See You On The Other Side

62 | Endora's Journey: From Spiritual Awakening to Plant Medicine

September 05, 2023 Leah & Christine Season 2 Episode 62
See You On The Other Side
62 | Endora's Journey: From Spiritual Awakening to Plant Medicine
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Ever embarked on a journey that awakened your soul and transformed you? Our guest, Endora Todd, takes us on an extraordinary spiritual adventure in this episode. We start with an exploration into the wonders of Hapé, a sacred tobacco medicine revered by many indigenous tribes globally. We learn first hand about its purifying effects and the deep communion it allows with one's self.

Endora’s spiritual awakening is a story that will leave you captivated. From a dream to a profound realization of love across all religions, her journey leads her to become a healer and plant medicine facilitator. We also address the not-so-easy part of being a black woman in the plant medicine space, a realm where the importance of lineage and sacredness is sometimes overlooked.

Finally, we navigate through the shadowy corridors of our psyche, discussing the power of confronting our darkness to unlock self-love and power. Uncover the beauty of curiosity and how it can lead to greater self-awareness and understanding of the world around us. As we wrap up, we discuss the spiritual significance of Hapé and its role in shaping the new Earth. Prepare to be mesmerized as Endora unravels the profound world of plant medicine.

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Speaker 1:

And Dora. Yes, we are so happy to have you back, and I'm saying back Because you were here last week and Leah and I Did a hot bae ceremony with you. Yes, and can you go into what hop is?

Speaker 2:

first of all, I definitely can okay um, hot bae is a beautiful, sacred tobacco medicine that is Honored by many indigenous people all over the world, from Australia to Africa. But most people know the hot bae here in our hemisphere, south America, in Central America, and the tobacco that is used is 20 times stronger than the tobacco here in the United States of these Americas. And then it is dried and prayed over and sung to and cared for, and then it's paired with any flowers and herbs and roots and it's ground down into a fine powder out of the ash and it's typically a Utilized through the nose and what it does is essentially it purifies it opens up your first eye and your crown and allow for communion with yourselves.

Speaker 3:

I Love that description, can I ask? I've never heard first I. I've heard third eye. What's first?

Speaker 2:

I, that is your Original. I your first, I. People like to call it your third eye, but that's your. That's the eye that is everlasting. Is your first? I, not your third.

Speaker 3:

I know, I kind of like that, like we're like saying it by number, like it's the third one. It is like no, actually that was the first interesting Wow.

Speaker 1:

Interesting and hoppe is legal hoppe is totally legal.

Speaker 2:

Yeah totally legal. You can find it all over Some smoke shops but I would not suggest. But you can get it in all 50 states and territories so you won't be going to the clinker If you partake with hoppe so we did a hoppe ceremony with you last week last week, yes, and it put us on our ass.

Speaker 1:

So we did this ceremony and then we were gonna record, but I was not In the place to record. As you can see, today I'm in a much better. Much better state your vessel is to To interview you were before. I was just like that's a lot of things, people, they, they don't understand.

Speaker 2:

It's like, oh, it's just tobacco and some flowers. I'll be good. No, especially when you honor the medicine. The medicine is like oh you, you want to work, let's do this.

Speaker 1:

So what? What is, what is? What are the benefits of hoppe because it cleaned my ass out?

Speaker 2:

There you go.

Speaker 1:

That's one Figure you can because I threw up a lot.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you could purge different ways, from the front and the back, to put it nicely, I was just the front.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I'm also glad for that, yeah.

Speaker 2:

I mean, I've been with hoppe a long time and I still get the hoppe poops.

Speaker 3:

So I feel that's like the only thing I have to compare that to is like the mushroom poops, like Well and kind of so I guess maybe it's similar to ayahuasca in that sense, maybe right.

Speaker 2:

Well, all plant medicine is can be purgatory. It can, it can allow you to, and all it is is a release of stuck energy. So some people cry. And then also it aids in the release of that mucus between your pituitary gland and that penile gland and it allows for that first eye to Commune with the cosmos. So that is the benefits. Also, it acts as a nervous system regulator, so it allows your nervous system to come. So that's why you felt like, oh, I want to go to sleep.

Speaker 1:

It's that okay. So obviously we're not gonna. We're not gonna post this, but After we did hoppe, I couldn't keep my eyes open.

Speaker 3:

Can I not post a little bit of it? Like, let me post a little bit of it because it was. It was A funny looking back now at the video that we have, because I was trying to carry this interview without my co-host and I'm like she's just over there. Well let's talk about this existing.

Speaker 1:

This is lia's chair. This is my chair.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

I couldn't even get out of lia's chair.

Speaker 2:

And it is less than for everybody's looking. It's less than one feet away.

Speaker 3:

So there's that. Like you don't want to switch chairs, no, and like Endura, I find you incredibly fascinating.

Speaker 1:

But that interview I'm like don't fall asleep, don't fall asleep, don't I?

Speaker 2:

was falling asleep. Yeah, your nervous system was like oh, thank god I can rest.

Speaker 3:

You know that makes a lot of sense thought about it like that Well, I think maybe we should touch on our experience a little bit, because it was kind of like I think I was a little bit naive and thinking it was going to be more like a DMT type experience, where it was like in and out 15 20 minutes. Yes and and it didn't do exactly to me what it did to you, but After you two left, I laid down on the couch. I forgot about this. Yeah, I laid on the couch and I was just taking a break and my husband left to take one of our kids somewhere and he comes back two hours later and I'm knocked out. Yes, and he was like you've been sleeping this whole time and I was like I think I have. I think I have, like I was just laying here relaxing and like it knocked my ass out. So I was like I was not expecting that, because I was like up and doing things, but also Can you and go back to to like how she blew it in her nose?

Speaker 1:

I want, I want them to like know all of it.

Speaker 3:

Okay, Can we talk about all of it Of?

Speaker 2:

course, of course. So Of course I serve myself first and keep, please keep in mind that tobacco is a protective plant medicine. So anytime I'm of service, you will see me do hopping um, because one, I'm a highly sensitive person, so I want to protect myself as I am of service, because I don't know what may come up and out. Um, that makes a lot of sense, yes, and so I serve myself using the kareepa. It's a small tool as long end and a short end, and um, you just take a deep breath and then you blow it into your nose. There's different blows that you can indulge in when it's like the hummingbird, my namesake, so you can do like a quick blow, like and, or you can do the jaguar blow, which is.

