See You On The Other Side

63 | Conscious Masculinity and Psychedelics with Sam Morris

September 11, 2023 Leah & Christine Season 2 Episode 63
See You On The Other Side
63 | Conscious Masculinity and Psychedelics with Sam Morris
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Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Sam Morris, the full fuck yes frequency! A hippie cowboy, inspirational speaker, psychedelic guide and breath work facilitator. Join us as we navigate Sam's journey of addiction recovery and his profound exploration of spirituality, a journey that has seen him embrace plant medicine and the powerful psychedelic, Bufo (5-MeO-DMT).

We delve into the world of men's conscious awareness, exploring Sam's perspective on conscious masculinity and its capacity to cultivate safety and connection. We also discuss the implications of unhealed and unintegrated masculine energy, and how this can trigger reactionary behaviors.

In the final part of our chat, we delve deeper into the dance of masculine and feminine energies in relationships and the importance of striking a balance. Sam shares his insights on how men are often conditioned to express themselves in ways that can impact their dating and relationships. The discussion progresses to the creation of safe spaces for men to connect and the online resources available to facilitate this. As we reflect on our conversation, we are filled with gratitude for Sam's wisdom and the chance to share his enlightening journey with you.

Connect with Sam here: instagram.com/samgibbsmorris

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Speaker 1:

Hello, hello everybody. Leah and I are kind of like in a state of bliss right now because we just got done with a really awesome interview.

Speaker 2:

Would you say the same, absolutely Like. I'm like smiling and I feel like I'm like this dopey little, like I'm on cloud nine.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, we interviewed Sam Morris and it was just incredibly nice to talk to a man that was very safe and that's the best way that I could describe it Safe conversation. His energy felt safe and inviting. That was I know I say this all the time, but that was like. I really enjoyed him. It was a lot.

Speaker 2:

It was very, very refreshing, like a very positive, uplifting conversation, and you could just tell he has this kind soul.

Speaker 1:

Yes, gentle kind. Yes.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

So so Sam Morris. He is a thought leader, a speaker and author, and he is a men's retreat facilitator and a spiritual teacher.

Speaker 2:

And what did you say?

Speaker 1:

his bio said earlier so Sam Gibbs Morris, it says the full fuck, yes, frequency, which I love, and he describes himself as a huge sports fan and a dad joke promoter. I fucking love it.

Speaker 2:

I fucking love it. We had, we. I do want to warn you guys, we had a few little hiccups in the audio and I'm not even going to worry about editing them out because they only lasted for like maybe a few seconds. So I'm not going to edit any of them out. So if you guys hear like a pause or something like just be patient, it'll come back on, and that's kind of the thing that happens when you are doing podcasts, remote like this, it is what it is and I don't think they realized. But like you've been out of town for almost two weeks, so yeah, I think because the last episode we dropped we were in person but we weren't Together when it dropped, yeah, and then the last episode we recorded was a very negative experience we had last week and you were still out of town. So it's a completely different setup, a completely different environment for us. But we'll touch on that later.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, we need to do a whole episode on that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, worst, worst uh interviewed to date for sure, yeah, but probably not going to air that one.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, I don't think we should.

Speaker 3:

I don't think we should but there was a lesson in there, Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

And I think it was divine timing that today we had the conversation that we did with another male who was very much the opposite of what we ran into last week A very safe masculine energy, very warm and inviting and loving and caring, and I hope you guys hear that in today's episode just how kind of a soul this Sam, this Sam, this Sam person is. We love Sam. We can't wait for you guys to connect with him as well. And here he is.

Speaker 1:

All right, sam, welcome. We are so excited to have you here. But first, you just got back from Burning man and all of the stuff happening around Burning man. I'm very excited to have you on here, somebody who actually lived it. How was that experience for you?

Speaker 3:

The Burning.

Speaker 1:

Man experience.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so I've been. I actually left before the chaos started on Friday. I took off like early Friday afternoon. That was my plan all along, and so just because. Yeah, just because, Well, I got there for on Thursday to help build the camp and so I'd already been there for eight days and I knew that last year when I went, I was there from Monday to Friday and I was already by Friday. I was like I'm ready to go. And so I knew that, you know, adding an extra four days on the on the front end of that was going to be a long time to be on the play. I mean, it's it's not hospitable by any stretch. You know it's very fun and there's a lot to do, but it is some really intense conditions. And so I knew I just knew, going in that like by Friday I was going to be ready to jet. So I got an Airbnb in Tahoe and spent four days there. So I got out. As I was leaving, actually, I could see the rain drop, just starting to hit my windshield on the drive out of the desert, and so I was. You know, I thought like it happened a few times during the week where it was like a few sprinkles here and there and everything like yeah, whatever. But then I guess the torrential rain just came in and the desert got more rain than it's gotten in, I don't know. 25 years or something. Jesus Christ, wow. And so you know, like most of my not, yeah, most of my camp, like a lot of people left Friday, but most of the camp was still there on Saturday and they were able to get Starlink. So I was communicating with a couple of them and they were just like please let us know anything that you hear from the outside about weather or about anything else. And I'm like, honestly, I'm hearing there's Ebola on the play and that's what Twitter was saying.

Speaker 1:

I did read that.

Speaker 3:

And like, oh, cdc has been like taking off some quarantine here and bringing over to the play and like it's all false information. And so everyone on the play was like, listen, we're good. Like we got food, we got water, we got our community. Like people are helping each other out, like, and that's, that's what Prima man is, the communal effort is, you know, one of the 10 principles, and radical self reliance and communal effort. And so when something like that goes down, really the whole community that everybody I've talked to that was there, was just been like, yeah, like it was, it was fine, it was uncomfortable and miserable and muddy, but we were safe and happy and good.

Speaker 1:

Very hyped up then. Yeah, such as life.

Speaker 2:

I mean, speaking of community, I had a big question for you because we have a mutual friend. So random that like never happens here in Louisville. Kentucky and connecting with people outside of Louisville, but you know this person through a community fit for service. Yeah, and I want to. I'm very curious about this because I looked into this back in 2020 and it was just out of my like scope of capabilities, with like three kids and a business, and I couldn't pull it off. But I've been interested in it ever since and, from what I understand, it kind of is this like community based living, not living. It's not exactly like you're living off grid, but what exactly is that and how did you get into that in the first place?

