people she loves. She is like fierce, but fiercely protective she is protecting the people she loves and that she cares about. She is an equal parts creator and destroyer. She is unapologetic because she doesn't even consider that there should be anything to apologize for. Boom, she's the ultimate expression of nature. She's destructive and benevolent. I love that, yeah.
Speaker 1:I love that.
Speaker 2:It's like both sides of the coin here. She protects her people against evil by doing what others cannot do to protect the one she loves. She transcends good and evil. So the more I read into this goddess, the more I'm like there's a reason for my rage. This is coming up because it's been suppressed, it's been hidden, it's been shamed for so long, like, don't be this, don't, don't let your anger out, don't do that. So then in Cabo, I was reading this book, the Heroine's Journey, and at this point I'd gone several months without raging and I even remember bragging about it to my husband.
Speaker 1:I was like we've been doing.
Speaker 2:When was the last time you had a cigarette? And he was like it's been a few months and I was like probably the last time I raged. Because he stresses out when it happens, because when it happens it's hard for me to get back down to earth. Well, you probably scare him, I terrify him and I get it Like it terrifies me, I get it. So you know I'm bragging about like it's been so long since I've raged. I think I finally got it under control here I am thinking like I've got this all figured out after three times of doing it in my entire life and other women like you are like oh, I've been doing that my whole fucking life.
Speaker 1:What are you talking about? Come on Really.
Speaker 2:Really, it's just so new and unnatural for me. I felt like, well, I'm reading this book, the Heroine's Journey, and it comes up in that journey or in that book, and I'm like Jesus Christ, this is like a whole thing.
Speaker 1:Callie comes up.
Speaker 2:Callie comes up and the energy of Callie and in the Heroine's Journey and we can maybe link that in this episode and also that podcast that you listen to maybe.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 2:It simplifies the Heroine's Journey but talks about it in the framework of like men and women can go on this journey. Like this is not like for females only. The book is geared more towards women who are healing, but it talks about how, once you go to the depths of the darkness like the dark feminine energy, the parts of you that have been ignored and abused and shamed and guilted and suppressed for so long once you touch it, it's like it didn't say this, but I felt like it. Like it's like release the Kraken. That's what it feels like, because once you touch it, it has to move through you. Yeah, you can't keep it, you can't go back, you can't contain it. Like. After that Like, so the only choice I have is to make friends with this person, this energy I have to. I can't make her go away. I have called on her a few times and I don't mean like Kelly, come to me.
Speaker 2:There have been a few situations that have come up in the past month where I'm feeling like I'm not being heard and I'm being misunderstood. I mean okay, I'll give an example. I used to hate our leasing manager at the store so much that I would purposely wait until the office closed so I could put my rent under the door. Cause I'm like I don't even wanna run into him Like he gives me, like these creepy vibes, like he like corners, women, like he's just I don't like the feeling he gives me, but there was some stuff that came up with our lease and I'm like I'm gonna go fucking talk to him. This is bullshit. And I did and I went in and I was like you're not gonna say these things, You're not gonna do these things. This is fucked up. I will call the person who is in charge of you, because I know that you don't even work here. Anyway, it's such a crazy story. It was like I was able to channel that rage and put it into the thing that it needed to be put into.
Speaker 1:Well, and it was in a healthy manner where you're advocating for yourself and advocating for your coworker and friend Right, and I was very proud of you.
Speaker 2:I was proud of myself.
Speaker 1:I know, you text me and you're like yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go in there.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna go do this.
Speaker 1:And I'm like you, go do it.
Speaker 2:And what's so fun. I could, like he I swear to God there's something about the energy behind that, because he knew immediately he couldn't say anything to me Like it was like an immediate like oh shit, Did your neck turn red? Oh, probably, I can't hide that part of it. So that's what I mean by like direct channeling it when I need to Like there are situations where I'm like afraid of running into somebody at you know this, like practices and stuff, and I'm like if I run into them, I'm in a channel, my Yep Callie, and it's not gonna be destructive and mean, but it's gonna do what it needs to do. It's protection, To protect the people that I love and yourself and myself. And if I have to get mean and nasty to do that, I will get mean and nasty to do that. Maybe not nasty, but if I have to be firm and You're gonna stand in your power.