Speaker 1:

I am so glad we didn't do that drag, damn Damn and we did the deer. Yeah, we did the deer the deer, which is so.

Speaker 2:

So, if you ever hear deer trumping through woods, they have that little light step that you can barely hear, and so that deer blow, and that's very good for that. That, that first eye opening. Um, and so I use a tool called a tepe to administer to others, and it has a skinny end and, you know, a fatter end in which I blow and I clear myself and um instruct the participant to clear themselves and set an intention. That's very important setting intentions with all plant medicines um, and then we always honor that. Left nostril first that divide feminine and then, once the participant is ready, they can go to the right and they must be balanced. Uh. So hape is a very Deer and near to my heart. I will always participate and commune with grandfather tobacco always.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, and so the experience was wild because it's After it gets, you know, blown into your nose. You can't breathe through your nose correct and, um, you salivate a lot. So we have to have a cup, and both the and I are not only spitting in the cup, but also we just have snot Running down our nose and there were times where I got a little confused because I'm like, oh, I have snot. Wipe your nose. Oh no, you need to spit. Oh gosh, I have to throw up and I couldn't even. But it's not a. It's not a hallucinogenic, no, it's not what can be?

Speaker 2:

Oh really, yeah, it can be. I've had um experiences, as so many other people.

Speaker 1:

Really Okay.

Speaker 2:

It just depends on what is needed in that moment.

Speaker 3:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

Again, plant medicine is intelligent. It is alive, and so it will do what it needs to do, based upon your vessel, your energetic bodies and what you are ready for right.

Speaker 1:

So our intention, your intention was. Oh my god my intention was to continue to move with power, but add a lot more softness.

Speaker 3:

I think do it. Yes, mine was to know my power. Yes and Can I just add to that yeah. I told her before we sat down. I had a ketamine session the next morning and my intention with that. It all came together together. It was wild because I'm like it's like how do I know that they played well together? But it's also like I just know.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, well, and it's interesting because before we did hoppe, I had just done a heroic mushroom journey and when you came over Not like the same day. No, not the same day, like the week before, we can have before. But when you came over, you brought up something about my ancestors and how I needed to get a lot of like energy out of me, and that was Literally the theme of my mushroom journey and it has been the theme of my last two mushroom journeys is connecting with my ancestors, yeah so before we met um, I asked permission from their team to delve into their energy to see what was going on.

Speaker 2:

So I decided to mention that to you.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, yeah, yeah, no. So it was, it was good, but yeah, no, it definitely cleaned us out.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, because mucous it keeps us from um community.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but I just, I just wanted you to know that I didn't Actually fall asleep during the interview. It was, it was the hoppe.

Speaker 2:

I know you weren't asleep. I was monitoring you very closely.

Speaker 3:

You're like. I promise I'm not like that all the time.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so Tell me, or tell us, how you Came into this space of plant medicine plant medicine.

Speaker 2:

So, um, I don't know how deep you want me to go. You want me to go at the beginning of my spiritual journey, or just plant medicine in general?

Speaker 1:

Oh, I mean you can do both. Okay, perfect Okay.

Speaker 2:

So, uh, around 33, around the age and that is the time when most people have their great spiritual awakening around that 33 mark, um, I had a very profound dream. Now I know it was not a dream, but at the time that's how I described it was a dream and in this dream, um, I was in this field and it was a tornado off in a distance and there was nothing but a little church there in the middle of the field. It's like a old, white, uh, lime wash church, and it looked abandoned. I said, oh, I need shelter. So I go into the church and then all of a sudden the church lights up and it's all these people I don't recognize, but they feel familiar. And then my childhood pastor was at the altar and he said, endure, come up, come up. And I was like, oh, okay. So I came up and and he opened the stained glass window at the altar and it was all of these little Tornado's Outside of the window and he looks at me and said are you ready? I was like, and then I woke up.

Speaker 1:

I was like oh, interesting, yeah.

Speaker 2:

so I uh went to go see my childhood pastor in columbus, oh hi-yo, and he hadn't seen me since I was 12 and he was like a whole little indoor.

Speaker 3:

I was like yeah, I'm big now. So this is real life, not the dream. In real life, real life real life.

Speaker 2:

So we go into his study and tell him the dream and he gets up and he looks out the window and he goes he's like your mom, she was evangelist and a prophetess. And I say, yeah, see, your grandma was a Evangelist and a preacher as well. It's like, yeah, he's like, oh, it's in your bloodline. He stood there for a moment and he says to me Are you ready? And it all of a sudden it felt like a thousand books hit the ground at one time and my soul just quickened in my body and tears just start running out my face. And I knew at that point in time that I had been called by spirit creator, god, the one, whatever you want to call that omnipotent force. And so me being an academic, I say, oh, I'm enrolled in theology school. So I went to Louisville theology school and did the tour and talked to admissions and all that good jazz. My mom was elated oh, you're finally falling to pass. And my mom is a southern Christian woman born in bread. So she was so elated that her daughter was doing all of this. And then there was in the packet that the admissions representative gave me, it was a class called Religions of the World. It's like religions of the world, and it's like, yeah, we study all the religions as part of theology school and I said that's interesting and so I looked at the book that they had and I started reading the book and it was an ongoing theme of all of the religions was Buddhist and Christian and all, and it was one common theme of love and I was like, okay, I don't need to do this. I don't need to do this, I need to know love.

Speaker 1:

Oh shit.

Speaker 2:

I need to know love, I don't need to know religion. Religion is a man made construct and so I was interested in the construct. And so, once I made that decision, I had another dream. It was not a dream, it was. I was actually actual traveling. And in this dream I was at an old plantation house and it was fields, and I saw a man in white walking up the road red road and as he became closer to the house he turned into a storm and he reached out his hand. His hand was as large as this house, so I put my little hand into his and we walk up this red road and I hear people singing and laughing and talking, but I can't see anybody. And in this field it looked like sugarcane, but it was different types of fruit I've never seen before in my life, and I said may I have some? And he said yes, and so I kept struggling to try to see this man's face, but I couldn't. Every time I looked up it was just a storm. It was lightning and thunder and clouds, and but I wasn't afraid at all. It was an overwhelming sense of peace and safety. And so I took the fruit and it looked like a pear. I wasn't choosing anything. They look weird in my dream. Growing up in a religious household, you never eat in your dream Never.