Speaker 3:

2020 was actually when I first stepped into it. Oh yeah, it was. It's evolved a lot from what I've seen. You know, there's there's like kind of like the active members of the community and then the alumni from the original. The two original years were 2019 and 2020. And so there's kind of a group that connects and stays connected there and I've got a lot of friends from 2019 and 2020 when I was in the actual mastermind and it was, it was a, it was the timing was just impeccable because I had just moved to Austin and, of course, I knew about Aubrey Marcus and I knew about Fit for Service and and, like you, I looked into it before and it was never like it was just not a possibility for me. And then I got to Austin and I was here and like things were lining up like financially and space, space wise, and like the opportunity was there and I applied and got in kind of last minute and it was. I mean, they do such a good job of you know there's like it's 150. At the time, it was 150 people and that was the cap they were, they were putting the cap on it there and it was during during quarantine, so like there wasn't a lot of you know community and so it was great to be able to drop in with like, with other men, with other women. And then the event, the summit. They do three summits a year and the summit is where basically everybody that's in it they can goes to either Costa Rica or I think they did Tahoe, I think they and then this one was in Sedona. It was the fall of 2020. And that's where I met Sally and a bunch of other people and it was one of the most life changing experiences in my life, just the timing of it all and being that I was. You know, it's about vibration, right, and so I was in this vibration where I was like I had I had just gotten kind of back onto the path after, you know, the addiction recovery and gotten back on the path of the plant medicine and started microdosing mushrooms, and it led me to so much other things. It was a massive catalyst in my life for pretty much. You know, I don't think I'd be, I definitely know I wouldn't be sitting here right now for that community.

Speaker 2:

Wow, you just said something and I don't think I knew this before we had you on, but you just said the addiction recovery. So are you in recovery right now?

Speaker 3:

That's a. That's, that's a. It's a, not a question I wrestle with. I don't. I don't have that conversation anymore. I feel that, um, you know, that's a, an AA based conversation, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Are you?

Speaker 3:

recovering. Are you recovered? Um, you know, it's a bonus contention in that program and I did AA for six years and it was everything I needed. Um, and I spent 18 years in the, the throes of it all addiction, alcohol, cocaine. I was in a jail 20, 25 times rehab, six times hospital stays, um, a suicide attempt, like. I went all the places and um, for six years and starting in uh, 2012 for I went to rehab in six years, totally bought into AA and it was everything I needed and I, that was another community that I still have a lot of really close friends from and then, after about six years, I stopped resonating with the message. Um, I, you know, I felt like I felt like that identifying as an alcoholic every day was almost keeping me not stuck, but almost going backwards and I cause, I'm big on identity, how to identify myself, how to smoke it. I'm a smoker, you're going to stay being a smoker If you, if you're trying to quit smoking, you say I'm not a smoker, you're programming yourself, and so, um, just a lot of the things about AA was just. It just stopped vibrating and stopped resonating with me, and so when I moved to Austin in 2019, um, and I could make up that. I didn't find any meetings I liked, but again it was like I wasn't. I just wasn't, I wasn't in the place to receive that and I knew that there was something else, some sort of other expansion available for me, and it ended up being deep, deep spirituality, deep, deep spiritual connection and the plan.

Speaker 2:

I fully like agree with everything that you're saying, cause I'm my husband is Dylan the program, but he's newly sober, yeah, um yeah. But he's also kind of more um down the spiritual, untradition, non-traditional AA path than most of his peers and his group and he has a hard time relating.

Speaker 3:

Um, yeah, I find that a lot. Actually, a lot of the guys I talked to that are in that position are, like you know, like it's been, it's proven since 1935 that and I have friends that are 20 years in and they go to meetings every day and you know, it works for the people that it works for, and it worked for me for six years. It's working for your husband, and that's one of the things is like I think one of the disconnects in the program is that there's like that I go to meeting every day and it has to be this way and the big book's way. And then there's this new breed, kind of like you know what there's also in the program. One of the major things they say is take what you need to leave the rest and that. Then then you start doing that and people are like wait, you're not taking that, you're leaving that, and it's like, yeah, like that's that's what you told me in the beginning, and so, um, it really is. It's a little bit uh, strict in that sense and like there is some kind of energy in it of if you're not doing it my way, you're not doing it the right way, and I really believe that you know, there, there, there gets to be freedom in the recovery process and the in the getting sober process, cause it really isn't, you know, and this is saying with code Hang on.

Speaker 2:

He cut out for a second.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I can't hear him either. Oh, now I can hear you. Yeah, you just cut out for like two five seconds there. Okay, maybe five.

Speaker 3:

Um, I was saying that, you know, not everything works for everybody, and it's true in coaching, and it's true in in spirituality and it's true in uh Burning man. It's you know. Find the path that works for you and find the things that are resonating with you and and do more of that. That's you know. It's it's psychedelic integrations. The same way, everyone wants to think they have to do it this way. It's really like what is what, what resonates and works best with you? That's going to sustainability and consistency. How can I keep this going? Cause if it's something you're doing just to get to a 30 day mark or a 60 day mark, if I'm 60 day mark, you're going to be like ah, it didn't work for me, whatever it is. But if we find things that are actual lifestyles or that support you as a person being better, that's the sustainability of it.

Speaker 1:

I'm really glad that we're having you on right now. Yeah, um, especially the male energy that you're bringing, because last week, um Leah and I had a guest who was a male and he owns a rehab facility in San Diego and they actually reached out to us because they wanted to be on our podcast and I don't know if they didn't do any research of about what we talk about, Um, but he came on and he was very aggressive about his stance, about how um AA should be and how sobriety should be, and had very strong opinions about psychedelics and we. It wasn't a conversation, it was almost like this person was talking at us and we weren't really prepared for it. So it's it's really nice talking to you and being able to have a conversation about this topic and it be like a safe conversation. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, there was a lot of judgment and yes a lot of judgment about my husband doing psychedelics and not really doing the work because he's still not sober and yeah.

Speaker 2:

so it's refreshing like talking to someone who has been in both sides of it, because we did want to kind of ask you about how you, um, how you got into psychedelics and and what they've done for you and, yeah, what it was like before and what it's like now, yeah, Awesome, thank you, and, um, I mean I feel for you on having that, that interaction before.

Speaker 3:

I mean that's exactly the kind of the problem that we're talking about. It's like that exists, yeah, and so it doesn't give a lot of people. It's not a very welcoming energy.

Speaker 1:

Like hey, do it my way Right?

