See You On The Other Side

61 | Let's Chat...While We Balance Life, Self-Care, and Harm Reduction

August 28, 2023 Leah & Christine Season 2 Episode 61
See You On The Other Side
61 | Let's Chat...While We Balance Life, Self-Care, and Harm Reduction
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Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Have you ever felt the overwhelming pressure of managing multiple commitments? Yeah...same.  Let's chat about our self-care while also navigating the growth of our podcast, juggling our own healing journeys, and family responsibilities all at once. As we celebrate milestones, and are grateful for our community, we also wrestle with the challenges that come with this growth and the pressure to keep up.

First and foremost, while we speak on modalities that are still stigmatized, we feel like we have a responsibility to our listeners to provide harm reduction. We've all made decisions we later regret, especially when it comes to substance use. But what if you had the tools and the friends to help you make informed decisions? We share our personal experiences and emphasize the necessity of understanding the risks involved. We also offer resources on our website for individuals interested in these practices, highlighting the need for education and the potential dangers of uninformed engagement.

Every person is unique in their approach to helping others, and it's no different for us. We discuss our distinct ways of aiding others and how these methods can come together to provide comprehensive support. From being direct, to exploring feelings, verbal communication takes precedence over DMs. We also touch on the importance of self-awareness and knowing when to take a break. After all, you can't pour from an empty cup. So, join us on this candid conversation as we unfold our personal struggles and triumphs in this journey of growth and self-discovery, and how we want to continue to show up in this space.

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Speaker 1:

Hey, shroomies and those that are curious, we have got an interesting episode for you all today, something that has been weighing heavy on our hearts that we want to share with you guys.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I think it's time we show up.

Speaker 1:

Sorry, I just got the Rafiki, the baboon, from Lion King. Yes, it is time. Okay, sorry, go ahead.

Speaker 2:

Squirrel. We just did that thing where it's like, and then they laugh and then they just okay, this is a whim of an episode and there are several reasons why it's been a long time coming, and we want to try to keep this short and sweet, like Christine. You're full of them today, oh my God, it's the kind of me. Are you funny? I am funny, but we know that that's like usually not how our MO is, like we're going to fuck this up and it's going to be an hour and a half.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, the goal is like 30 minutes, but see you still. Yeah, we'll still be talking.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we will. Okay, Anyways. So we want to go over a few things. First off, maybe I should explain that I did ketamine last week, and why. Because this has been something I've been wanting to do for several months and there's a reason. And I'm not going to talk about our journey today, my journey.

Speaker 1:

Well, yeah, because you've only done one dose so far.

Speaker 2:

Out of like six Right. So you want to experience more, to be able to talk about it fully and also be able to kind of process it a little bit yeah, yeah, and I'm going to be honest and I said this in the first thing that I posted, like I've had some things going on that I haven't shared.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I forgot, you said that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and and haven't talked about it. I haven't really opened up about it, and I think we should open up about it because it hasn't just been with me, it's been with both of us.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

So my intention going into this ketamine treatment was to help relieve some pressure, because we've been in this space for a year and a half now and we've grown so quickly in such a short amount of time, like the same thing quickly and short amount of time, so much in such a short amount of time, yeah, um, that it was starting to overwhelm us me, us, both of us. You could say us Okay, I'm going to speak for you. I hate when I do that because I get in my head about it. But we were also like trying to post at certain times and post a certain amount of times and have substance in the posts and like have like content surrounding our episodes. And it's just the two of us, so it felt like a lot.

Speaker 1:

Because the other thing is that, um Leah, you just recently retired from what you were doing before.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Um, and I have cut back a lot, but I'm still have another job that I'm doing. So for a year and a half we have been doing this in our free time, while on top of working and being moms and on top of being moms, Um, and also on top of healing. And you owned a business and I used to own a business and part of the problem with us owning a business where we really struggled to the point where we were not only mentally struggling, we were getting I was getting physically sick, it was taking a toll on us emotionally, it was taking a toll on our families and we took a step back and we started this healing journey to set firmer boundaries and and and learn how to fill our own cup. And that's that's literally why we started this right, Because we wanted to just authentically and and be raw about our healing journeys and what we've done and that has helped us and the tools that we have, and we wanted to share those tools with you.

Speaker 2:

God, this sounds like a breakup podcast. It's not. I know it's not. We want to be more intimate.

Speaker 1:

We're like Ross and Rachel's it was. We're just on break. No, I'm just kidding.

Speaker 2:

But you're right. And so, like this summer, especially like our kids have been out of school, and because I was retired, we didn't put my kids in summer camps and I was home with them all summer. And then my husband is on top of his job starting law school, and so there's just a lot of that stuff and happening If you do not live in Louisville.

Speaker 1:

There has been a shitstorm with the school system here and starting the school, and so I've struggled with childcare.

Speaker 2:

We made national news.

Speaker 1:

We did make national news. So we got from Louisville, we made national news, but in like not a good way, which is most news.

Speaker 2:

So yeah, because some kids on the first day of school weren't coming home until like 10 o'clock off the bus.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, our bus system is 10 o'clock PM.

Speaker 2:

Yeah so.

Speaker 1:

But yes, so school was supposed to start for my child today. That did not happen. We don't know when it's going to happen. I think we do, but it's not for sure. But it's, there's just a lot happening and I it's a lot. But on top of that we have, we really love the community we have built and we are so proud of it. I am so proud of it. But we get a lot of comments and we get a lot of DMs and the way that we are wired.