Speaker 3:

So I was like I've never heard that.

Speaker 2:

I know you never eat.

Speaker 3:

Oh, because that's how you might be eating something in real life.

Speaker 2:

No, that's how different energies and entities are invited in.

Speaker 3:

Kind of like how the snake and the fruit from the tree Correct Okay.

Speaker 1:

I don't know the Bible like y'all.

Speaker 2:

That's okay, but it's always is especially in the black community that you'll hear the elders Don't don't you ever eat in your dream. You know, somebody put the Hank on you, oh my gosh. So. But I felt, I felt safe and I bit the pear like fruit and it had bright pink flesh and it was so sweet, tastes like sugar water and I said, oh my, it's so sweet. He started laughing. It was like boy. It was just thunder and lightning. And then all the people came out big little tall, black, white, asian, young, older, and they were all dressed in white and they said we've been waiting on you. And then all of a sudden I was back at the house and my mom was there in the living room area and she was pregnant and my suit, my eldest daughter, was there and she was pregnant. And my mom said I think I'm going into labor. She starts hooping and hollering and all this other stuff. I said mom, just lay down on the couch so I deliver her baby. And then my daughter water breaks and I deliver her baby. And so then I go out on the porch and I'm like stretching and I look to my right and there is an older black woman dressed in all white and there's a stand there with crystal clear water. She says you thirsty? I said yes, ma'am. And then I hear voices say, oh, she's respectful. And she said you can go ahead and have some. And so I drink the water and I wake up. So I was like, oh, I don't know what to do with this information. So I kept on my little spiritual journey and I went to a women's retreat spiritual women's retreat and I made friends. And about a month later, after I came back from a retreat, one of the young ladies called me and she said and Dora, I want you to come to ceremony. I was like ceremony? She's like yes. I said what type of ceremony? She said just show up, just show up. And I was like okay. And so, you know, I drove to Atlanta and luckily, my spirit guides had already been working with me and I had been vegan for about a year at that point. So I wasn't worried about anything else. And she's like you know, your diet has to be clean, but I know you, you're already vegan, so you don't have to worry about the dieta. I said dieta. She's like yeah. And so when you're there, she's like guess what? I was like what? She's like we're doing ayahuasca. Have you ever heard of that? I was like I've heard of it, but I don't know what it is. She said you're going to love it. I was like, okay.

Speaker 3:

Surprise.

Speaker 1:

It's quite the surprise. Yes, ayahuasca.

Speaker 2:

So we go to this house and it's like 30 people in this house and we're all sitting on the floor. She's like I'm going to be over there. I'm like okay. She's like yeah, I need you to have your own experience. And I was like okay, and so I sat with Mother Ayah and that was a profound experience, my first experience. Do you want me to go into that?

Speaker 3:

I mean for that to be a first experience. I know a lot of people do that. It took us a minute to like get.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I was fucking terrified to that?

Speaker 2:

Oh no, I've always been an adventurous person. I was the kid that you would come home and I would be on the roof. So no it's that stuff like yeah the purging, that's nothing. I didn't even know about the purging. She's just like just bring it. She's like we're going to stop by the dollar store and get a bucket. I was like okay, she's like, well, you might throw up and you might poop and stuff. And I was like okay. You're like okay, I mean it's a human function, you throw up.

Speaker 3:

Well, it's interesting, though, because when we tell people that we did that, that's their biggest fear is pooping in front of people, and I'm like, if everyone's pooping, who cares the thing is? Or if everyone's puking, we've been conditioned to not accept the human condition.

Speaker 2:

And the human condition and that's what all plant medicines teach us is that? Guess what Surprise you're human.

Speaker 3:

And so is she, and so is he, and so are they Exactly.

Speaker 2:

So why do we make it so weird? It's very, very weird.

Speaker 3:

So true. Yeah, so my first experience, I do want to talk about that, my first experience.

Speaker 2:

So I take the cup and it was two beautiful souls there facilitating and I must honor them. At the time they went by mother Jack wire and father condor, and so it was a Jack wire in the condor and they served the medicine. And I do have to tell a little anecdotal. I see a father condor walk across the living room area before the ceremony starts and he's a white male and he has on a dashiki. I'm like wait a minute, hold up what I know. I'm from a gummy Alabama, that's my fault. I was like wait a minute, not in this African American presence.

Speaker 1:

Wait this may be done. I don't even know what that is.

Speaker 2:

A dashiki is a traditional African shirt that men wear in Africa, so as a white man, he had one on.

Speaker 1:

Oh, and you're like uh-uh, exactly, wait a minute. Yeah, are you like, appropriating Exactly.

Speaker 2:

And then I heard my higher self says you don't know his story, Sit down, Cause I was getting up. Oh, and my higher self says you don't know his story, Sit down, Interesting. And I was like, oh, okay. And so before the ceremony actually started started, they was like we're going to bless everybody with rose oil and mother Jaguar tape one half and father Corn Dora take the other half. And I was like I want mother Jaguar to be because she's a black woman and he gets my side. I'm like, so he comes to me and he says what's your name?

Speaker 3:

I said Indora.

Speaker 2:

He said I am father Condor. I said okay, and then he takes the rose oil and he blesses my first eye and I go and I look at him and I said I know you. He said I know you too. He said we'll talk later. I can't joke, we'll talk later. And so I take the drink. It tastes like people. I was wondering what does it taste like? It tastes like spoiled prune juice, like the in dirt mixed up. That's what it tastes like. That's a really good description.

Speaker 1:

I've never had prune juice because I figured you tasted like shit. So I know. Boyle prune juice I know, I can't even imagine a dash of dirt with some dirt. Dash of dirt, yes, because you got that grimy.

Speaker 3:

Yes, yeah, there's a lot of dirt in it.