Speaker 3:

Um, the way that I look at it is this like I don't I don't necessarily say I'm in recovery or I'm sober I know that 11 years ago I decided to make a decision. I made a decision for the better, and I'm 11 years clear of being in jail, hospitals, rehabs and making terrible decisions about my life, and that's that's kind of where, where I leave it. So, um, how did I get into psychedelics? Um, young, I mean 18, 19, when I was in high school and college. A lot of mushrooms, lsd, um, later on there was the well, it was ecstasy at the time, which is now the MDMA. Um, and it was all recreational concerts, festivals, like whatever it was. You know, let's get weird. And uh, then that they, they kind of fell away. And then I spent the probably from 20, it was it was 18 years, 20 to 38 of pretty much just hard alcohol and a lot of partying. And then, um 38 years old, put down the drugs and alcohol and took a break from all of it. And then I always had in the back of my head this thing that it was like, you know, there's one of the medicines or one medicine not drugs at the time, but medicines now that I would ever miss I think it would be mushrooms. I was kind of held back like thought in my head of, like you know, maybe one day there'll be some sort of opportunity there. And then, towards the end of my stint in AA, I started to, like you know, I walked the camera radar and mushrooms came on my radar and this, you know, kind of the healing, like the healing properties of these medicines around addiction and I'm like, wow, that's interesting. But I was still I still kind of like had the AA programming. I was indoctrinated and like, oh, that means I have to change my sobriety date and had all these like internal conversations going on and I had a lot of conversations with therapists and people that were open to it and, you know, finally got to the point where, when I left AA, I said if I'm leaving this behind, I have to, I have to open myself up to I can't just leave all AA sized hole in my life. I can't just like stop doing things that are working me to be a better person. And so I knew the spirituality, meditation and all that stuff was going to be a bigger, a bigger part of my life and I was really excited about that. So a lot of like looking into the postura and looking into these men's retreats like sacred sons and all this stuff, and then getting to Austin. The psychedelic conversation in Austin is loud. And so yeah, I had a lot of. I had some friends that weren't necessarily sober but they weren't heavy drinkers and it was it kind of gave me. It ramped up the conversation in my own head. So I started in 2020, I started doing a micro dosing protocol and it was like I was. I was struggling at the time, you know, depression, anxiety, like, just kind of like like lethargic life like it was. It was tough, it was heavy, just having moved to just just going through a breakup the year before really bad breakup and moving, moving to Austin not really knowing anybody. There was a lot of things that were to play and so in that I felt a little bit of freedom as like wow, I get to kind of like create my own adventure here, and so the micro dosing that was what led me to Fit for Service. And then in Fit for Service, I had the opportunity to do a full like my first full, like mushroom ceremony, which was, you know, previously. It was, you know, at a concert or festival. I did a lot of mushrooms, but it wasn't that intentional ceremony and I did a. It was at the Sedona event for service and I did a mushroom ceremony at the beginning of the week and then a wachuma ceremony at the end of the week and let me tell you what, like none, neither of those were enjoyable. It was, you know, seven years sober, seven years clear of alcohol, and I was like I left AA and I kind of had this, like it was arrogance. It was kind of like oh, I'm done, I'm good, I'm good. And so I was like I wasn't like in danger of drinking or anything. But I also didn't really give my alcoholic identity the space to breathe in, the space to be loved. I had kind of exiled that version of me like oh, stay over there, stay in the corner, you're not welcome here. And so in those two ceremonies that guy came back back and I had this, like you know, the miserable, anxious, paranoid conversation of like you're still an addict, like you're going to be doing cocaine in a week, and especially in the wachuma ceremony the mushroom ceremony was a little less, but it was still I had that like what am I doing? Oh, my gosh, like I'm ruining everything. And just, you know, it was rating myself, that programming, shaking loose with that, that doc, that dogma about that. And then the wachuma ceremony was awful and everyone talks about wachuma being like a warm hug from your grandfather. I'm like I don't know what you're talking about.

Speaker 2:

No, not my experience at all. Well, can you? I've never heard of wachuma, can you? Explain what that is.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 3:

Pedro cactus. It's that tall, looks like a. If you cut it, cut the cross section looks like a star fruit. Yes, that tall back. So they boil that down and it turns into a psychedelic group. Okay, a little bit thick. They usually put like ginger and lemon in it to make it taste a little better. So we were in Sedona, we all got together on the side of a river, is beautiful setting and this there's, there's there's the experience of the wachuma and this, this like, oh my gosh, like the addict is, like I am, I am that again, I was literally reliving like my entire addiction experience, as it's like, okay, it's back and I'm here and I just fucked everything up. And so, as, towards the end of that ceremony, they had Bufo and so we all walked down the river and they gave us they kind of walked around and gave us all the meditative doses of the Bufo, and that moment I remember the only thing that kept going through my head was okay, it will never be the same. I had this experience of unicity and it's like looking up at the trees and seeing human lungs and feeling the ground and like not being able to get my hands deep enough into the ground, of just this like connection and I full disclosure I ended up naked in the river. I just need, I need this nature all over me. How?

Speaker 2:

can I get more into this?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, exactly Like. Where else can I go?

Speaker 1:

And for our listeners quick. Can you explain what Bufo is?

Speaker 3:

So Bufo is the five MEO DMT. It's the venom of the Bufo alvarious toad, which is the Colorado River toad or the Sonoran Desert toad lives in the Sonoran Desert, which is Northwest Mexico, southern Arizona, lives in the ground for nine months out of the year cultivating this venom and this God molecule and its glands, and then it comes out in about September or so in the rainy season and the Comac Indians will harvest ethically very no harm to the toad at all. They'll harvest the venom and dry it out and it turns into a kind of like a yellow, flaky, crystal-y substance and you vaporize it and inhale. One inhale and it's straight shot to source the most powerful psychedelic on the planet. Yeah, and that's the one that I serve. That's the message I serve, oh you serve Bufo. Yeah, all right, we're coming to.

Speaker 2:

Austin.

Speaker 3:

That's. I was talking with our mutual friend about it, yeah. We'll get that one, we'll make a road trip happen, sign me up, I'm gonna be coming there, so we'll see.

Speaker 2:

Oh, heck, yeah, even better. So this was like the experience that.