Speaker 1:That's a good way to say it and own it.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna own it. I'm gonna own it.
Speaker 1:I think a lot of women especially like how you felt so much shame and guilt for having that rage. Yeah, I think so many women can relate to that because it doesn't feel Like I think there is a women feel like that's like not like womanly or how they should be acting.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Where I kind of disagree with that.
Speaker 2:Can I say what I was saying earlier when we were eating? Yeah, I think if I wasn't in this space and if I had gone somewhere and was like talking to my therapist about this stuff and was nowhere near where I am now on my healing journey, I think they would have easily have diagnosed me with bipolar disorder, borderline personality disorder, anything where there's like these intense mood swings, because that's what it looks like from the outside.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think a lot of people, a lot of women especially, I don't want to say that they're being misdiagnosed, because it is a real diagnosis. I think it's misunderstood. I think you are allowed to be angry. I think we have been wronged, I think we have been unheard. And so I'm saying that because it happened again, but not when it was in a controlled setting. It happened again when I was not wanting it to happen and in that my husband was like you know, you terrify me when you get there and I don't know if I can handle it Like you had. And you know, I was like well, what about all the times I was having like those mental breakdowns before you got sober? And he was like well, that was different. I was like, no, it wasn't, I was having panic attacks, I was having these giant, massive breakdowns.
Speaker 1:Well and you sent me a picture. You were getting rashes like what I had yeah.
Speaker 2:And I totally forgot about that. I was like getting rashes. I was going through like old photos. I was like holy shit, forgot about these. I was having these massive breakdowns because I was in a toxic environment. And he was like, well, that was different. And I was like it's not different, it's just a different energy. Those were like sad mental breakdowns. But I'm not going back to that. I'm not sad anymore. I'm demanding that you don't treat me this way. And I'm not saying he treated me poorly, like that's not what I'm saying, but I'm like it's almost like now that I understand why I'm feeling this way and it comes up when I'm not being heard. I'll be fucking damned if I'm going to allow myself to be in a situation with someone I'm choosing to be with where I'm not being fucking heard. It'll never happen again. I will never allow it. Like even outside of, like my marriage now, like that will never happen, because it's so triggering for me to feel like I'm not being heard.
Speaker 1:It is very triggering for you and it's always been a trigger. Well that's always when you get angry. Yeah, it's the only time you get angry.
Speaker 2:It's the only time it's not because I feel like I was wronged. It's not, you know. I feel like those things can like be repaired. You know, and that's exactly what I was saying. I was like you can't put me back in that cage and I refuse to let it happen. And if I have to rage myself out of that cage, I'll do it.
Speaker 1:I will do it.
Speaker 2:To protect myself. Yeah, to protect myself. So I see it very different now and I hate that I get that way. I still do and I still like this new little four-month-old baby, because this only happened four times in my entire life, but I'm still learning to be friends with her.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh that's going to take some time to learn.
Speaker 2:That too, yeah, and I don't want to scare the people that I love and that I care about, but sometimes it's necessary when it feels like I'm being put back into a box.
Speaker 1:So has he received that? Do you think? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:He understood it and it sucks because it's like I even feel it now like coming up and I'm like you and Tony were like sitting on the couch earlier and you were like yeah, and I texted her. I was like Leo, what are you doing? Ok, yeah, so, because I'm like it comes with warning now at least Right.
Speaker 1:And I think you know I'm your sounding board for a lot of things and you texted me and you were getting upset, yeah, and I was like, OK, let's think, Like do you need to go churnal? Like need some breath work. The workout Like what can we do? Meditate, and you didn't say anything. And then I said Leah, what are you doing? You don't respond. And then two or three hours later you respond and you go just raging, what you doing.
Speaker 2:Me.
Speaker 1:Not bad, wailp.
Speaker 2:But that's the thing too. It's like at least it comes with a warning. Now and I said that to him too I'm like before it was like it happened and it was out of nowhere, but now I can like feel it, and I think it's because I am like learning to be friends with her, and I can feel it when it happens.
Speaker 1:And you're having a need not being met Right.