Speaker 2:

We are like we have to respond to all of them, we have to message everybody back, we have to answer these questions. And we just hit 10 K on Tik Tok this week. Yes, we did, but with so exciting, but with that, with the viralness, with that, comes hundreds of comments on one post and hundreds of DMs and hundreds of ads. It's becoming a lot to keep up with. And it's just the two of us and we're like this is going to get worse, not worse. It's going to get. There's going to be more of this. We're just scratching the surface of how much more this is going to be.

Speaker 1:

Here's the other thing too, because our partners I think they do get it they don't relate to it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Our gifts, I think, are very different in how we show up in the world, and I think for Leah and I, we were talking earlier about the fact that you know the environment that we grew up in and also, on top of being very, very sensitive and having a lot of big feelings and being empaths, we have this gift where I think, we make people feel very, very safe and people and I love that and we make people feel seen and heard. And heard, and so we want, in this psychedelic space, we want to be safe space for everybody. It's just right now. We're having a lot of deep conversations with a lot of different people, while trying to continue on with this, while trying to be moms, while trying to be, you know, great partners and spend quality time with our family and with our friends and not lose our shit.

Speaker 2:

And we don't know how to not do that, though.

Speaker 1:

Right, but I guess what I'm trying to say is we show up for people in a really, really big way. Yes, In a very oftentimes heavy, deep conversations, because I don't know how to do surface level stuff. Yeah. So it is like when I meet people it goes deep, usually really, really quick, and that's great. It can be very, very exhausting, though, if we don't have breaks or we don't have boundaries with it, Because I don't know where it ends or how to like. I want to respond to every message. I want to respond to every comment. I want to help everyone with harm reduction.

Speaker 2:

That's what I mean Like I don't know how to not do that. And even this morning, when we were chatting about it, like my husband was like just don't respond to people, like he's so, like, matter of fact, like done, that's what Tony says, that's the solution. You don't have to respond to every person, but like, but he's wired differently. He's wired differently and I don't want to not show up for people.

Speaker 1:

Well, also, we are talking about very serious matters and we are talking about substances that needs to be, that need to be used in a way to have the best possible outcome. We want people to have experiences like what we have had, and we want people to thrive and we want people to then, you know, heal and then heal their little circle. Yeah, their little circle of people and continue with that. And I think that's what we have realized our role is in this space. Where we struggle is kind of how to, how to, how to turn it off.

Speaker 2:

Well, so we came up with a solution.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

Um, we've hinted about this before and it's kind of been something that we've been under the surface, working on and talking about for so freaking long, and it's starting to get to the point where it's like no, this has to happen, like this has to happen, and it has to happen soon.

Speaker 1:

For us to be able to continue to do this.

Speaker 2:

Exactly Like for us to continue to show up and for us to feel like it's not this never ending pressure, Because it's not. It's not anything we love when you guys reach out to us.

Speaker 1:

Yes, I don't want people to take offense to that.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 1:

Because we still want that to happen.

Speaker 2:

Exactly, and there are just some of the time. Some of the conversations end up happening over days and days, and days and we are helping people find therapists or source things, or do we do them, helping them, helping them find a friend who can guide them, or like talking them through micro dosing. So there's a lot of important conversations that we still want to continue to have.

Speaker 1:

Here's the other thing. It's hard to have those conversations through a comment and through a DM? Yes, because they are very lengthy. It is not black and white.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

You know, and it's why we created this space and have many, many, many episodes talking about the stuff.

Speaker 2:

Right. So I want to talk about harm reduction a little bit, because I feel like we've been doing it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think that's kind of our role.

Speaker 2:

We've been doing this harm reduction type thing. Indiums under the radar through texting, but harm reduction is literally just like can I read the definition?

Speaker 1:

Read the definition Harm reduction is a pragmatic approach that acknowledges and addresses the realities of substance use, reducing the overall harm to individuals and communities through education, accessible resources and non-judgmental support.

Speaker 2:

So basically it's like we know you guys are going to do this. It happens all the time. How many DMs have we had where somebody is like I heard your episode and I'm going to go and do it and I'm we're like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. So it feels like we're talking people off of ledges in our DMs sometimes or like I'm going to go into five grams this weekend. Hold up. Do you have support at home? Are you on many medications? What we're doing is harm reduction, because we know that not everybody has access to retreats in another country or clinical trials or the legal routes or guides who are in their community. They don't know where to access people like this. But we've done a lot of the work behind the scenes of helping people access this in a safe way. We've done a lot of harm reduction. We've done a lot of good. We like doing that. But it's like, if you're going to do it anyway, like I think it's important that you have people to talk to who can help point you in the right direction or get you started. Whether they are the ones guiding you, whether they are the ones helping you find someone local, whether they are the ones sending you all the websites and the rabbit holes that you need to find it on your own. We're not stupid. We know you're going to do it anyway. We just want you to be safe and smart.

Speaker 1:

And we have heard, you know, kind of like what Leah said, talking to people off a cliff. We've heard a lot of horror stories. So first it was oh, you guys are talking about mushrooms. I did that, had a really bad time, had a bad trip, and you know, again we've talked about this where we're like okay, well, how much did you do? Where were you at? Okay, you took five grams and then went to a concert, like you didn't. You didn't use the medicine with respect, and we want people to have the best experience as possible, because these, these are medicines and they're sacred and they are to be done with respect, and we want to, like, inform you of that. The other thing is, you know, there are people who go the clinical route, there are people who go the underground route, and both routes we've heard horror stories where they maybe trusted a guide or a clinician and that wasn't a good experience for them, but they didn't know anything else, so they weren't able to advocate for themselves, and I hate hearing stories about that because, especially in this space, that should not be happening. It's the reality of it, but it is.