Speaker 3:

So this was a kind of a toe in the water of the Bufo experience and then after I mean, it last 20 minutes, so after that we're off. Then you know, I was back in the miserable Wachuma experience. That experience was a like a just a brief glimpse into holy shit. Like there's, like this is it's life will never be the same. Like after I've experienced this and seen what I've seen and felt what I felt, there is no going back from this Right. And so that was the service. And then, a few months later, some people in tip for service had been our facilitators of it as well and they came to Austin and I did my full first sit with Bufo, which is like so the meditation, meditative doses of a smaller amount where you don't fully blast off but you definitely go deep into the medicine. I mean there's really no like a micro dose of Bufo. It's just not. It's not possible. It's such a powerful medicine. And so I sat with the first full blast off threshold breakthrough dose and my first thought there was that was the healing that I needed every day since the day I was born. So I had, I had, some birth trauma. I came out like basically unable to breathe, my umbilical cord is around my head and I had severe asthma and severe food allergies, tendency to choke on my food a lot as a kid. So a lot of breath stuff, throat stuff, and I had been in this like, excuse me, fight, resistance, fear for 44 years, and that from that moment all of that just went away. It was a moment of the ultimate moment of surrender and it was like and that's the thing about Bufo that's different than all the others is that, you know, even with the ayahuasca, like you're still kind of driving the bus, just a little bit, like still it's because it's so long. It's like six hours of mushrooms, or nine hours with ayahuasca, or 24 with iboga, like the human is still there. With Bufo it's 20 minutes and the human is absolutely gone. And so that means that the body, the spirit, gets to experience and free themselves of all that. You know, the body keeps a score, all that trauma that the body's been holding on to it. Just it leaves because the brain is disconnected. And so that's the experience I had. And the most profound thing was like four or five days later I was sitting there meditating and I just and I literally for the first time I've meditated for 20 years, the first time ever where I actually had the thoughtless experience of like there's nothing here, like it is so quiet here I don't know what to do with myself and it was because, like all that trauma and all that fear and all that like stuff, that I cared with me 44 years was gone. Like that volume hundred noise in my head was down to like a three. It's never gone back up to a hundred. I mean it goes back up to the 20s or so. Like there's moments when I get anxious, but for the most part like it's gone.

Speaker 2:

That gave me chills.

Speaker 1:

It gave me. I'm so glad we're talking to you right now.

Speaker 2:

I know this is like such a breath of fresh air, just even like I know connecting. We needed this today we really did, we needed some safe male energy that we could talk to.

Speaker 1:

So what do you all serve in? What's your role in the psychedelic space?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so well, I'll tell more about my journey, if you want first. Yeah sure I sat with Bufo, I pretty much knew right away that that was going to be my medicine. So the guys that I work with I said, if I experienced this, I am kind of it's my duty to bring this to the man that I work with. And it turned into every man and woman and couples and all the things, and so it I sat with it probably three or four times in the next four months. It kind of it would appear where I was, I was. It came back to Austin and then the people that I sat with the first time, their facility, their mentor, came to Austin for some, for some ceremonies, and then I was in Miami with service and it was there again and so I sat out again and I just was going into this like this. Every time it was just like deeper, deeper, deeper healing. And then I then that brought me to moving in Mexico and to loom for eight months and I was like I was talking to the facilitators that helped me the first time and I said you know, please let me know if there's any ceremonies I can sit with, like I really want to get on this path and like I will let you know. And I was. I was kind of reaching. I was like, let me, can I, can I help, can I help, can I help? They were like wait, just wait, just wait. And finally I was like, all right, I get it, I'll wait, like the medicine will the medicine knows. And then, when I was in to loom, it turns out their mentor, the person that trained them, the native native, uh, serri tribe. He lived in like 20 minutes away from where I was in to loom and so I sat with him a couple of times when I was down there and then he started inviting me to help with ceremonies down there. So, um, I essentially was in Mexico doing the apprenticeship for Bufo and then, when I left Mexico, he gave me some of the medicines like he ready here, start those serving. And so it worked out beautifully. And then, when I was in Mexico, I also went down to Peru and sat with ayahuasca for the first time, spent three weeks in the jungle. Um, and you know, it was all like this 2020, year of 2020, when I started myocardosis and I got in, fit for service and had these opportunities the, the, the AA, was obviously an upward trajectory. And then I left and it was the like straight up the side of, like I don't know, half dome in the Yosemite, like it was a hockey stick moment when I, when I shifted onto that path and the healing that I've experienced and the growth that I've experienced in the past um four years has been more than I've experienced in the whole, you know, 23 years in and out of rehabs. Like all the, all the stuff, like it's just been exponential growth from the, from using these medicines and tapping into what I because it really for me these medicines are about. It's not even so much an intention like definitely getting out of the expectation game, but the intention for me is what do I not know? Like show me what I don't know because I can. I've I did so much 15 years of therapy and AA and step work and like all that stuff that I know about. And then these cycles keep repeating and I'm like there's something I don't know here. And that's the beauty of these medicines is what do I not know that I now get to know so that when I go forward I can die with a sense of completion. Because if it's, if it's not, if I don't, if I keep operating on all the only things I know as a human, it's going to be a very limited experience, wow.

Speaker 2:

I'm reading a lot right now into like Joseph Campbell's hero's journey and how it relates to, you know, psilocybin, and Terence McKenna's heroic journey, and then there's also like this heroine's journey that I have just recently started diving into, where I'm like, oh my God, this is different than the hero's journey, but I feel like it's. It's this once you start, once you have one of those type of journeys, like it never stops, like it's like you keep having this circle of okay, what now? What is there Now? What's the next thing? Okay, I've learned this thing, what's next? Like when you stop doing that, you're dead. Like there's no, why would you ever stop wanting to know more?

Speaker 3:

It's 100% agree with you, and that's the difference between, like, waking up and staying asleep. Once you wake up, like you're, like, you almost like I'm not gonna say I seek out like painful experiences, but you're like, every time that one shows up, it's, it's the intensity and the length of it is Massively decreased because, like I know this is here for me, right, even burnt, this burning man was a really difficult experience and I'm like, okay, like this is hard, but I know there's something here for me, I know there's something that I had not previously known, that I'm gonna get to know right now. And Every experience becomes that when, once you have these experiences like you're talking about, on the, on the journeys, the hair, here's journey yeah, yeah, the curiosity never ends. Yes, and it's, it's all like okay. So I get to expand now.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, right, and it's, it's. I think a lot of people who are really like dipping their toes into this space Think that there is, they see where people are and they're like that's where I want to be, but they don't see all the hard stuff that that Happened along the way and they don't see all the hard stuff that happens presently, like we still Struggle and we still have these moments and, instead of getting lost in them or drowning in them, we're very much like you like. Okay, there's a reason this is happening. There's something in this that I need to be learning. This will pass teaching me yes. Yes, and that's, I think, the biggest difference. We're not escaping reality. There is no running from the hard truths or the uncomfortable moments. We're almost Running towards them with curiosity.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, absolutely very well said, kind of good more.