Speaker 2:It's not like an immediate like oh my god, I don't know what's wrong with me. I know exactly what's wrong with me and I am telling you in this moment. I am not feeling like you're hearing what I'm saying. I feel like you're arguing with my feelings right now.
Speaker 1:And I guess that's where I was going. A lot of women maybe struggle to stick up for themselves or, you know, they think it's because they feel a lot of guilt or shame if they have anger or strong feelings. And there is somebody that I know that's is medicated on antidepressants and she, you know, will talk about her struggles and all of that and feel a lot of guilt and shame for having these feelings. And I think that it's really important to give yourself even more love, absolutely, when you're having those feelings and big emotions and more grace and they're there for a reason Always. So like, instead of like shaming yourself for having this symptom, maybe get curious about why it's there in the first place, right, and then what you can do Do you need to change your environment? Do you need to like I?
Speaker 2:don't know. No, you're exactly right, because that is one of the things that I said. I said I know that, like you know, my husband and I like we've got a very, very toxic history. You guys do, yeah, and sometimes I see where we are now and it feels like the impossible. It really does Like there's a lot of damage that was done, a lot of a lot of shit happened, and it would be so much easier to just pick up and start over with someone else. Like I realized that, and what we're doing is incredibly hard, like harder than starting over. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Like because our resentments are with each other, Our anger is with each other. Like if I was like to leave him and get in another relationship and I felt triggered it wouldn't be because of them.
Speaker 1:It'd be because of Jason.
Speaker 2:Right, it would be because of a past, past you know situation. So it's it's easy to say like remove yourself from the environment. But I've said that before because I'm like I don't want to continue to feel like I'm not being heard and I understand there's like a lot of damage here but like you've got to work with me too, Absolutely, Because I'm not going to allow myself to be in any type of relationship that reminds me of where we were, even when it's us. Yeah Well, it's good. So you're like good for you. So this is, you know, and he hears that, Does he Good? Okay, he says he hears it.
Speaker 1:I think he hears it, he hears it because he's like I don't want Kelly to come out.
Speaker 2:Cause I can't ever. He's terrified of Kelly, and that's another thing too. Like it's like there's a lot of guilt and shame, because I know that that's also touching on his trauma and the way that he grew up. There's a lot of guilt and shame that comes with that too. But again it's like what you were saying like I am learning to be unapologetic about it Like, do I want to hurt the people that I love? No, I don't, but do I love myself more? Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, I do.
Speaker 1:Well, in this new chapter, I'm excited to see more darkness.
Speaker 2:Damn.
Speaker 1:Out of you.
Speaker 2:Y'all are about to see a lot of darkness, though, cause that was, like, probably the most fun photo shoot I've ever done in my entire life. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:On Monday.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was cool. You like embodying, your like inner softness and me like doing like dark shit.
Speaker 1:I know, I know it's fucking awesome.
Speaker 2:So back to Cabo. I did want to say this because I thought it was an interesting thing and maybe I did tell you I don't know if I was trying to keep it from you. Couple of things, we did an MDMA again and that's like one of our favorites, like you know. I don't want to say we do it a lot, but it's like probably like at least now it's like five times a year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for five times a year. We're every three months and it's hands down our favorite too. Yeah, and I think every couple should do it with intention 100%.
Speaker 2:You know what I think it would help with Even couples on the rocks. Well, yeah, because I think, even if you are not trying to mend the relationship, I think that when you do something like that together intentionally, you can walk away feeling heard and seen and understood and there's still like love there, instead of like leaving and parting ways Like so angrily. That's, you know, that's how we did it, that's why we did it. The first time it was like a very last resort, like if this doesn't help, like at least we'll know we tried everything.
Speaker 1:Tony and I have done it. One time we did it and we were arguing about something and we just could not come to an agreement and my ego got in the way and I'm sure his did too when we took the medicine and I was like, even though I take it, I'm still gonna be mad at him, I'm not giving in. And then it was like 45 minutes later I love you so much, I wanna listen to you, let's talk. I was wrong and he's like I was wrong too. I should listen to you better as well. And it's so funny because both of us we took it and we're like on opposite ends.
Speaker 1:Shut up and I'm like I am not backing down.