Speaker 2:

It is, it is happening and it is the reality, and this is even here in Louisville, like no, even just this week we have heard some really negative things about a clinical setting here in Louisville and we've heard really negative things about an underground route here in Louisville. And it's just, it's one of the things we want to talk about is like advocating for yourself and knowing what's right and what's wrong. And if we're not talking about the right experiences and what it looks like to be safe, then how do you know? How would you know? You wouldn't know, Like, and if I hadn't posted my stories about my ketamine experience, this person wouldn't have known that they were not in a safe space. You know what I mean and I think we want to do more of that type of stuff where we're like showing you more of the process and the raw part of it.

Speaker 1:

But what is the next slide on that say, so harm reduction is grounded in justice and human rights. It focuses on positive change and working with people without judgment, coercion, discrimination or requiring that people stop using drugs as a precondition of support.

Speaker 2:

So that's kind of been our focus, that we've been doing for free For a long time.

Speaker 1:

There you go, right to the point. Here we go, it's been.

Speaker 2:

It's a job. It's like a full time job on top of us doing other things.

Speaker 1:

It's required a lot of emotional bandwidth from the both of us to put this much time to try to make sure everyone is doing it really safely, because we we want you guys to to thrive with it and we I can't, I can't, not respond.

Speaker 2:

That's why we feel like it's our duty to respond yeah.

Speaker 1:

We have come up with a solution, and that solution is that people can book calls with us, because we realize it's really you know how, in texts, like when you're texting a friend. Yeah, something can be like taken out of context or like it could be a 20 minute conversation, but in text it takes five days.

Speaker 2:

Mm, hmm, yeah, because I'm also. I also don't want to be on my phone, that's 24.

Speaker 1:

So that's the other thing we've been struggling with. It is, you know, we come and we record and we do the work, and so when we're responding to comments, when we're responding to DMs, it's cutting and-.

Speaker 2:

It's our free time, it's cutting in our free time. Cause we have a schedule, even though this isn't like a job for us like we have a schedule, but we treat it like a job. We treat it like a job, like we're like we don't do anything on Wednesdays, cause that's when we record and Mondays is when we meet and we go over what we need to be doing for the next week and our schedules and our guests. So, like this is Mondays and Wednesdays Outside of that, like we have other stuff happening. But yeah, I found myself like on my phone All the time, all the time. And you're exactly, I didn't even think about that part of it. It's like I'm having conversations with people that could literally be a phone call in 20 minutes, 30 minutes, done.

Speaker 1:

And I'll be honest, it's given me so much anxiety.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I had to do ketamine because of it.

Speaker 1:

Well, here's the other thing, mercury is in the microwave right now and so. I actually had a meltdown this morning about all of it. But and I know we're taking the steps to you know, come to a happy medium where we're still caring for you guys and giving you guys support, but we're also caring for ourselves too, and you know, it's just a balance that we're probably going to always struggle with.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, Because I'm sure Well, and we do as much as we can Like, I'm like okay, I'm in the Instagram DMs right now but also we've got these three posts on TikTok that are going viral and people are asking me questions, and so let me answer these and you do these, and it's just a lot of like, back and forth and figuring out. So the thing that you felt this morning, the meltdown like it's the last few days have been like a lot of support and we've been talking about these calls for a while. Yes.

Speaker 1:

And I know that there's a lot at the end of the tunnel.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

But I've just kind of hit a point where I'm like I can't, I can't keep showing up, keep showing up in this way that people are expecting me to, and I feel guilt about it, but I have to do. I have to be able to show up in a way that also works for us.

Speaker 2:

So the thing on there that says accessible resources. I want to touch on that for a minute, because one of the things that I did a couple of weeks ago when I had the bandwidth to do it- here's the other thing I'm a projector, leah's a manifester.

Speaker 1:

We are not manifesting generators or generators.

Speaker 2:

We're not the doers.

Speaker 1:

We are not the doers. But, we're doing it all. But we're doing it all and we're really, we're really struggling with it. But our bread and butter is the fact that, like, we just kind of show up and can talk to people and can kind of lead them in a direction and we're just a safe space. Yes, so, and we don't claim to know everything Right, so if we don't, know we'll send you to someone who does Exactly so.

Speaker 2:

The resource thing, though, is huge, because I made a resource page on our website, and it has like all the like I had. I used to like tell people what to watch, like when they would like reach out and say, like where should I start, like what should I watch, and I would literally like I had a copy paste text in my notes and I would add things to it, and so now it's on our website. Now you can go to our website. There's shows and documentaries to watch, there are books to read that we have read, and there are websites and resources at the bottom of it. Another thing, people ask us a lot, like about the music that we listen to. I made a Spotify and I have all of our playlists on there, so there's like a hundred. Sorry, I like choices in that sense, but there's like MDMA playlist and mushroom and acid and ketamine playlist, and like there's playlist for everything.

Speaker 1:

You're so extra.

Speaker 2:

But honestly it's so good, it's like. So, instead of DMing us for that type of stuff like you have, we're giving them to you.

Speaker 1:

These types of stuff like it's on our website, it's on our Spotify, it's on our link tree we're giving you resources, but the calls so you know, we have people who they say I have a friend and I feel comfortable and I feel safe with them and so I would rather them guide me.

Speaker 2:

How do I do that?

Speaker 1:

How do I do that? Well, that is not a two sentence answer, Susan. We need to book a call. It's very in depth because and I wanna explain why has your friend used done the medicine? We've had people who they have not listened to what we have said. They did it with somebody who sat with some, or someone sat for them who had never used the medicine.

Speaker 2:

They did it in a public place.

Speaker 1:

They did it in a public place and they did way too much.

Speaker 2:

And then, after they literally said I shouldn't have done that. And I should have listened and I should have listened to you Like.

Speaker 1:

I don't just say this stuff to say this stuff.