Speaker 2:

We have been wanting to ask someone about this, because we know very little and and this I'm excited that that you're in this space, because you talk a lot about the conscious man, the conscious woman, the wounded masculine, the wounded feminine and for I don't want to say dumb it down For our listeners can you kind of explain what the difference between a wounded masculine and a conscious masculine is?

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So I mean, I think we're coming out of this. But you know, for the past few years it's been that the toxic masculine and I'm glad we're coming out of it because that's not really a thing like. There is toxicity to the behavior and it creates a very destructive environment. But I think to call the, to call the masculine toxic, is an attack, and what it is is that that's wounded. It's it's very wounded, unhealed, unintegrated, masculine. And so what that looks like is, you know, like very simple level, it's the, the man that can't control his anger, it's the man that can't control his sexuality, it's the man that can't control his, his tongue, his words, and and what it does is that it's a very reactionary way of living. So a lot, a lot of times, what I work with guys on is how well do you cultivate the ability to respond and not react? So reactings that like, oh, I feel hurt, I feel scared, I feel uninsured, I feel weak, I'm gonna be angry, I'm gonna abuse, I'm gonna use drugs, I'm gonna use porn, I'm gonna do whatever to react in a destructive way which feels good for like a split second, and then there's, you know, then there's more damage to clean up from, whereas the, the heel masculine, the integrated, the conscious masculine, has that ability to just take a one breath, you know, or more if possible, but just really Radically assess a situation and say how do I not react to this? Because the reaction is gonna be, the action is gonna be very destructive and unsafe and rigid. How do I take back and say I actually have a dial within me, not a switch, so that if this, this, this, this situation requires me to be at a four, I'm gonna turn it up to a four. If it requires an eight, I'll go to an eight. If I need to go back to a six, I can do that too. It has that the ability of the, the, the, the pausing and the breathing and the vision and the awareness. So masculine, conscious awareness is that it's the 360 degree awareness of all of it. So this is why you like, breathing into the lower Dante and in the core is so important. And Practicing, sitting and imagining yourself expanding out to the, to the house. You're in the city, you're in the state, you're in the country, you're in and cultivating this masculine awareness. That's what is attractive, that's what, that's what breeds safety and and when men are so confined, like almost the opposite of a expansion, where it's like a inward lock and key. That's when it's, you know, there's no room to move there, there's no room to flow, there's no room to hold anything. And so that's when women feel unsafe, that's when children feel unsafe, that's when other men are, you know, intimidated and by the arrogance or the ignorance of other men. So to cultivate, like to Find out, those things exist probably in most men, I would say and then to work yourself back, to go in and do this deep work that we just been talking about, of saying, great, why, okay, I understand that I'm a little rigid in my sake. Well, that's great, but why? How did that? How did that start? Where did that come from? You know what? What traumas am I holding in my, in my body? What traumas in my? What stories am I holding on to what? Where am I? Where am I looking away? That's one of the major tenants of any conscious mask in this is not looking away, even if it's the most horrific thing you've ever seen about yourself or another person. Maintain the eye contact, maintain the intensity of the presence, the unwavering presence, because what that does is the masculine role, is the meticulous creation and holding of the culture around him. Right and so if you're having a culture like I don't see that or I'm gonna respond with a punch like that's not creating any sort of Safe or happy or trust in culture at all.

Speaker 1:

Now, when you talk about safety, I think a lot of men are very reactive to that statement because it's like you know I don't hit you and you know you have this house and I buy you this stuff and you know, like, what do you have to feel unsafe about? Can you kind of explain from what safety means and and why women and children, why they may not feel safe, even though they don't really maybe understand the term safety?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so that's the presence, like so, yeah, okay, I've gotten this house and you have the nice car and the kids are in good schools. And when was the last time we dropped in and talked? When was the last time that we were actually intimate, most, last time that we were able to sit me to me, I die, and breathe together? When was the last time we connected? Because if there's no connection, there you're, you're essentially Like other people in that culture the, the wife or the girlfriend or the kids or whoever. The mom there it's not. Yeah, they don't feel like they're gonna get hit, but they don't feel like they have any sort of support either.

Speaker 1:

You know one Well, and for me I was, I was abused, and so you know, even though in relationships with men they weren't necessarily hitting me, it triggered that same response and my response was to fight back and argue back and continue to escalate it.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and so, first of all, I'm very sorry to hear that you had that experience. That's really awful, thank you. It breaks my heart every time I hear it. I'm the, the, the bracing. So you have, like you, you experienced like that. And so now that's like anything that would even suggest coming close to that of of a not being supported, of being so the man that, like, provides all those things but isn't present. He isn't, there's no support there, there's no safety there, and so, as humans, what we do, our nervous systems, we, we, we start to brace and we start to say, okay, this is basically happening. The mind is a very interesting thing, where it, you know, we have that reptilian brain where it goes to like probably the worst case there. So if you have that experience of actually being hit, then it's, it's the, the opposite of that is the Opposite way to say. That is feeling very unprotected and in danger. So anything that moves you in that direction, your, your brain, is immediately and go to okay, we're getting hit again, we're gonna brace, we're gonna shut down and we're gonna actually attack because that feels more powerful, we're gonna escalate, for whatever reason that the nervous system Decides in that moment, but it's, it's the body doing its, its survival mode in the most massive overdrive.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

So I, are you married, first of all.

Speaker 3:

No, I was when I was 27.

Speaker 2:

So you guys hear that here's a, here's a healing masculine.

Speaker 1:

I.

Speaker 2:

There's a reason I'm asking that, because I do. You know, I'm very, very happy that that my husband has moved from that unhealed, wounded masculine into this Space, where now sometimes I look at him and I'm like I don't even know who you are anymore, like he's. He's a lot softer around the edges. He has this like inner wisdom that I'm like I can't believe that just came out of your mouth like type of thing. But before that shift I was very much in this healing space Like a year before he was a little bit longer than that. It was very difficult To be in a relationship with someone that wounded. I don't like. I'm kind of with you on the word toxic. I don't like saying toxic anymore, but the wounded, knowing that I was moving away from that and I am very lucky that it switched. But how do you in this day and age live With someone like that or date people when you are in this space of healing and they are not? What is? How does that even work?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it doesn't. Yeah, there's a great, there's a great quote that I read. I read it. I've seen it many times in my life, but it takes on more resonance every time and it is a I hope that you meet someone that speaks the language of your soul, so you don't have to spend your whole life translating. And so this is, yeah, wow, and this, this is a foreign, this is a foreign language to a lot of people. Like this is a Legit, different language than English to be able to speak and to have and a lot of things and a lot of Like you and your husband. Like it's very common for the woman to lead the way into this.