Speaker 2:

Yes, but it's actually the ashes from mother Iowa. It's going to true, so that's what that dirt is yeah, I lay down, and they started playing music. Now people need to understand that the Icaros is very important for ayahuasca because she is alive. The Icaros acts as an activator and a scalpel within the ceremony for people who don't know. Icaros is the sacred song of the medicine, the sacred songs of the medicine.

Speaker 3:

Which is also why it's so important when you're doing these medicines. Like the music plays a very big role in your experience. What is enormous?

Speaker 2:

It's very important, yes, yes. So they start the Icaros and I hear a voice say lay down. I lay down. And then my intention when I was taking the medicine is I need to know godly wisdom. I don't want nothing else but godly wisdom. That's it. And all of a sudden I'm standing on this cliff and I'm watching this beautiful sunset and I hear a voice this is my godly wisdom. And then I'm transported down into a valley and there's children playing and I hear the same voice says this is my godly wisdom. And then I'm down in the ocean and I see all these creatures and dolphins and sea urchins, and I hear the voice this is my godly wisdom. And then I'm in this black room and in a mirror is in front of me this is my godly wisdom. And I scream in the ceremony, I go, what?

Speaker 3:

Oh shit.

Speaker 2:

The revelation that this, all of this, every blade of grass, every sunset, every laughter of a child, is God's wisdom.

Speaker 1:

I love that. I love that so much. I know.

Speaker 3:

I'm sorry.

Speaker 2:

So then the glass from the mirror falls away and I'm just standing in this black room and then all of a sudden, shards of glass start coming up from the floor and it comes up into a full length mirror and I see myself but not myself dancing and it's almost like, if you all remember, that Pepsi commercial that Beyonce did where she dances with different versions of herself. I moved throughout this dark room and I danced with different versions of myself. Like little kid you little kid, big me, old me, the academic me, the corporate me, the mom me, all of me, the daughter me, and I danced with myself. And then, all of a sudden, all the mirrors come into one and I wake up.

Speaker 1:

That is beautiful.

Speaker 2:

And Mother Jack War says okay, it's 2 am. I said what that's been 15 minutes, what we started at 9. She's like it's 2 am. Anybody needs a second cup.

Speaker 3:

Did you take a second cup? Of course You're like give me more of that.

Speaker 2:

Mommy raised no pun pump bitch, are you crazy Give me some more of that.

Speaker 1:

I want to go back.

Speaker 2:

So the second cup. I keep my eyes, I'm sitting up, I keep my eyes open and I'm naturally a seer, I'm spiritually a seer, so I see a lot, and so it just enhanced my seeing. And I'm looking and I see attachments on people and entities, I see ancestors, I see angels, I see deities. And then I look at the facilitators as they're singing. They're in the middle of the floor together singing, and Father Condor is playing the guitar and Mother Jack War is dancing and singing. And I look in the middle of their chest and their heart is glowing pink and I was like, oh my God, this is so beautiful. Wow, wow. And that was my first ayahuasca ceremony, the first of hundreds.

Speaker 1:

Oh my God, and how long ago was this.

Speaker 2:

This was I want to say 2018.

Speaker 1:

Okay. So how did you go from being a partaker to being a?

Speaker 2:

facilitator, a facilitator. So it was my third ceremony and I'm naturally an introvert, believe it or not, and so I kept very quiet. But being Father Condor had built a bond and he knew I was a seer for some reason he would ask me after every ceremony and Dora, what, what did you see? And then someone would come up, because when you're in ceremony you experience everybody's healing journey. And so somebody will say, oh, what am I? I'll say I saw someone's ancestor, ancestor, and they had on this, this and this and this. And then they'll interrupt me and Father Condor's conversations. Like you know, my ancestor came and they had on, and so he'll. He'll just look at me and smirk.

Speaker 3:

Cause he knew, you saw it yes.

Speaker 1:

Shit. Did you know what my ancestors were wearing? Yes, what.

Speaker 2:

Um, when Hoppe, or when I dipped into your energy, which one Both? So when I dipped into your energy, um, it was a. It was a male ancestor, very prominent. He was shirtless, he was very lean, he had his skin tone was darker than yours, he had very big almond eyes and it looked like he had on like some type of traditional, like toga type thing on the bottom. Um, it's. It reminded me of some type of Hawaiian type uh cloth, Um and um. He had a very deep voice, like very base, because when I asked may I have permission, he's like yes, and then, um, while you was my dad, and then, while you were with Hoppe, there was a woman here in this room and I asked who are you? She's like I'm her grand, her great grandmother, and she had the this long, thick, brownish black hair, but it had like streaks of white in it and she had a big, round, beautiful face, and she had on like this is it was. I don't want to say it's a kimono, it was like a robe type uh dressing, a row type dressing, and it had like this beautiful pink stitching on it and, um, and I say you can come in, and she's like no, she stood in that room the whole time while you were under Hoppe. Um, so yeah, that's what they look like. Wow, holy shit.

Speaker 3:

So wow.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

Yes, so, um, I was at a three day retreat Iowa. I was good retreat and um mother Jack why she was preparing for it was day two. She was preparing for a ceremony and I passed by her room quickly. She said endure and come here.

Speaker 3:

And I said, yes, ma'am.

Speaker 2:

And she said, um, I needed assistant, how would you like to apprentice under me? And I was like, um, I was going to ask. She's like, hmm, so this, this is the thing with um, apprenticeship with shopping is, um that you, it finds you. You don't ask for it, it finds you. And so she's like, yes, I would love to have you help me. So from that day forth, um, I was under her apprenticeship and I learned so, so, so much, how to set up ceremony Equeros, um, how to deal with entities, how to deal with, um, deal with mental health issues, um, trauma, informed, just so much. So, so, so much, so so much. And so, probably about a year later, she released me to serve high pay and your, your shaman, they release you. Or your teacher, they release you as they see fit to be of service. And she said, yes, you're ready. And so I started off serving high pay and it just escalated from there.

Speaker 1:

Wow.