Speaker 2:That's. I feel like there was a time, like there was one time we did it and I was in a pissy mood and I was like I'm not doing that with you tonight anymore, and he was like come on, Like we've got to sit here, this never happens. Like let's just, let's do it, and I don't wanna waste our night together. I was like fine, that was like a while ago, but yeah, it really. It's just like it's this immediate, like you can let your guard down and both people, both people. But that's kind of what I was about to say, because we did this and we were having this conversation about compliments.
Speaker 1:Ooh Okay, I wanna hear this, you do.
Speaker 2:Heck, yeah, I do. Okay, it was just. We had talked earlier about compliments and he has a hard time complimenting people. It's like and I don't wanna say it's an autistic thing, but like it's-.
Speaker 1:For him.
Speaker 2:For him to be verbally expressive is very, very, very difficult. So he was like I complimented you the other it's hard for me to compliment you because I complimented you the other day or a few weeks ago and you just like kind of rolled your eyes at me A few weeks ago, but I didn't remember this. I was like what did you say? And he was like I said you looked like you'd been losing weight. And I like he said I like looked back at him and rolled my eyes and then turned around and he was like you don't hear the compliments.
Speaker 2:And I was like, okay, well, first of all, like I was probably pissed off because I've been trying to lose weight and haven't been, and hearing that was just like kind of like annoying. But also, don't ever compliment me on my weight. Don't compliment women on their weight. Like it's not a compliment. Like if I had been actually losing weight, I probably would have received that a little bit better. You know what I mean. But like that's a very sore subject for me, like so this goes out to anybody Do not, under any circumstances, say something about a woman's weight. God.
Speaker 1:Period. What a fucking rookie Jesus.
Speaker 2:And so I'm like Googling it, because even when I Googled it.
Speaker 1:I wanna morph it to his body too.
Speaker 2:Can you just like come in? Oh God, jesus Christ, I'm sorry it's hard not to say that I'll come in you anytime, but I'm like. He's just like. But I don't understand. Like I would love if I'm trying to lose weight and someone said that to me and I'm like but you're a dude first off and you're not me. I'm telling you I don't like it. Like say I'm pretty or say an outfit looks good on me, or something. Anyway, it turned into this whole thing because I'm like, googling it and everything pulling up is saying like never do it.
Speaker 2:Don't do it, Don't do it, Don't do it, Don't do it. Be smarter, bro. Yeah, and he's just like why? I just don't understand. So it just continues. He's stay stuck on it. He's stay stuck on it. He's just like why don't I? And I'm like you're you'll never understand because it doesn't bother you. You're never going to understand it the way I'm trying to explain this to you. But get like a hundred women in a room and ask them the same thing and they're going to tell you pretty much what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that night we do MDMA and the conversation comes up again and we're talking about it in a very different way, very different way. He's understanding it more. He's hearing it. I'm able to articulate it without being like angry and like annoyed. So we have this conversation again and it went really well.
Speaker 2:And then the next morning at breakfast I was like you know, what's really weird is that conversation we were having last night. I feel like normally I would want to be on MDMA to have that conversation, but it didn't feel hard to have it and I feel like you and I are getting to a place where we can have those conversations without the drugs. That sounds bad, Without the MDMA so it create a safe place. And he was like I feel like your eye was going to say the same thing, Like I felt like I wouldn't have been scared to have that conversation outside of MDMA the same way I used to. That's good. But I was like it's almost like we're flexing this muscle that we've never worked on before. You know, we're working this muscle out. It's getting easier and easier. It's still taking time, but, like every time we do something like that and we talk about these things, the difficult part of it like gets easier. Yeah, Does that make sense? Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Do you feel like that too? You need to stop saying does that make sense?
Speaker 2:I do Because it makes sense To you. Yes, I'll stop saying it, hahaha. Anyway, that was like one of my takeaways from it.
Speaker 1:So how is he going to show up differently in that way that you need?
Speaker 2:You mean the compliments? Yeah, we're still figuring that out.
Speaker 1:Okay, he has a really hard time with it, I do. He really does. He puts notes in his phone.