Speaker 1:

We talk about that a lot.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, women have so much like more, generate like deeper generational shit that's been created by men. So, like, essentially, the women are like we, we have the witch wounds and we have the our grandmothers and our mothers and our great-grandmothers. Like men, they, they have it, but it was all but that all all that stuff was caused by so many generations of men being oppressive and Abusive, and so women have been on this path For longer than men and I see it all the time where, like you and your husband, like I'm so glad that he caught up only a year After you, because I see women like they come, women comments on my stuff all the time about my god, I wish my husband would just get in the arena, just get on board, because men, they like they don't see it yet, a lot of men don't see it yet, and so to get into the relationships, it's I mean, I've tried like to like get on the apps and the connections and it's like within the first like three words, it's like Now, it's not I'm not saying I'm better, or it's not like a Above and be above and below thing. It's just that I know that, like, unless you speak this language, unless you do this work. There's nothing here, so it's it's a separate thing. It's a separate thing. It's a separate thing. It's, it's a separation. And you know, it's this, it's an awakening, it's a conjugal, active awakening, that there's gonna be some people left behind and some people that aren't willing to step in and that continue to, you know, abuse alcohol, continue to Operate asleep, that continue just to be these warm bodies and men and women both, but men more, because women are more willing to do this and have these conversations and to have this language. I mean, part of it is is that you guys have been, you know, trained forever to get into groups and, you know, talk and feel and be with each other. Or men are like no, we do it over the loan, the loan will stuff, and so, um, in the dating realm it's almost like the first filter is like I'll throw some, I'll just speak my language, and if they respond like what does that even mean? I'm like, yeah, probably not gonna do the same. I mean you're exactly go ahead, sorry yeah no, you first go ahead.

Speaker 2:

I was gonna say like women have been doing this for a long time, even like in the bar bathrooms, like women congregate Exactly. And we're like lifting each other up and like, oh my.

Speaker 3:

God girl, I love your hair yeah.

Speaker 2:

I don't see men doing that in the men's restroom.

Speaker 3:

No, I actually. It's funny to say that because I actually on my last night at Burning man, I went out with these three Australian dudes that were there. They're also. They do the same work I do. We're all coaches and we connected during the week. But I was like I'm leaving tomorrow night, bro, we gotta go out and like the whole night like and even me being in this work like the whole night. We were like talking about, bro, I've seen your growth of the past year. It's been so amazing Like I love how you stepped into this new role and I love how you show up for your woman, and like it was a night of just gassing each other up the entire night at Burning man. It was like I was even a little caught off guard but I was like, bro, this is so fucking nice to be just in this little group that we're in chewing around Burning man and just gassing each other up and talking about how much we love each other, and it was just like looking out for each other, like you're good, you're good. It was just, oh my God, and you rarely see that with men, rarely see it with men. I told them that I was like, oh, it's so good to be in this little group, that you guys are interacting with this, because this is exactly what my heart needed after this burn.

Speaker 2:

I love that.

Speaker 1:

So can you speak on a wounded feminine? Because I think too, when you say masculine, people automatically assume it's a man, and if you say wounded feminine, people automatically assume it's a woman. And for me I was too much in my masculine. In my masculine, oh did we lose him again.

Speaker 2:

I think, so Give it a second.

Speaker 1:

Oh, there he is. Okay, he's back.

Speaker 2:

Okay, okay.

Speaker 1:

Yep, you just froze again.

Speaker 3:

So like the wounded inner feminine. For the masculine you mean yeah, yeah, so I mean so the masculine is structure, the woman is flow, the feminine is flow, it's love, it's the masculine, the talking for awareness. The woman is the love, the energy, the life force. And I think that, from what I've seen and this kind of goes, it kind of crosses both like a wounded, actual feminine identified being, and the feminine and the man. It's the inability to control that chaos. So like, if it's like, if it's a wounded feminine identified being in the relationship, it might look a lot like a lot of moving targets, like she'll be like hey, I need you to meet me here with intimacy Great man means for there. She's like okay, well, I need you to meet me over here with steadiness. Okay, great, I'm over here, I'm steady. I need you to meet me over here with joy and pleasure. Okay, I'm like. And then it's like, I'm kind of like, you know, you're moving the target on me, all in. And so that same thing translates back to the man who can't decide on a purpose, who can't decide on a way of being, who can't decide on who he is, cause, yeah, Shit. Are you there?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, sorry, you just froze again.

Speaker 3:

You froze too. Where'd you lose me?

Speaker 2:

Can't decide on a sense of purpose, and that was it.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so, yeah, so you just like. So the inner feminine of the man is like that, very unsteady, unstable, chaotic, not erotic, but what's there's like a I can't think of the word Erotic it's like erotic, erotic, yes, yes, erotic. Sorry, I'm just kind of burning in for it. So it's that and that to the woman feels. That's when the woman has to step in and be heavy in her masculine because she's like, well, someone's gotta have structure here and if it's not gonna be you, I guess I'm gonna do it. And that's when the thing, the polarities, get all fucking thrown off. So that's, that's what I've kind of landed on. That's like what a wounded feminine energy is.

Speaker 1:

So how can you bring the two together?