Speaker 3:

I think a lot of people are not aware of what a shaman is, and I'm saying this because we had a listener reach out to me a while ago and ask if I knew any real shaman. Cause everybody wants to be a shaman and it was a very it was a very honest question and I and I appreciate that she asked me, but part of me was like, well, it's a weird word. Right now it's like a buzzword and it and it and it offend some people. And then there's this whole definition of it where I'm like, really it's, it's someone who and I could be getting this wrong. This is like my interpretation of the word when I start going down these rabbit holes, because a lot of people were offended that Steve called himself a shaman. Our ayahuasca facilitator. A shaman, by what I understand, is someone who is a healer, who sits with a medicine, who knows the medicine inside and out and who also shares the medicine.

Speaker 2:

So that's part of it. I like to use the definition of an individual who has, who is on their healing journey and allows for you to have space for yours in a safe space.

Speaker 3:

I like that definition. I like that definition Because I think some people get labeled a shaman when they don't call themselves one.

Speaker 2:

I don't. And people like endure my shaman. I'm like no, I'm just a friend. So what would you call?

Speaker 1:

yourself.

Speaker 2:

A guide. A guide.

Speaker 3:

I'm a guide. That's a little bit more palatable.

Speaker 2:

Yes, I'm just a guide. I'm just here holding your hand, cheering you on holding space.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I think this person asked me like how do you know if they're real? You?

Speaker 2:

know if they're real First, especially if you're dealing with plant medicine. They're lineage. You need to ask who. Who is their lineage? Who is their teacher? Who is their teacher's teacher? Who is their teacher's teacher, teachers. You need to ask that lineage and then also investigate that lineage and see if that lineage resonates with you. And then you need to ask have they had any training around trauma, informed facilitation? And then you need to ask whether or not ask them their journey, because you know, oh, I've been taking mushrooms since I was 16. Well, how have you been taking mushrooms?

Speaker 3:

We always question say this we do, we do.

Speaker 1:

Even someone with you and you do in ketamine. Somebody message and you and they were like oh, I, I do ketamine. I do ketamine at concerts all the time. I'm like, yes, but not completely different. The intention is very, very different.

Speaker 2:

So I relate it to so people can understand. It's different from fixing a steak at home and going to a gourmet five star restaurant. Yeah, yeah, there's a difference. Yeah, the experience. You're still getting steak.

Speaker 1:

You're still getting steak, but it's, it's a totally different experience. You're exactly right. Listen, you're still getting that juicy rib eye.

Speaker 3:

But I'm just going to. If I'm paying like 80 to $100 for a steak, I'm going to be like, like intentionally, savoring every bite of that steak, and I intentionally when I pay my money intentionally, I savored mother ayahuasca. Yes, yes, yeah, there's a. There is a difference I would like to do ayahuasca again.

Speaker 2:

You need to. I would direct. When I was looking at her, she's like she needs to do ayahuasca?

Speaker 3:

I think we both. It's. It's. Yeah, we had a very unfortunate. Our shaman passed away last year so it was a kind of like a shock. Yeah, big shock. It wasn't anticipated at all, not at all. But when we're called again to it, yeah.

Speaker 1:

So let me ask you this Let you know, I'm obviously not a shaman or, but I am a person of color and I have had certain struggles throughout my life, but I also know that I have a lot of privilege being lighter skinned and I have a lot of privilege even compared to a lot of my family members. Because of that, what has it been like being a black woman in this space?

Speaker 2:

Oh, it's been very interesting. Let's hear it. And those that know me well know when I used the word interesting, I mean fucked up, oh yeah.

Speaker 1:

Well, and and, and I guess the reason why I'm asking is because this has been a new. This is coming up psychedelics, and and and plant medicine and it's, it's um, I can see it's getting to the point where it gets so whitewashed it is.

Speaker 2:

It is, it is.

Speaker 1:

And and um, it will lose his. It will lose its uh respect, sacredness and sacredness, and I want to not be a participant that helps it go that direction. And so I guess I'd first I want to know what your experience is as a black woman in this space, because I feel like people don't know that part of it, that it is indigenous and and black and brown people were the ones who, yeah, Started this.

Speaker 2:

Um, I do want to pay homage. Let me first say I do want to pay homage to my European ancestors because they were still eating mushrooms and getting down with the get down. Getting down with the get down, they knew, yeah, they knew, they knew. So I do want to pay homage to my Irish ancestors. They knew, um, and that's coming up for me lately, my European ancestors have been knocking on my door, but for my, um, indigenous and Aboriginal background, um, it has been interesting in this space.

Speaker 1:

So fucked up.

Speaker 2:

Yes, it's been, it's been fucked up. Um, what a lot of white participants. They expect to come into the womb. They want this whole experience where there are draperies coming down from the ground or from the ceiling and these wonderful flowers and everybody is a love and light and peace and joy. And anybody that has really sat with mother ayahuasca for a long period of time knows she doesn't play that shit, she hasn't bypassed, she is the get down with the get down. And, um, if you are not ready for shadow work, this is not the plant medicine for you. This is not the plant medicine for you If you're not ready to dig deep into yourselves plural, because not only will she deal with you, she will deal with your ancestors, she will deal with the collective within you. Um, what I have found is that, um, white spaces, they Question your aptitude with the medicine, and what I mean by that is when you is, when you are Training with the medicine, your teacher teaches you how to navigate the medicine. So you're half in and half out, so you're half in this reality and you're half out of the spirit world. And they get uncomfortable with that because they are seen. I, I see you, and that scares white people. Wow, that scares white people because they have nothing to hide behind and so they are treacherous with sitting with people of color. Because we naturally Is ingrained in our DNA To naturally connect with the spirit world interesting. And so they know we're not going to just see the surface of your shadow. We're gonna see all of your shadow and that's scary for a lot of people. But understand that there's no judgment there. I'm not here to judge you. I'm here to offer space for your shadow. So either you're gonna offer it space or you're not. And you're gonna keep going through this perpetual cycle of ceremony after ceremony and the woman circle and cocoa ceremony and aesthetic dance. You're gonna keep doing it until you deal with your shit.

Speaker 3:

This is not all love and life.

Speaker 1:

And we do get a lot of messages about that, like they're they're wanting to, you know, maybe get off their antidepressant and they're thinking they're going from one thing just right to another and I'm like that's gonna be great and healing, and then what happens is they go to a ceremony and grandmother Drax them by the hair.

Speaker 2:

I don't want to do it again. Well, the guess what buttercup you should have. You should have just let your shadow fly, because she's gonna clean out the glasses and Open the doors. Yeah, and let you see all of your underwear.