Speaker 2:He does it for a lot of things. Like he has like a birthday notes, a notes for my birthday. Like make sure you get her a cake, get her a card, go to her gift list for a gift, make sure it's the right gift list. Like he has like steps, wow. But here's another thing, and I'm going to lead into this, because have you ever heard of the 36 Questions game? Yeah, you sent it to me but I haven't done it. Okay, there is this, like it was years ago 36 questions to ask someone to fall in love. Like when you sit with someone and ask these 36 questions and you're both taking the time to answer them and talk with each other face to face, like it's hard not to fall in love with someone. It kind of reminds me of like love is blind experiment, where you're like getting to know them on a deeper level.
Speaker 1:And they're probably sharing not just your pretty yeah, it's probably a really. It's a much deeper explanation of why they fell in love with you, or the traits that they love about you.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's not that, it's not questions about relationships. It's like what is your happiest memory, what is your worst memory? Like things like that, like where you're getting to know the other person.
Speaker 1:Got it Okay, I thought it was about each other.
Speaker 2:No, so you could do this with strangers and still like feel connected to them afterwards.
Speaker 1:So they're going to fall in love with me if I do it, maybe.
Speaker 2:Okay cool, it's hard not to True. So one of the questions was describe your perfect day. And I had just had my perfect day, Like I was in Cabo, sitting in a pool reading a book, doing literally nothing.
Speaker 1:Best.
Speaker 2:Eight when I wanted to. You want to go to dinner? Sure, why not, like whenever you know, like such a chill day, so fucking good. My favorite kind of day no plans, nowhere to be. Island life is the best. Life In the water, like in the sun, island life is really good.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:No, it's a real thing. And then I'm like well, describe your perfect day.
Speaker 1:Oh God, it's probably so different.
Speaker 2:It was well, you know, I'd wake up and go to the gym, and then I'd come home and I'd make my spinach smoothie, and then I'd get some studying done. Or I do do a meditation, and then I'd get some studying done and then I'd log on for work and then who wants to work on their perfect day.
Speaker 2:Someone who needs that structure and those check boxes, oh my. So I'm relating this back because, like for me, like he has to have like these check boxes, like okay for date night, like he has like a notes app for like date ideas, because he needs to see things in order for them. Yeah, so it's just wild Cause I'm like looking at him as he's saying this, I'm like no, no, no, no, not like you're like every day like your perfect day, and he was like I feel out of place not having things done in order.
Speaker 1:So if you guys go on a vacation, is it, is he?
Speaker 2:can he chill? He has a hard time relaxing. He doesn't know how to turn off. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So if you're sitting by the pool, what's he doing?
Speaker 2:I mean he'll sit there with me, but he'll be like. He'll be like I might go upstairs a little bit and study, is that okay? And I'm like yeah, I'm fine.
Speaker 1:If you were in the pool or on the beach, I'd be like hey, look at me, die for stealth. No, there's like.
Speaker 2:No, there's not a lot of like I'm just there and I could stay out there all fucking day, all day. I could too. Laying, chilling, reading a book, doing absolutely nothing. You do play a lot. You play a lot in the water.
Speaker 1:I don't play, I'm just like I'm going to make you play.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'm going to teach you how to swim the whole first, but it's just wild to me that that's how different we are Like his perfect day is filled with structure and checkbox.
Speaker 1:He's wired so differently.
Speaker 2:Checkbox things, yeah, like he has to be doing in order to feel like he's good enough, so okay.
Speaker 1:This may be a dumb question.
Speaker 2:But we said this I'm like I am learning how to be and I love not doing. He has a hard time just being.
Speaker 1:So that's what I was going to ask Is there a way, with him and his autism, to be able to learn how to just be? I don't know. Are there like, or is that just? I'm genuinely?
Speaker 2:curious. I know I genuinely I do not know. I feel like that's going to be something that he's going to want to have to work on, because it was something I had to work on, like learning how to. Just I do not feel an ounce of guilt on the days I don't do anything. I really don't. I shut off a lot for my mental health and I don't care that not everybody understands that I feel like you do that a little bit. I mean not like in a bad way, but like I feel like you shut off and you're like no, I have to.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, and I don't think that we talked about this the other day. I think that's a societal thing too, but we also talked about how manifesters and projectors yeah, they have to have that.
Speaker 2:In order to function properly. In order to function properly, you're exactly right.