Speaker 2:

So it almost feels like a waste of our knowledge and our time.

Speaker 1:

Well, and I think, going back to like the text thing, I think it's hard to maybe relay that message.

Speaker 2:

Of the importance of it.

Speaker 1:

DM, you're right, and I want, like in a phone call, I can be like listen, sally, I need you to get your notebook and take some notes.

Speaker 2:

I don't recommend VODs.

Speaker 1:

Right, right, yeah, I think you know cause. It's like we don't know your support. If the person is guiding you, have they used the medicine? Are you going to therapy? Like, what tools do you have in your toolbox right now? Right, Are you going to integrate?

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 1:

What's your intention? Do you know about intention? How much are you taking Like? These are very in-depth questions that we need to know and a lot of times people will ask us just like this one sentence question.

Speaker 2:

I'm like there's so much context that we need to understand, to know that if what your situation is Right right and that's why I remember that one time we got a DM and she was just like I found the mushrooms, now what. I think that's why our Instagram got shut down, because then she like commented and said the same thing in a public post as a comment and it wasn't in our DMs and I was like don't be, like, I know, don't be saying that and out there in the open, like I found the mushrooms, now what, Right right, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

And people don't know. And that's okay, but we got to do a call then to really talk about it. Because we take this very serious yeah yeah, Well, and I just I don't want to see more horror stories.

Speaker 2:

And again.

Speaker 1:

I also want to continue to stress, stress, stress, stress the sacredness of this medicine and the respect that the user has to have when ingesting and the accountability. Yes, there has to be. There has to be. This is not a magic pill, this is not, you know and you know. The other thing, too is we get a lot of messages Okay, just weaned off my SSRIs ready for her journey. That's not, also not a black and white conversation, because it never is. Right, but because it is. There are people who they they get off their SSRIs and they want to go right to the next thing. There's a lot of things that can happen when going off your SSRIs. I know people who have physical withdrawals, emotional withdrawals. A lot of feelings come up to the surface that have been suppressed for a long time. People don't know what to do with it. Well, guess what If you do?

Speaker 2:

a herald dose. You're really not going to know what the fuck to do.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, your feelings are everything that is. Your shadow is going to come out.

Speaker 2:

You're not going to know what to do with it.

Speaker 1:

And you're not going to know what to do with it. So a herald journey may not be the right option. Microdosing may be a better option for you.

Speaker 2:

I wish I had said this in our last episode about I love this analogy and I use this a lot with people. I recently just used this with a friend who I kind of talked out of, like doing a heroic journey, and she's going to start microdosing instead because she's coming off of meds slowly. I'm like I don't think you should jump right into this, but the analogy I use and I've used this with you too and I'm like fucking love it. Like we are emotionally constipated, ooh, and if we are emotionally constipated and we've been suppressing and ignoring and drinking away or numbing away our emotions or medicating them to a point that they're like just background noise, when you come off of meds, like they're going to start leaking out like leaky gut, yeah, you're going to get some fucking diarrhea. Yeah, you're going to have a little bit of diarrhea and that's not fun. Who wants diarrhea? Nobody wants diarrhea. But you think that that's what? Okay, hold on. So microdosing is like a stool softener.

Speaker 1:

Ooh.

Speaker 2:

So it's not so uncomfortable because you've been backed up for a long time and if that's like rock hard and coming out like it's not comfy.

Speaker 1:

I love that we're using poop as an analogy for this.

Speaker 2:

I know you're going to get bloody butthole, but a heroic journey after being emotionally constipated is like a full blown fucking laxative.

Speaker 1:

That's like food poisoning. You're like fucking shit in out your ass and your mouth.

Speaker 2:

Right, so maybe take a stool softener first. Yeah, I love that so bad, but think about it Like when you've been taking medication for that long and you've been like pushing emotions down and they start coming up. It's going to be uncomfortable in the beginning. Why would you jump off the deep end and make it worse? Yeah, so there's never a black and white answer to any of these questions that people are asking us, so a conversation is almost a must.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and so we say too, because people want like good, bad, black, white. And I say the medicine isn't good or bad, it's powerful, it depends what you do with it, because you are the medicine.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 1:

I can't stress this enough. The other I just had this epiphany too. So when you were talking about your ketamine experience and the intention with it and how I, just a couple episodes ago, talked about my journey and my ancestors showed up and it was like okay, you have this power, what are you going to do with it?

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And it was. I thought that, and I still do think that where I'm showing up, but showing up in a softer way yeah, I also have this realization just now where, yes, I have this power, but that's also really sacred too, and I can't just give it away. Right, like I gotta keep a little bit of some for myself. So it's people who do these phone calls. We also know that they're really serious about the advice that we're giving. Yeah, because there have been people who have blatantly just not listened to us and it's been a little frustrating, I'll be honest. Yeah, because it's almost like the medicine if you don't have respect and you don't take it seriously, it's going to spank you on the butt.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it bites it back, it bites back.

Speaker 1:

And we can't stress this enough, and so I think, taking the time to really talk to us and so we can explain and you can hear not only what you're doing but why you're doing it, because it matters, we're not just saying this stuff to say this stuff.

Speaker 2:

No, I just thought of another example too, because I remember in the beginning, someone reached out and they were like I'm going to do a journey this weekend, I'm going to do this much. And I'm like, oh, okay, who's guiding you? No one, you're going to do that alone. Yeah, I can do it and I. This was like a year ago. So I felt like who am I to tell this person they shouldn't do that or they're not ready? I know them, but I don't know them that well. And afterwards, like I checked in on her, like how did it go? And it was like, yeah, I shouldn't have done that alone. And I'm like, oh, I should have said that, but I didn't want, like in the beginning. And this is where, like we're, we're this, this grows.