Speaker 3:

So what I am seeing happening in this space of psychedelics as a whole is there are companies that are trying to Like pharmaceutical companies that are trying to remove the Synthesize. They're synthesizing the medicines to remove the hallucinogenic effects, to remove the Spirituality component, to remove the essence of it.

Speaker 1:

So you're not doing any shadow work.

Speaker 3:

Right, exactly Right. You're literally just going right back to taking a pill. You're going right back to taking a pill Every day because you just want to feel good.

Speaker 2:

You don't want, you don't want to deal with yourselves, and that is not going to work. We have done this time and time and time again.

Speaker 3:

What is that Saying it? I this sounds so stupid, but it's relevant because I saw it in John Wick and I literally googled it immediately and I'm like, okay, that would be a cool tattoo. If you want peace, prepare for war.

Speaker 2:

Shatter, shatter, shatter, shatter, shatter house house.

Speaker 3:

Like you cannot Just bypass the dark part there must be chaos.

Speaker 2:

So everybody's scared of what's going on in the world and all of spiritual people like, yes, I know, do it. Do it, yes, come storm, oh, oh. Political unrest, yes, oh.

Speaker 3:

It's hard to like sit back and watch and feel like people are like judging me for not saying anything, but I'm like, let it fall apart, please Let it fall apart. Please because it has to please, and I feel what you're saying on that, because I was literally feeling that a lot yesterday.

Speaker 2:

And I don't and please don't take it as me not having compassion for people- losing their homes, their livelihoods, things of this nature. But as a collective, we've gotten so far from pachi mama and ancestral wisdom that at this point, it's like Pachi mama has to shake shit up Shit she's. She's like you know what? The corner is not working for you guys. I got a bar soap for you. That bar soap is not working. Okay, you know what? Go to your room. Oh, you're still playing in your room. I got something for you. Yeah, you're gonna get a spanky now. And we keep doing it, and it is Even even taking the esoteric out of it. It makes no what. Look at what we're doing. It makes no sense, none whatsoever. We're destroying our home for the pursuit of what? The pursuit of happiness. And those who have had money and power will tell you happiness is not in money and power. So why do we keep perpetuating this narrative? right, make, it make sense, interesting it just blows my mind and then I'm like you know what?

Speaker 1:

I am going to continue to be a guide in hosay space for those who seek, and let the shit fall where it may so then, how can Leah and I because it's like a lot of people who are Just learning about the medicine, that's how they find us and that's how they they come to us how can leah and I show Show up better in this space?

Speaker 2:

What you're doing now is Like right now, in this right now moment, having people of color here, not just, uh, the ure European mind frame or the western mind frame of what plant medicine is um also and this may sound bad, but I think they're hard to find. They are hard to find because they've been so scarred and wounded. They, um, they, they go underground. Yeah Well, I'm again. I'm different. I'm like bring this shit on what. What do you want? What you want to deal with?

Speaker 3:

racism, let's go.

Speaker 2:

Let's go, let's deal with your privilege.

Speaker 3:

I think that is what it is Like. The people that we've talked to in this space are on the Western side of it. They're on the clinician side. They're on the like, which is easier for a lot of people to digest, because then they trust it more. And then, where we've talked about underground so many times, but nobody underground wants to talk Right. That's very true too.

Speaker 2:

Well, it's a lot of legalities that go with that, yes, but um, mother ayahuasca has taught me there's no such thing as fear, so I have fear nothing.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Um, so I I tell a lot of my clients all the time when they decide to gas us. I'll be singing medicine songs all the way.

Speaker 1:

Oh my gosh, and too, I totally forgot to say this, but when we were doing Hoppe and Leah and I are throwing our guts up. She's just like singing. It was, it was. It was nice, right, it was soothing to hear, yeah, and I kept like rubbing your leg because there was just something comforting about touching you.

Speaker 2:

I bring the mothers um. I have mother energy, so I bring all the mothers and so you feel nurtured in my everyone. Like do I feel so safe when I'm with you?

Speaker 1:

Come on baby, come on you do have a very motherly energy, even though I thought you were our age. No, I'm not.

Speaker 2:

No, you could be our mama. Yes, come.

Speaker 1:

You are our mama. We're just going to start calling you mother.

Speaker 2:

Call me whatever you want to call me, cause it's irrelevant at this point, but the the fear cause. People are afraid of going to jail, people are afraid of legal park prosecution, people are afraid of what will happen to their bodies, people are afraid of what may happen to their spirit. But I can tell you from personal experience that there is nothing to fear. Fear isn't an illusion. I know you hear it all the time, but it's so, so true. I had a one on one medicine ceremony, actually Saturday, with a gentleman came down from Nashville, a white male, and he trusts, he's like I know, he's like. When I first talked to you a year ago, I was like I know her. I was like we've done this so many times, so, so many times, so, um, and that was his second ceremony and he was like endure, I get it. Now he's like I get it. And then I'm, I'm fearing nothing. Yes, you, yes, she's like, he's like this is so stupid. Exactly, he was like I feel so free. Oh my God. So I love those aha moments when you let go of fear, of what you're, what you, what we've been conditioned to fear death, jail, taxes, feelings, yeah, feelings, emotions feel all the feelings.

Speaker 3:

So that's interesting because I feel like, uh, I was having this conversation with yesterday about it, about I was going into a little bit about my ketamine treatment and I don't want to go into that in this episode, but just the simplicity of the message, the simplicity of it had so much impact that it was like, oh my God, Duh.

Speaker 1:

Oftentimes a lot of those simple messages. They're the most profound, though. Spirit is simple. There's this because it's about love, or yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3:

It's so wild, though, because I think our conditioning has really kept us from understanding the value of these things. They're overused, the words are overused, they're overplayed, like love and light, like what does that even mean? How do you know what it means until you felt it? Until you feel it, until you feel it, you don't know, you don't know.

Speaker 2:

You don't know what self-love is.

Speaker 1:

But you gotta touch the dark though you really really feel like and get the love and light you do. And people don't want to touch the dark. They don't. Yeah, they don't.