Speaker 1:And generators and manifesting generators yeah, Do, do, do they're the doers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so maybe that's not we're the beers, we're the beers.
Speaker 1:So we need we've talked about this a lot Just throwing this out there, just throwing this out there, just throwing it out there, guys, but we need a manifesting generator or A generator. A generator I'm talking like that kid who's at the park hey guys, apparently, apparently, yeah.
Speaker 2:I've never been on a roller coaster before.
Speaker 1:But yeah, we need a manifesting generator or a generator to help keep us in line and on task and motivated. Because we need a doer, yeah, we need a doer.
Speaker 2:So just throwing that out there Anybody who's looking for an internship, unpaid, hala, really fun, we're super fun. Yeah, we are looking for somebody who can do.
Speaker 1:I don't see the unpaid thing being forever. Oh god by the trajectory of how we've been doing things.
Speaker 2:If we had a doer, we would get paid faster, true? So if we could have make that be your motivation, make that be your checkbox, like get them paid so we can.
Speaker 1:Someone in this space would be wonderful.
Speaker 2:So I don't want to give too much away. But the book that I read the Heroine's Journey and we've touched on the Hero's Journey a little bit and we've touched on the Heroine's Journey a tiny bit. It's such a big thing and we have an episode coming up where I think we're going to touch on that a little bit more and the Cali energy a little bit more. So I don't want to give too much away. But I will say that this book, reading it, I don't want to say reconnected with my mom, because there's still a disconnect. But I have allowed my mom back in my life and there are some strong boundaries there and there is a disconnect as in I am not so angry with her and I don't have a relationship with her as like a mother-daughter normally would.
Speaker 2:She is my children's grandmother, she helps us out, she is very helpful and there's just a disconnect and it needs to be there because I think before I was so angry and hurt that she wasn't the mother I needed and I see her now as someone that my kids love. But I don't need her anymore. I don't need that nurturing, mothering thing that I needed before, because I'm able to do that for myself and that's why I'm able to have her in my life. There is no animosity, there is no anger towards her, and that's been since last year. But reading this book in Cabo, there's sections in it about different female archetypes and how there's. In every heroine's journey there's a separation from the feminine and then the connection to the masculine, and then the true healing comes when you reconnect with the feminine. And in this book it talks about how that happens with our moms. We separate ourselves from our mothers because we don't want to be that. We see our fathers and we're like I want to be that.
Speaker 1:It's like a societal thing.
Speaker 2:It's a natural thing, interesting and I'm not saying this is true for everybody, but we see our mothers as weak. Sometimes they were angry and we didn't know why. We don't want to be that. We try our best to not be the things that we saw on our mother, that we don't like, not realizing that they were there, probably for a reason. So I'm reading and I'm like sobbing in the freaking pool because I'm like, oh my god, the way my mother grew up. It was a very controlling Pentecostal religious way of life. Her father was like a pastor and there were a lot of rules and he was very strict. And then meet someone before my dad who was of a different ethnicity and very controlling and very of the mindset that women have no power, no voice, no say, and then meets my dad, who had a lot of his own demons, and I started to see my mother even more so as, oh my god, no wonder she had angry outbursts when I was a kid. She wasn't heard, she's never been validated, she has never known peace.
Speaker 1:And when you were younger, oftentimes you sided with your dad.
Speaker 2:I always sided with my dad and that's manipulative as fuck because he knew I would. He knew I would.
Speaker 1:OK, I was going to say there were times he told me things. He told me things. No, it wasn't manipulative, for me.
Speaker 2:There were times he would tell me secrets and hold them over me. Ok, example one time in high school I got drunk and he always told me because his dad was killed by a drunk driver, if you ever get drunk, I'll never be mad at you. I'll come pick you up. I'll never be mad at you, I just don't want you to get behind the wheel. So I called him one time and I was drunk and he picked me up and he never told my mom. He was like I won't tell your mom. Several years later he brings that up. He's like do you remember the time I didn't tell your mom you got drunk at that party? And I was like, yeah. And he was like if she asks tonight, I need you to tell her that I was staying with you. Where was he at, I don't know, not with me, but things like that. You know what I mean. Like he used those things against me. He sided with me, but he also also made sure that I always sided with him.