Speaker 3:

Internally or in a sacred union, both, both Okay cool, okay cool. I mean one leads to the other. You know the answer to the other One the masculine's got. I really understand. You know there's there's this thing about men being too feminine and it's it's still as much as it's. It's a a relevant conversation. It's still a conversation about, like, I can't be too feminine. So what the masculine has to do is integrate that feminine, integrate that idea that, like rigidity is not the way. Structure and rigidity are two different things. Structure is that I'm here, I'm holding, I'm unwavering and within that I get to be really movie and flowy and aware of all of it. So if I'm, if I'm only focused, laser focused on like her holding, you know it really doesn't allow for any of my own feminine to come through. And like the creative process and like this goes into things like sex, magic and intimacy and how well am I able to hold the, that internal chaos, that internal flow that I know is there. That if I that feels, feel the feminine energy, feels weird to the masculine. But that until you integrate it, until you get it, until you get a handle on it, and then understand that, like the more that you can, it's. I mean, I have a pretty heavier feminine. Not, I'm not heavier feminine than masculine, but like as a masculine, as an identified being, my feminine is pretty strong. And so what it is is that I really get to like almost put more intention on my masculine and so that I can create rituals and create routines and create things that make me feel grounded in my masculine, so that I do allow my feminine not to overtake but to live. Now when that is and that's grounded inside. That's when you can invite another feminine identified being in Forsakered Union and allow. Then, now that the masculine has been grounded into and I hold that container, I hold that safe place and I hold that presence then the feminine gets to come in and be a little chaotic and be flowy and be lovey and be sexy and be all the things that the feminine wants to be. And I get to receive it not control it, but just receive it and hold for it and know that she gets to be who she's gonna be. And then there's an element of holding each other accountable to this. Like. The Sacred Union is the most potent ceremony that ever has existed. It's beyond any. There's no plant that can come and come close to it, because it will constantly show you blind spots. It'll constantly show you what you don't know. It'll constantly call you forward. The past couple of years I've been dancing in a Sacred Union and it has been. There's some moments when it's been. Really one thing that it brought up for me was the amount of shame that I carry, and it showed up earlier this year and I had to. It blew up, it self-destructed and immediately I was saying like what happened there, and I ran. I ran for my shame because it was the thing I didn't know about and the way it was showing up was that I couldn't step. I couldn't step into the power.

Speaker 1:

Shit.

Speaker 3:

I'll come back Inability.

Speaker 1:

Sorry, we lost you out. I couldn't step into the power I couldn't step into.

Speaker 3:

It's okay, no, it's all good. I couldn't step into my masculine because all I felt was that I was this little kid being told I was wrong or getting kicked on and so. And then I saw that and immediately I was like okay, this is the work, and this is the beauty of having done the work for so long. Is that, within like two, three months, this will be.

Speaker 1:

Oh my gosh.

Speaker 3:

We're expanding Hang on.

Speaker 1:

We lost you out within two or three months. I'm sorry.

Speaker 2:

That's okay, no, we're like very invested in this story.

Speaker 1:

I'm so into talking to you, so I really hate that this is happening.

Speaker 3:

It's okay, it's okay, yeah, so where was it? Within two or?

Speaker 2:

three months Within two, or three months Within two or three months.

Speaker 3:

Within two or three months it had been shifted and we reconnected and it was like we were both like where has this been for the past 18 months? Because we were, we had both like the energy popped apart and we did the work. And you know, I looked at the things that you look at like where was I? Not I wasn't. Shame will take you right out of your body and into your head and heart beat. And so once you, and then once for me, once I get up in here, it's then. It's overthinking, it's obsessing, it's shutting down, it's not wanting to be intimate, it's isolation, it's all the destructive traits of the wounded masculine. And what it is is really. It's a wounded little boy that never got some love and so turned to that little boy and just say you know, I got you.

Speaker 2:

Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1:

Wow. So what consists of? A sacred union, because I'm sure most, like most people have no idea what that means.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so it's what we just talked about. It's that both people, both partners, are leaning in, willing to do the work, have identified their masculine energies, that there is a non, there's a non-reactivity to it, in a sense, that it's based in the loving conscious awareness and you know it's. It will like your wounds will come up and the other person's going to know about your wounds. And then it's that feedback loop or that communication loop of like, okay, I know that this happened to you when you were two years old and I am, I'm here to hold that version of you and not use it against you to wound you further. That's a big one, yeah, knowing, knowing your partner's wounds and not not weaponizing your partner's traumas because they because in sacred union present, they will be present, and whether all the work you've done on them you I've done work, work, work, work, work and does not mean that they are not going to be present. And it's it's, it's that creating that culture, that container that says, right now, I feel like I felt when my mom yelled at me when I was eight, like I'm doing something wrong, like my needs are, I'm not supported where it is and the other, and it's, it's an ability that the other person doesn't make it about them. If there's a, if there's something that happens, it has to really be, has to be that support because if, if, like, if something happens external of the relationship and the the, the person that was experiencing that comes in and says and now feels attacked within the relationship, that's going to be really hard to overcome. But if they have a place, if it's basically this, it's the safe, it's the safest place you could ever come in your life and know that there is no risk of rejection or abandonment.

Speaker 2:

So it feels like baseline, like you're coming home.

Speaker 3:

Home, it's home. It's home Shit. Yeah. It's like it's just that, it's the it's so hard to put words on it. It's such a knowing, you know it's such a, just like the first time in your life you take a deep breath. The first time in your life you sleep. The first time in your life you feel held. You know it's scary as shit yeah.

Speaker 1:

No, I can only imagine.

Speaker 2:

I feel, like Christine, we're working. I think we're working towards that. Yeah, not already in it, like it, I don't know. There's just been this shift, even recently in my life, in my relationship with Christine, in our energy aligning and in my marriage. This shift happened a couple of months ago and it's just been wild to feel this piece from all angles. If that makes sense In alignment. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

I heard it's been wild too.

Speaker 2:

Oh, it's been wild to kind of feel that sense of like peace.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and this, like it's almost hard to. It's kind of like, first of all, I'm so glad that you've got that, because it's amazing and it's something that's so foreign to us that it's like wait a second, what's going on here At first, and then, as you learn to trust that, it's the wow. This is everything I've ever needed.

Speaker 2:

Wow, yeah, I feel like I need to renew my vows or something Absolutely. I was getting like super emotional earlier because I was like, oh my God, we're doing the work, shit.

Speaker 1:

So is that something that you offer? Motherfucker? This is an interview I need to not cut out. Okay, sorry.

Speaker 2:

It cut off and she said so is this? Is this something that you offer, like this?

Speaker 3:

Relationship coaching.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 3:

Yes, I do. I work with couples on this, on communication, on the holding of the space, the masculine role, the feminine role, creating the culture, the allowance of it all. I mean it's so deep in so many levels that so many couples have built these cadences around conflict initiated conversations. They only talk about hard things. When conflict comes up it's even break that to the individual. I only do the work when something painful happens, so couples will only have these conversations when it's you didn't take out the. It can go from the garbage to like you cheated on me. But like they wait people wait to have these conversations and then, when they have the conversations, no one's listening, they're just bad at their own arrows at each other and spit in fire. And so to teach, teach couples that you get to have these conversations frequently, monthly, and then, when you do, when conflict does arise, there's a way that you can talk to each other and we'll make each other feel safe and trust and deepen your connection. There's value in conflict. My buddy, john Lilan, talks about this. How, what do you make conflict mean? What do you? Do you rush through conflict, are you like? How do we get to the end of this quicker? Or do you allow it to breathe and do you allow it to show you and lead you to what, what the next evolution of you, of the us, it's existing, is?