Speaker 2:

I'm going to tell you another the darkness. They came. We were sitting in ceremony and I called SuperSimonSoul, uncle Sal came on in and Uncle Sal and I was eyes wide open in front of me. I saw a DNA strand and I was like, oh my God, it's so beautiful. And I heard him say that's your DNA. And I was like, oh, wow, gorgeous. And then I was looking closely and there was a dark spot in my DNA and I said what is that Dead silence? And I said, okay, I guess it's not time for me to know yet. So the next ceremony I was sitting with grandmother Iowa's gun and I'm sitting there taking. I had took the medicine and they're up singing and the eclips and I hear mother Iowa's gun say are you ready to see the darkness? And I said yes, and she laughed. And then I'm looking straight ahead and mother Jaguar is singing in front of me and I guess she felt the energy coming and she steps to the side abruptly and then this grow tests being entity starts walking towards me. It looked like. Only the way I can describe it is like a burnt booger with eyes.

Speaker 1:

A burnt booger with eyes.

Speaker 2:

Like many eyes, and it's stunk Like it was. It's stunk awful, I could smell it and it started coming towards me and like this rage, and I said, I said grandmother. I said what is this rage? She says it's your rage, oh shit. And I said okay, and I said what's behind the rage? And she laughs, she says smart girl. And then the booger falls away and I see my indigenous ancestor weeping, moaning, crying, wailing, and I see all these burnt TPs and huts and she's just wailing in the dirt and she's and she's just what I mean, just tears coming from. And I just start wailing with her just wailing and crying, rocking. I'm like, oh my, this is embedded in my DNA. People don't want to face that part. So you're wondering why you're so angry all the time. My life is wonderful. I have a beautiful home, I have a loving spouse, my job is awesome, but I'm angry.

Speaker 3:

Why are you so mad?

Speaker 2:

Why? Why are you so upset? Why are you so nasty to people? The lady at Walgreens. Why? Why? Because it's embedded in that DNA and until you rope, reprogram that DNA and face it because that's the first part is facing it, recognizing that it's- where most people just push it down, push it down. I'm not angry, I'm upset because you know, right, right.

Speaker 3:

Right, right.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

They got to touch it, though. You got to touch it, you got to taste it, you got to smell it. I was engrossed in it. You have to feel it. Feel it, feel it. And the interesting thing is, after the ceremony we always do the integration circle and it was like six people in it. Then somebody said I got to say this Whose demon was in the middle of the floor? Was in the middle of the floor and I was like my his booger demon was that.

Speaker 1:

My bad, you guys. So exactly my bad, sorry.

Speaker 3:

I took care of it, took care of it. Yeah, we're besties.

Speaker 2:

Now it's settled, this booger is good, but that just shows you the beauty of sail. Everybody is seeing your shit. Yeah, yeah. So you can't hide from it.

Speaker 3:

You can't hide. Oh my God, what would?

Speaker 1:

be your biggest advice to somebody who is a listener, who has not even touched any of this stuff, but is just very, very curious about plant medicine or psychedelics.

Speaker 2:

I would tell them first start with shadow work, and that is journaling. I know it sounds very plain, but I always tell people that too. Yeah, start with expressing your true feelings in a safe space and most people don't feel safe with their spouse or with their loved ones or friends, and not even with the therapist, because they're scared of judgment and that piece of paper is not going to judge you. And then, once you, once you express that, I want you to put it down for about a week or so, and then I want you to go back and reread what you wrote and then ask yourself why did I feel that way? Why Keep asking why, why, why was I upset with my mother when she called me and she said that one phrase? Why? Because it reminded me when I was eight years old and she said that what happened with? Why did you feel that way at eight? Because I didn't feel heard or seen. Why don't you feel heard and seen? Keep going to the why and then, once you face your why, then allow plant medicine to assist you in the why.

Speaker 3:

I don't think that there's enough curiosity with everything we just talking about this episode we drop maybe today or maybe it was another conversation. I'm like mixing up my conversations here, but it's like the. It's not the why. That's the aha moment. Do you remember who we had that conversation with? That's not the always the answer. The answer isn't always the aha. No, the answer is not the aha. You gotta dig deeper. I think it was a podcast I was listening to, so never mind.

Speaker 1:

You have no idea what the fuck I'm talking about. I'm so fucking confused, sorry.

Speaker 3:

But I just I find it interesting because, like a year ago, like I remember having these conversations with my husband when he was angry, and I would be like why are you angry? He's like what are you talking about? He was so triggered that I would ask him that. And then I'm like explaining the feelings wheel and I'm like telling him all these things that lie under anger, there's disappointment, there's sadness, there's rejection. There's so many feelings under that anger, so I start going through it. Do you feel this? No, do you feel this? Yes, okay, why do you feel that? Why do you feel that? And he was like mad at first. He felt therapist, therapized. Is that a word?

Speaker 2:

You just made it up, perf. He felt that way.

Speaker 3:

And then we go to therapy a few weeks after that and the therapist is like why are you so angry? What's underneath that? And I look at him and he looks at me and he's like oh, my fucking God. Like see, like you got to go deeper, Like what I got to do, it's with everything. It's with everything it is literally with everything. You're sad. Why are you sad? What's under that Exactly?

Speaker 1:

But even just how we live just how we live.

Speaker 3:

How we live.

Speaker 1:

It's, it's even, you know, let's say, people drinking, but then people being triggered that we talk about mushrooms. Why so triggering? Why, why, why you can't even have a conversation. Nowadays you can't have a conversation and I used to be this person. I used to be that angry person where I just saw things as very black and white and so if you don't agree with or think how I think, then you're just wrong. Where I've really learned to come into a space of, like, getting more curious and why I feel so strongly about certain things. And then I realized I didn't really feel strongly about it, I was just angry and so I just projected it.

Speaker 3:

I think a huge flex is being curious.

Speaker 1:

It's the, it's the biggest flex, and it's like we can't even have hard conversations anymore because it's people are so in their bubble they can't like, they can't take a step back and be like, oh, tell me more about that, or I'm really curious, or you know, and I just I think that is really kind of the sign of intelligence, being curious, you know, and they program us.

Speaker 2:

Curiosity killed the cat.

Speaker 3:

That's not, not not even the full thing. It's curiosity killed the cat, but knowledge brought it back.