Speaker 2:Well it was transactional, it was very transactional, and it's just reading this book. It talks about how so many females would see their dad leaving for work for the day and then their mom's stuck at home. Not stuck at home, this isn't a generalized statement, but their mothers were angry and rigid and not happy and depressed. And they see their dads going out into the world and doing all these great things and then we become the waiters. We wait for our dads to come home, we wait for the masculine attention, we wait for validation. We become waiters to the masculine.
Speaker 1:And here's another thing to think about. When you were growing up, did you ever see like a truly relaxed woman? No, me either.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:Never, and not one, not a one.
Speaker 2:This is a very. The generation we're in right now is very different. Like you know, there is the generation before my mothers who grew up in war and poverty and you know the Great Recession and I know we're going through one now but they were like you've got to toughen up or you don't survive. We don't talk about feelings. We don't talk about what we went through. And then they raised our mothers, and our mothers gave up a lot for our fathers.
Speaker 1:And also our mothers were once little girls, teenagers, young women who had a lot of needs not be met and they didn't have the resources like what we have now and the tools like what we have now.
Speaker 2:I have. Honestly, since I've been home, I have thought several times about I was hard to say I'm doing this following thing.
Speaker 1:Don't think too much about it, even though I make fun of you for it and I impersonate it.
Speaker 2:You're really good at it.
Speaker 1:I am so good at it, you're so good at impersonating it.
Speaker 2:I have thought several times about reaching out to my mom and I don't know that she would even understand it or have the capacity to have a conversation around it. But I've thought about saying I'm so sorry that you had to deal with what you dealt with in your marriage, in my childhood, in your childhood. I'm so sorry that you never felt like you were heard.
Speaker 1:I think you should, and even if it's a letter or a nice text.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I knew that that conversation would be it'd be very validating for her.
Speaker 2:It would. And even my husband is like I don't understand how you like reconnected with her, but you've never had a conversation. I'm like I don't know there's a time and a place for it and right now, like there's still like that newness in our relationship and I wanna make sure that she's able to receive what I am saying, and I also think that in the past year there's been a lot more empathy and growth with that relationship. So, yeah, just realizing that like we butt heads a lot, and I'm sure that that like masculine energy, I think about it. I'm like my dad validated my feelings over hers always, but it was transactional because he knew that he he needed someone to defend him and so he would come to my defense all the time and I'm sure that fucking destroyed my mom.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think about it all the time now. Well, haven't there been times with you and Jason, especially when he was deep in his addiction, where he would advocate for L but then not advocate for you, and it would make you feel a certain way because it's like, yeah, I know, this is our daughter and like she should have that, but why?
Speaker 2:could you do that for me too. I deserve it too, right, right yeah, there's a lot of layers to this stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So, no, that's very profound. That's good and I'm proud of you for that. That's a full circle moment and I didn't have the. I did have a disconnect with my mother, but not at the extent or the longevity because I always felt guilty, because my mother was a single mother and my mother struggled and my mother raised children who weren't biologically hers and. But there has been. It's almost like I had to go through these stages where I didn't say anything, I didn't say anything, I didn't say anything. And then when I started my healing journey, I started to get really angry at her, like really pissed, and I would actually start to call her out and say things. But now it's gone back to kind of that compassion and love, like. It's like I had to go through like the steps.
Speaker 2:There's, there's steps to this journey. That's exactly what it is. There's like disconnect from the feminine and then, like, the very last step of the heroine's journey is to reconnect with the feminine. And it doesn't mean with your mom, like it also means with yourself. Once you are able to fully connect with the feminine in yourself, you can see the feminine in your mother. Yeah, it's, I feel like that's how it happened.
Speaker 1:And I think I needed to stick up for myself, advocate for myself again. Like I said, I used to never, because I always felt so guilty, because it was always like, okay, you feel this way, but she's been through this, this and this. Yeah, where now I'm glad like I kind of let that out and we've worked through it, because now she shows up for me in a little bit of a different way. Yeah, she shows up in a better way, because I said that was what I needed from her. Wow, and so it's really helped our relationship and we've been talking and FaceTiming and I think I said on one episode, like you know, recently we like FaceTime for two hours and that's something we've never done.