Speaker 1:

We're not. We're not the experts, but we learned a lot.

Speaker 2:

This journey that we've gone on has really empowered me to be like no, you do know what you're talking about and you do have this information and it is like it's. It's I don't want to say powerful, that's not the word I'm trying to use. It's important and you can say these things because you've experienced them and you know what's good and you know what's bad, and you know what's wrong and you know what's right and you know what's going to help them have a better experience.

Speaker 1:

And you and I have enough awareness where, if we don't, we'll connect them to someone who does Right, because we don't know everything.

Speaker 2:

We are not the clinicians and we're not, you know. I'm also thinking about this in my other job, because I waxed eyebrows and vaginas. I was going to say vaginas but yes, but holes for a living. But I was very particular about the way I did brows and I would have people come in who were like set in their ways and you know, they were like the people who had no brows and they were like not the shape that I would ever put on someone's face, but they would want me to just do that to them and I would say I'm not doing that. That's not the type of brows that I do. I'm going to do them the way that I do them from my 12 years of expertise, and what you do with them after you leave my room, like after you pay me money, that's on you, but don't tell people I did them Like that's my name on your face and I had this power in that I had this. Like what's the confidence I had, confidence in my job that I'm like I have done this for a decade, I know what I'm doing, and if you don't want to pay for that, that's fine, but if you're going to pay me for my confidence and my skills, like you know what I mean, yeah, no, I mean, and in this space I feel like I wasn't confident enough to speak out and say I wouldn't do that if I were you.

Speaker 1:

Or where now you are. Now I am Well and-.

Speaker 2:

I've watched it happen too many times. Yeah, and for me To sit back and say nothing.

Speaker 1:

Owning a gym. People would come to me and they would want help and they would want me to train them. But I was like I'll train you, but you have to come at least two days a week. I prefer three. This is how much you're going to pay. And you know, some people would be like, well, I do this and I do this and I do this, and I'm like, yeah, but that's not working. Like you're coming to me because you need help and you need guidance and what you're doing is not working right now. So I'm presenting a different way to go about this journey to you. Do you want to take it? Because if you don't want to take it, then I'm probably not your trainer.

Speaker 2:

Right, and people respected that because they're like, oh, okay, you're exactly right, because I was very confident in my pricing too.

Speaker 1:

I had people like-, but it took a while. Push me on my pricing. It took a while for me.

Speaker 2:

It did take a while, but we were in that for how many years, like over a decade. So, yeah, people would be like $30 for a brow wax.

Speaker 1:

I'm like yeah, yeah more said, it just takes a few minutes.

Speaker 2:

no, I take my time with you. I'm a perfectionist. You're going to look good.

Speaker 1:

But? But I've told you this and I need to take my own advice.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you do.

Speaker 1:

I know. But I have told you this, where you know you've had these struggles of you've tried to give people advice or the guidance of what you know. Yeah, and I said cause, even with eyebrows. Yeah, you told me what to do, I would do it. Yeah, I was a good customer in that way Shut up on time, paid the amount I needed to, tipped. Well, you told me to do some of my eyebrows, my eyelashes. I did it. How good your eyebrows look like right now. I know I have like great eyebrows.

Speaker 2:

You do.

Speaker 1:

They're fake as hell but they're good. But we want people to take the calls and really we want you to take us serious.

Speaker 2:

Yes, and we'll take you seriously, because we take this very seriously. Yes, yes Is it seriously or serious? We take this very serious.

Speaker 1:

I don't know. They're probably not taking us seriously right now, even though we're trying to be serious. All right, well listen.

Speaker 2:

We're ripping the band-aid off.

Speaker 1:

We're gonna do calls. That's it.

Speaker 2:

We're doing calls, okay, starting next week? Yes, and we're gonna do two different days.

Speaker 1:

I'm doing a day and I'm gonna do a day.

Speaker 2:

Here's the other thing.

Speaker 1:

And I want to kind of talk about, okay, how we're different, okay.

Speaker 2:

Wait, wait, wait. I do want to say, though, if you DM us and you have a question, we're not gonna be fucking rude and be like book a call bitch no. I'll be like, listen that I can answer, maybe like a quick question here and there, yeah, but like, if I think it requires more than just a quick answer, then I'm gonna suggest that you book a call with us. Yes, that simple yes.

Speaker 1:

Okay, go no. Another thing that Leah and I have realized kind of within the last couple of months Okay, leah is internal and I'm external. Yes, can you kind of explain what that means?

Speaker 2:

Oh, my God. Okay. So I am like I wanna go in, I want to go down these rabbit holes. I wanna go down rabbit holes with you. I wanna figure out why you are the way that you are and what makes you that way. And so I'm very into human design. Recently it's been Enneagram stuff, like it's all like internal stuff and you're very external in like you journal. I don't really journal. I have a hard time journaling. Like I like to do things to calm my nervous system down, but it's all like quiet stuff and you are like an external thing which, for a very long time, that's what you did with your job. That's literally like you're a personal trainer. Like I'm not good at guiding people externally I could never talk someone through a class or talk them through breath work but I'll like read your human design chart, yeah, and I'll tell you like the way that you could show up in the world and the way in why you're probably feeling anxiety when you're not showing up a certain way.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, where I'm gonna like journal, I'm gonna do breath work. But also I realized this about myself that I'm not very good with the messages because it requires like a lot of internal stuff and like focus to just sit and type this long thing to you, and it's very long. I would rather have a conversation with you directly.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Shoot the shit.

Speaker 2:

Like it needs to be a for real, like external conversation.