Speaker 2:

I kind of wish so good. I think we're closer, because there is one thing you said earlier about like women having this community and we have these like women circles, and Christine and I are like we know several of them, so it's like any given Saturday we can take our pick and be like we're going to go to this woman circle this time. There's not a lot of that here for men.

Speaker 1:

If anywhere, for men.

Speaker 2:

And that kind of sucks, because I think that my husband is open to it but has no idea where to even start. You mentioned the sacred sons. I actually. That podcast, like literally, was just sent to me a couple of weeks ago and I'd never heard of it before. And they were like you, your husband should check this out. And I was like okay, I'll pass the information. So how can you create that or cultivate that in a place where that's not really a thing?

Speaker 3:

Yes, I mean, thank God for online stuff. There's a bunch of stuff online. There's some men's groups online and a lot of the online stuff will do, like you know, a mastermind type thing, where it's three, six or nine months and then they'll meet up three or four times.

Speaker 2:

And do you facilitate these as well, like the online men's groups?

Speaker 3:

I actually launched my one. It's called decide it's it's about, because men just don't make decisions. They just wait until that painful moment and then it's like, oh, I have to do something and you get to decide, before that happens, to reinvest in your woman, to reinvest in your relationship, to show up for yourself. It doesn't have to get to the point. So I'm watching that in the next couple of months.

Speaker 2:

Perfect. Yeah, good to know, good to know.

Speaker 3:

I'll send you the information bye.

Speaker 1:

He cut out.

Speaker 3:

Okay, he's back, I'm going to go inside and see if that's okay.

Speaker 2:

It was such a pretty view.

Speaker 3:

I know Okay, okay. So you know there's so many different brands of it out there. You know you got like John Myland and you got Sacred Sons and you've got all these other things and there's like the yogic approach and then there's the Sacred Sons is heavy into kind of combat, like sacred combat approach, where they do a lot of male intimacy is what it really is, but it's getting close to men and you know there's a lot of value in releasing that energy and tapping into the primal aspect of combat and fighting. And there's so many different, like every as you go through this process, I think men that step onto the path and do the work. They are like I did Sacred Sons leadership training and I facilitated a bunch of their weekends and I did their, I did their convergence, which was mind blowing for me. I've done a bunch of other things as well and you know it's it goes back to take what you need, like I've created what I've created from all the experiences of having education and I've done and all that stuff. And adding in breath work, and Sacred Sons doesn't really do breath work but a lot of other people do, and so for your husband or any man that's looking is like do the research and see what resonates, because it's got. If it doesn't resonate, you're going to go and it's actually going to potentially be more traumatic. You know you're going to have an experience where, like this is awful, I don't want to be here. It's got to really have a resonance with you.

Speaker 1:

So yeah. So what else do you offer? What types of services?

Speaker 3:

So I have my one-on-one coaching, which is I coach mostly men. I have some female clients and I have some couple clients. The couple clients is usually the wife will reach out to me and then I'll be like we need to bring your wife in on this. So it turns into this is a couple thing and so it's mostly one-on-one coaching with men. I do group, I do private retreats which are plant medicine based. I do private ceremonies, one-off ceremonies, with either the Bufo or mushrooms. The private retreats are four days of. We start off with breath work. On the first day we do Bufo, we do mushrooms and then a full day of basically an integration workshop teaching them all the things they're going to need to regulate the nervous system. Any of my containers have coaching in the front If it's plant medicine. The retreats of the ceremonies is three or four weeks of coaching in the front, preparation the ceremony, the retreat, and then six or eight weeks of coaching on the other side of it, so that I hold the container for essentially what's like three months, no matter what.

Speaker 1:

That's amazing.

Speaker 2:

And then I do yeah thank you.

Speaker 3:

I offer breath work as well, so I can do one-off. Did I freeze again, yeah?

Speaker 2:

I think you can tell from our faces.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I totally can. Where did it work?

Speaker 2:

We're like you offer breath work, and then that was it.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so breath work. I do one-off breath work or breath work Also. It's part of anything that I do, so if we're doing ceremony or retreat together, breath work will be part of our integration. If we're doing one-off coaching, we'll do two or three different breath work journeys throughout the process.

Speaker 2:

Oh my gosh. I just want to say like this was like such a blessing to have this conversation with you, like I don't think I can say that enough, but I really think we needed to have this with you specifically today. There was a reason for this.

Speaker 1:

You have such a beautiful energy and you, just you, feel safe and I'm not going to lie, I was a little nervous to do this interview because we had such a bad experience last week where I feel like both of us felt we didn't feel safe in that conversation, so to have another man come on and completely turn that around has been, honestly, kind of healing for today.

Speaker 3:

Thank you.

Speaker 2:

That's what I feel like. This was a very healing conversation, even though we were like trying to let our listeners hear about you. We're like, oh, this was for us.

Speaker 3:

It's also divine, just as you guys, it was for you like this was healing for me, too. You know, back to burn, it was a very difficult burn, and to come in and be able to open up and have this conversation with you, too, has been absolutely healing for me as well. So thank you, too, for the space you've created.

Speaker 1:

Thank you. Thank you, how can people find you?

Speaker 3:

Are we back?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we're back.

Speaker 3:

You're back now.

Speaker 2:

This is all part of the divine plan.

Speaker 3:

We have all these little freezes, we totally are going to Exactly. Instagram at Sam Gibbs Morris is the best way to find me and from there I have links to my website and all that stuff.

Speaker 2:

Perfect, perfect. And we'll share all of your stuff too, Absolutely. Thank you, Sam, for your time today and for your energy and for what you do in this space, and to all of our listeners Stay curious, be open and we will see you on the other side.

Speaker 3:

Thank you so much.

Interview With Thought Leader Sam Morris
Recovery, AA, and Psychedelics
Bufo
Explore Men's Conscious Awareness
Exploring Wounded Feminine and Masculine Energies
Creating Safe and Supportive Relationships
Finding Sam Gibbs Morris Through Gratitude