Speaker 2:

Exactly so is they just feed us just enough. Just enough to fuck with our programming Right, and then we ingest that into our DNA, and then now it's intertwined into all of our vessels, and that's what it is. Dig deeper, question Everything. Everything I say everything, Everything. I went to the grocery store. I was only picking up a couple items. I spent two hours in the grocery store because I was like what is this meta next year? And what's going on?

Speaker 3:

What is this what?

Speaker 2:

is this?

Speaker 1:

This is not what is it Right Shit that's illegal in other countries.

Speaker 2:

So I'm a question. Everything Like is this healthy for me? Do I feel safe here? I wonder why my mother said that. I wonder why my father did that.

Speaker 1:

I wonder why do I get so triggered about this little thing? What little thing? Why?

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Just why do not, why do I not want to touch this parts of myself that maybe I feel shame or embarrassed man or whatever. Whatever?

Speaker 2:

it is yeah.

Speaker 3:

I joke that my 11 year old never grew out of that Y phase. You know when, like, kids are like toddlers they're three and they're four and they're asking why, why, why, why, why he never grew out of it. He's a one three generator, so so he's like the knowledge seeker he's the investigator and now, like it's hard as a mom because he questions everything, I say I need you to brush your teeth why oh my God, we've had this conversation before but why, you know, like things like that. As a mother it's difficult, but as a human being, I'm like. I love that you question everything, I love that you question authority, I love that you question rules, I love that you question everything around you. I don't like it when you question me because I'm your mom, but I also don't want him to stop asking why, because I think that it's going to be his best friend, it is, it is my mom and all her.

Speaker 2:

If it it wisdom. I was a Y child as well, you're a Y child, and so she bought encyclopedias and I read every single one of them. Wow, because I need to know the why. What is happening? Why? Oh, this is the theory that they have, I wonder is that true? Let me go outside and do a little eight year old experiment. Let me see if it's really burned under a microscope. That is.

Speaker 3:

Austin.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's my child, I know why and so I'm not afraid. And we were talking about being a psychonaut. So that is, I was a little I'm little trepidation on that term, but that's why I am a psychonaut, because I'm not afraid to go into different dimensions and rims and see all the things that need to be seen and commune.

Speaker 1:

Sir, are we psychonauts?

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

Because we explore our mind. Yes, Well, we're like hop it yeah.

Speaker 2:

Sure, let's see what happens Exactly. Let's see what happens. I mean, they, our ancestors, been doing it millions of years, and we're here so it got to be safe. Y'all think about it. Well, I don't know what's in the ayahuasca. What if you get it from an indigenous supplier? You know exactly what's in it.

Speaker 1:

Well, and do you know what's in your pharmaceutical?

Speaker 2:

drug. They don't know, they don't know what's in the Swiss world, but guess, I guarantee you, they scarfing it down. Yeah, scarfing it down. Make it make sense, people make it, and this is expanding your humanity, it's expanding yourself.

Speaker 1:

But I think people can't see past the world that we live in currently and again, that goes back to getting curious and going into the whys of things because they're like, unless they like, unless they've experienced it, it doesn't exist. And I'm like, well, listen, we've been around for a super fucking long time, yeah so, and we've been around for a lot longer than like a pharmaceutical drug.

Speaker 3:

So but also, if you want to save the world, save yourself.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, shada shada, shada, shada. Shada is a Yawa. Now word means great and many things, so you'll hear me say that. How do you say it? Shada shada, shada shada.

Speaker 3:

I'm thinking it was like this, like, but it is like a word for this Shada, shada, yas, yas, but. Shada, shada.

Speaker 1:

So Endora, you're local.

Speaker 2:

Yes, You're in a little Kentucky. Yes, how can?

Speaker 1:

people find you.

Speaker 2:

You can find me. I shut my website down due to spirits direction.

Speaker 1:

Oh, yeah, that's right?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I did, because people, let's say, let's see, how can I say this? People were not taking their spiritual journey seriously. They want to dib a dab, and there are people for that. There are people for that. But I'm of the spiritual guide, of I am here to guide you and I need movement. I'm not going to be your cheerleader while you're standing in the same place Sorry, I'm taking notes, literally I am not going to be. I'm not that guide for you. There are plenty of other guides. I can refer you to someone who does not mind that. However, I am in a different place in time right now and we are a post the Great Awakening, and so no longer time for games, because I do carry that mother spirit is chop, chop. Let's go. So they can find me at my Instagram, at natural knows, or you can email me at the natural knows, and that's no like knowledge knows at gmailcom.

Speaker 3:

I think we need to see her today. I think so too. We have, yeah, this whole. Like you're, you want people who are ready to jump off the deep end.

Speaker 1:

Yes, and we've we've been struggling with that a little bit because we setting the boundaries like setting boundaries. We have people reach out to us and sometimes it's like oh, I don't know if they're ready for the work, and we want people who want to do the work. They're willing to do the work.

Speaker 2:

And your spirit man knows. So it's that my discretion, and I've turned people way. I've told them no thank you and refunded them. I don't, I play no games. We are here to bring forth new earth. I will see it. I will be a old lady when I see it, because spirit already told me I'll be 96 when I pass.

Speaker 1:

Oh damn. So you got a lot of life to live.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so I will see the beginning of new earth and I'm here to assist in that mission.

Speaker 3:

So thank, you for your cause and contribution.

Speaker 2:

You better, you better. Thank spirit, thank you spirit.

Speaker 3:

You better, thank you, you better, thank you. Shout a, shout, shout a shout.

Speaker 1:

Shout, a shout.

Speaker 3:

Y'all do the look.

Speaker 1:

Yo shout a shout, Shout a shout.

Speaker 3:

That was a good closing. I'm gonna be honest, like I don't even know how we taught that, because no, thank you. And for listeners, stay curious, be open and we'll see you on the other side.

Speaker 2:

So you're on the other side, I'll be there. Bye Y'all.

Exploring the Benefits of Hapé Ceremony
Spiritual Awakening and Calling
First Ayahuasca Experience, Becoming Facilitator
Challenges of Black Women in Plant Medicine
Exploring Shadow Work and Plant Medicine
Exploring Curiosity and Seeking Deeper Understanding
Bringing Forth the New Earth