Speaker 1:

I don't wanna text you and I don't wanna DM you about it. I wanna have like an actual conversation. I also think I am somebody who I'm like a pretty straight shooter.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

So you know, if we're having a call like I'm gonna, if you're coming to me for advice, I'm gonna give it. Yeah, and I'm gonna give it honestly and not harshly, but just I'm gonna You're honest, I'm honest and I'm direct.

Speaker 2:

Well, and this is what I realized about you, like you've always been good at that, because, like you could look at someone and if they had goals like fitness wise, you could say, okay, this is what you need to be doing, and this is what you need, and how many times a week you need to do it, and that'll help you get to your goal. Like I was never like that. It's hard to explain.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, like so I.

Speaker 2:

Like, I'm more of like the feelings and the internal and all of like. Let's talk about those feelings and you're like, let's figure out how to calm yourself down. Well, let's do some ice baths, let's do some breath work, and so it's like they kind of go hand in hand, cause you can't do one without the other.

Speaker 1:

Well, even, and even like with friends.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

They'll be like, oh, there's this situation, this situation. I'm like, okay, so we know this. So what are we gonna do?

Speaker 2:

And I'm like, and how does it make you feel?

Speaker 1:

Right when I'm like. I'm like, I hear you, I love you, but what's the?

Speaker 2:

action plan.

Speaker 1:

Like because you are your medicine. So now, what are you gonna do about it?

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

I'm kind of like a personal trainer in that way, like let's fucking go bitch.

Speaker 2:

So it's almost if you guys want to just like, just like book a call and cry, you call me. If you want to book a call and do something about it, you call Christine. So that's literally so true, it's so fucking true, and we know this about ourselves.

Speaker 1:

Because you are, you are, you are, you're good, you're soft and you're you're kind, where I'm like I love you but I'm gonna hold you accountable a little bit. So like, where are we going with this?

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I have some ideas, right.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so with the calls, what are some things, because here's the thing, like we we cannot say this enough we know that we are not the experts and we are not calling ourselves I don't like the word coach, I don't like the word guide, but there are some things that come with this that, like, we can help you with.

Speaker 1:

We're your mushroom accountability partner. No, I'm just kidding, we're your mushroom no, I don't know.

Speaker 2:

We're your mushroom bestie, we're your psychedelic partner, we're I don't know I kind of liked that, like we're, we're your psychedelic bestie, we're like your bestie who can tell you, like what the right medicine would be Like, whether you're like, okay, you know, a friend was like I'm micro dosing but I'm not really feeling anything. And then like I'm like, have you maybe tried micro dosing LSD instead of micro dosing mushrooms? You struggle with focus. That would help more Like that type of thing, like we can help you in other areas. So it's not just coaching, it's not just guiding, it's not just micro dosing, it's like all of it.

Speaker 1:

Yes, kind of like, and I think I I guess I would describe it as we're probably good for people who are really new in this space- that's, that's.

Speaker 2:

I swear to God, that's the number one question we get all the time when do I start? Where do I start? How?

Speaker 1:

do I start?

Speaker 2:

How do I start? Where do I find this? That is again not a black and white answer, Absolutely not, Because then we're like well, where do you live? Well, what does your support system look like? Well, what's your trauma?

Speaker 1:

Right, what's your family history?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

What work are you doing?

Speaker 2:

So we're the beginners, we're like the first step in your journey, kind of I don't know what to call that. We need to come up with some type of name.

Speaker 1:

If you have any ideas.

Speaker 2:

We're open to that Hit us up. What do you, what are we to you guys? I know what are we, are we your? Are we your besties? Yeah, like, do you just want to call your your accountability?

Speaker 1:

Which you totally.

Speaker 2:

Your best friend, who's honest with you but also has great advice.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

That's sometimes hard to hear, so right now they're just like one-on-one calls.

Speaker 1:

But you know, let's say you are not wanting to go the clinical route, you don't know who to guide you. We can help, yeah. You have somebody who has used the medicine. They've only used it one time. You want them to sit with you, but you you both don't know how to do it.

Speaker 2:

We can help. That's where we come, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

You're wanting to start microdosing? That's where we come in.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

You maybe want to do this, but you don't know if you're like in the right place or it's the right time or it's the right environment. We can help. We can help Like there are just little things like that, where we get asked all the time, and we would really rather have it be like an organic phone conversation, since we can't meet all of you in person, because we also meet people in person and help them with this stuff too.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you know how many times I'm sitting up at Starbucks talking about drugs. Same.

Speaker 1:

The Starbucks I go to, they're probably, and then if they hear little tidbits like you know, mdma, microdosing mushrooms they're like here comes that chick again. Here comes that fucking chick with the mushroom. I'll see, I'm usually at Honey Brothers Mushroom tattoo.

Speaker 2:

If you guys ever see me at Honey Brothers, you know I'm talking to somebody about psychedelics.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I go to Starbucks too, but I prefer Honey Brothers because they have my favorite matcha.

Speaker 1:

The Honey Brothers I'm close to. There's not like an indoor, it's just a drive-through.

Speaker 2:

Oh, that's oh, I've seen that one. Yeah, you're right.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, what else could we help people with? It doesn't even have to be psychedelic, so like if you're I was going to say that. You know, let's say you're, I don't even know If hell. If you're wanting like fitness and like wanting to move, or wanting advice with breath work, I'm your girl. If you're wanting to learn more about human design, leah's your girl.

Speaker 2:

So I should say should I say it? Should I say it? Say it. I've been so obsessed with human design and everybody is like you need to get certified, you need to get certified. So I'm working on it.

Speaker 1:

And I'm going to say no one has said anything about me in breath work, but I'm getting certified in breath work. What do you mean? Nobody said anything. I've said it to you, yeah, but like that's not like a thing, right?

Speaker 2:

You don't talk to people about breath work. True, true, true.