Speaker 2:Wow and.
Speaker 1:I never used to. I used to be very guard up, walls up, would share very surface level things about my life. For now I have shared with her things I'm struggling with, things that you know day to day, things that I used to not tell her before, Deeper things about me and how I feel, about things I shared with her. Going to Jenny Shanks, the medium I've shared with her about my psychedelic journeys, Like I've shared with her so many things that before I was just angry and I didn't want her to know anything that I was doing. That's.
Speaker 2:I'm having this like realization now that like in order to understand why my mom was always so angry, when I was a kid I had to go through it myself. I had to sit with my own anger and realize where it was coming from. That was wild for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but we're meant to feel anger.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so stop suppressing that shit. Yeah, I think about it all the time because, like a lot of times, I think that men their go to is anger and it's accepted.
Speaker 1:Oftentimes it's the only emotion that they show. I was literally just about to say sometimes it's the only one they know how to show.
Speaker 2:So it's like no matter what they're feeling, it shows up as anger.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So it's just, it's very unfamiliar, but what you told me earlier about single moms, share that.
Speaker 1:I saw this post and it said that single mothers it's truly single mothers. Okay, when I say single mothers, I'm talking about people like my mother, who did not have an ex husband to even financially support, like my dad was not in my life, like I didn't go over to his house on the weekends or anything like that. He didn't pay child support, nothing. So truly a single mother with no help. It's impossible for them to truly be in their feminine.
Speaker 2:But it makes a lot of sense because they have to be like the providers and the protectors, and everything all at once.
Speaker 1:And that makes me really, really sad, because that is not fair.
Speaker 2:It's not fair. So, yeah, I think this lesson for the both of us and again I'm going to go back to it has been like the opposite, but it's also been like learning to embrace the duality of both the masculine and the feminine and understanding that they both have parts to play and they're both extremely important and females.
Speaker 1:And males. Yeah, when we say and I think we've said this but when we say masculine and feminine, it is not a woman is only feminine and a man is only masculine, right, so women should have masculine and feminine. Same thing with men. Yeah, you know, men should work on being more nurturing and caring and supportive, and it's like Callie can we all have Callie energy, like all of us.
Speaker 2:Girl, I've got it, you do have it, but she's also soft and very like, so, like, there's like that duality there that's like necessary for like full balance, like, but it should be in men too, like you don't have to always be the protector and the provider. You also should be soft and vulnerable, but again, not all the time Right, but there has to be like balance, balance.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's, I think, what is really great for this friendship you know, kind of going back to having you know friends who you are healing and involving with is that I think I bring out this strength in you and I think you bring this, bring out this softness in me.
Speaker 2:But it's also really cool because sometimes when we're talking to each other, like, and I'll tell you something, you give me like the different perspective from your lens and I can give you a different perspective from my lens.
Speaker 1:Yeah, very true.
Speaker 2:Like men's, the softer pink. Soft pink lens. I see the world with rose colored glasses. No, not really. I tell you what I mean Like and you're like, or you can be a badass and I'm like. Oh I can. I never thought about that.
Speaker 1:And I'm like, yeah, no, and that was the first thing I thought of. Yeah, so where you will bring, say, something like well, you don't have to respond, or they're not necessarily worth your energy, or whatever it is that may be a softer approach.
Speaker 2:And I'm like, oh, okay, I didn't think about that, like we have to give each other permission One of these days. We're not going to need it. Yes, and it's going to be awesome. It's going to be awesome. It's going to be great. It's going to be so good.
Speaker 1:All right, we got to wrap it up. I got to pick up my kiddo.
Speaker 2:Yeah, back to real life. So, yeah, I guess we'll put the link to the book in the bio, because I have like recommended it to like almost everyone To me that's like the four agreements and the alchemist and the heroine's journey are now like my top three must reads.
Speaker 1:Okay For anyone and everyone. I need to read it next.
Speaker 2:I'm so sorry. Then I'm forcing you to read another book.
Speaker 1:No, I love it.
Speaker 2:It was just. It's so good. And to all of our listeners, thanks for listening to us today and stay curious. Be open. We'll see you on the other side. Bye.