Speaker 1:

Not like you do it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

You know what I mean.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, but we're with human design.

Speaker 1:

It's like oh.

Speaker 2:

But you know what's wild, though, and I just want to say this like in the past couple of months, we've noticed this shift in the way that we have been moving.

Speaker 1:

My husband's noticed it, tony's noticed it, we, leah and I, have always connected. We've always had this bond. Even when we met a decade ago and she was just doing my browse or you know, she was coming to my gym or whatever, we still didn't even hang out on our personal level because we respected each other's boundaries so much because we knew we're very similar in that sense. And now that we have this relationship, we've obviously connected through psychedelics and stuff. But recently we've been really in alignment. Yeah, it's been wild, and I think the reason why we've been so in alignment is because we've continued to do this work on our own, because we hold each other. We hold ourselves fucking accountable and we hold each other accountable, but we do this work on our own and we do this work together.

Speaker 2:

And we're honest.

Speaker 1:

And we're honest and we're raw, and I think the more we, the more we heal, the more we step into our power. I know this, you don't like that word, but I'm coming to like it, okay. So the more we step into our power, the more aligned we become and the more we have we have realized our value and our gift in this space and we do have a place here.

Speaker 2:

There was. I remember coming to you the first time I said I think I'm going to do ketamine and this is why I was not about it. I know, I know, I know, and I and I was like and this is why. And then I started being honest about like feeling all this pressure. And then you were like, oh my God, me too. But I was like just going with it because I thought that that's what we were supposed to do. And I thought that like well, christine's going to get mad if I don't and if I'm not doing this. And then you're doing it because you thought that I was going to get mad. And then when I said, like I, I need to do something about this pressure, I'm going to combust and I don't want that to happen, I'm going to burn out, and I don't want that to happen, and just having that conversation, I swear to God, since then it's just been like understanding more about ourselves, understanding more about each other, understanding more about our partners, understanding more about the way that we flow, the way that we work, like and literally. Since then things have just kind of been like happening like literally, effortlessly, almost.

Speaker 1:

And I I think that a lot of times I was scared to voice things to you because I didn't want it to impact our relationship, because me voicing things have has impacted other relationships in my life and it was very. My relationship with you is very special, Like to have a friendship where you're healing with somebody is incredibly. It's wild. It's incredibly special. It's very sacred.

Speaker 2:

It really is.

Speaker 1:

And so and I think too, you probably were had a fear of talking to me because I had this black cat kind of stereotype.

Speaker 2:

Oh yeah, that morning that I like told you that I was going to do it in any way, like I was scared to tell you.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I was so scared.

Speaker 1:

Um, yeah, I think people are scared to have conversations with me because of that and I like I want it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

I want it. Give me the raw, give me the real, give me the vulnerability.

Speaker 2:

I think this is like kind of just the beginning for us.

Speaker 1:

Bitch. I think we're going to do some big things this year. We're going to do big things.

Speaker 2:

So we have the micro retreat coming up in October, October 28th these phone calls, these phone calls. We're literally putting it out there to start it next week and I want to tell you guys how easy it is to book. We have a link in our Instagram. It's literally on our Instagram. It says book now.

Speaker 1:

Yep.

Speaker 2:

And right now we're only open two days a week your Tuesdays, on Fridays, we can work up to it. We're dipping our toes. Okay, so we're dipping our toes, we will. We will work on possibly doing more, tweaking it the way it needs to be tweaked.

Speaker 1:

Also, too, I guess I want to say, if we don't respond to you right away, because I think a lot of times I will open something and then I'll see if that it's kind of maybe geared towards Leah this is the other thing that we've struggled with or you open something but then you see it's like geared more towards me.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that has been a little bit difficult to juggle yeah, and sometimes I'll like have to like look through past conversations and be like I don't remember. I don't remember this what this person is talking about, and I'll have to like scroll back and be like, oh, they were talking to Christine. So then I'm like I leave it on unread. I put it on unread and I'm like Christine, this message might be for you.

Speaker 1:

Right, and sometimes people see that we read something and we don't respond. That's one reason. But also just know that there's a lot of you and there's only two of us and so, like I think, we kind of do that, live in this instant gratification world. So just know, like we will, we will respond, or even if we miss it, I'm really sorry, like we didn't mean to, we didn't mean to genuinely didn't mean to it. It was a mistake, because we try to respond to every message.

Speaker 2:

We really do, we really do. If we've ever not, it's been an accident.

Speaker 1:

So just know that if we've seen it, we'll get to you. We'll get to you.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we have a system kind of We'll just put it on unread, and the unread notifications give you anxiety. They don't me, I know they. I hate they don't me, I hate them. That's something I think. I let go of in my first mushroom trip. Like people see my phone and they're like how do you live like that?

Speaker 1:

And I'm like you guys. She has like 130 text messages.

Speaker 2:

Like I, if it, if it, if it goes away from my front screen, I just forget about it.

Speaker 1:

Okay, I'm going to have to work on that because I'll see something. I'll be like. I don't have the bandwidth to respond to that because it's like a heavy topic, but I see it, but it's bothering me and I don't know what to do yeah, and I've gotten really good at not responding.

Speaker 2:

You are really good at that. Almost to the point that it freaks people out because I'm like I'm fine with it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I will respond when I have a minute to respond and I've just shared with you I'm struggling that right now there's there are people who are texting me and then they'll text me and I don't respond and they're like hey, did you get my text?

Speaker 2:

You're like it's been an hour and then two hours later.

Speaker 1:

Hey, did you get my text? I'm like okay.

Speaker 2:

Um, yeah, yesterday if you texted me sorry I was like gone from like eight o'clock in the morning to 850 at night like driving, running errands, doing things. So like I've been doing a lot of voice messages lately. I kind of like that. I kind of really like that. Another thing I want to talk about before we finish. Yes, okay, some of you know this because we've said this to some of you. You know that we are experimenters. We're the three fives. We've talked about micro dosing. In our last episode. We even said we have been feeling like we want to do a whole protocol. We've never done it. We want to do it, we want to document it, we want to experiment, we want to journal, we want to give you guys feedback, but we want you guys to do it with us. That sounds so cheesy, but like join us. Um, there's a way that we're doing this so it doesn't overwhelm us. So we are. I'm working on a micro dosing workbook right now and I'm putting things in this workbook that are going to be helpful on this month long journey, like things to help calm our nervous system, things that micro dosing can help with, ways to know that you have the right dose. Um, I've been working really hard on this. Okay, okay, she has. So there might be some flaws, but but I'm just going to put it out there. When we start Um, we want 10 people no more than 10 who are ready to start micro dosing for real and do the work and who want to do the work, to do it with us. We have a link to micro dosing, which is the company that we use for micro dosing in our bio.

Speaker 1:

And what I love about them, yeah, is that their mushrooms are stacked.

Speaker 2:

Yes, so you don't have to do this to whole stacking protocol.

Speaker 1:

Right. So what that means is, depending, you know, there are micro doses for focus or calm, or energy, and so let's say focus that is stacked with lions, maine reishi, cordyceps oh, damn, I didn't know all that, but that's the one you take, obviously.

Speaker 2:

The one I take is for calm.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, um yeah, it was reishi cordyceps and, I think, another one. I think there's four different functional mushrooms that were just in that micro.

Speaker 2:

Oh nice.

Speaker 1:

So that's, amazing.

Speaker 2:

Okay, yeah, I do the calm.

Speaker 1:

I do focus Squirrel.

Speaker 2:

Oh shit. So, um, you can go to micro dosify, use the link in our website and purchase a month supply. Actually, it's more than a month supply. It's like 30 capsules. You don't take 30 capsules in a month. You shouldn't be micro dosing every day. Um, we're going to teach you how to do it, the way that we are learning how to do it as we go. Um, I have taken enough courses to know that there are several protocols, so we will work with you on that. We're going to have a private Instagram group just for the 10 of us, so, then, 12 of us total.

Speaker 1:

So then you will be getting support from us, but then you guys can talk to each other, right? Um, and the group get to know each other, get to know each other and you know, share about, like your journaling or your meditation or your breath work it's. It's like we're we're micro dosing together, but we're doing the work together.

Speaker 2:

Yes, and we will do weekly check-ins. That's like the one thing I'm going to still work on, like exactly what this is going to work, because I don't want to overwhelm us. I think weekly check-ins is enough. Yes, um, and we'll go over the book, the booklet, with you guys. Um, we don't know when this is going to start, but it's going to be in the next couple of weeks, hopefully, and it will be a month long. This isn't something that we're planning on doing all the time. This is literally just we wanted to do it and we want you guys to do it with us.

Speaker 1:

And and here's here's here's our thought process behind it, because I think we are the good starting point for people in this space. But again, you are the medicine. So we're going to give you the tools to micro, dose and what to do, but then you're on your own.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 1:

To go do it. Yeah, and we'll. We'll send you on your way.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, share it with your friends.

Speaker 1:

Yep.

Speaker 2:

Um, so that's coming up soon.

Speaker 1:

Super excited about that.

Speaker 2:

We'll post more about that. Um, as I finish rounding out the details in my free time my very little free time it's coming along, though it's coming along. I didn't get shit done yesterday.

Speaker 1:

I think. But I think the other thing too is I think we um, we put a lot of pressure on ourselves to show up a certain way to everybody all the time. Also, we've realized how important it is to live according to our design, or human design.

Speaker 2:

So with that, let me say this I'm going to round this out. Take this full circle.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

When I had my intention for ketamine, it was to relieve this pressure. Where I am now post treatment one and post the intention setting my intention with this all kind of changed and also in learning more about my human design. We do not work well under pressure, so the problem for me was recognizing where the pressure came from.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

I don't do well, and neither does Christine, with your design. And neither one of us do well when the pressure comes from outside sources. Only if it comes from us. Only if it comes from us is when we do well.

Speaker 1:

And we, uh, really struggled to like it, felt like it was mine.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I didn't know how to tell the difference. I'm like am I putting this pressure on myself, or is it coming from my husband, or is it coming from our followers, or is it coming from this person or this person? Or feeling like I have felt a certain way like there was so much pressure, and then now I'm like, no, this is what I want to do. This relieves and alleviate some of that pressure, because now we're doing it in the way we want to do it, yeah, yeah, and in a way that um is is, uh, an energetic exchange that's worth giving up our time for.

Speaker 1:

And I think I lacked confidence in the beginning because I thought like, well, I'm like really talking to people about really, really deep things and their trauma, and I don't want to them to do this stuff because we said it and like re traumatize them, right? So I think this is like a good way where we can show up in the world, give our gift, give our value, give our insight, give our guidance, while also like still protecting ourselves too.

Speaker 2:

Yes, I think we maybe kept this under an hour.

Speaker 1:

Good Go us.

Speaker 2:

I know I five bitch, I don't know what that was. Okay, so stay tuned. We're dropping this episode on a Friday, by the way, as a surprise for you guys. Um, and we can't wait for you guys to um join us on the journey.

Speaker 1:

You know, yeah, look at you and your big weenus energy. I've got some big weenus energy.

Speaker 2:

Fo sho, Fo sho. Now, if you're needing big dick energy, though, yeah, that's Christine, that's not me, that's not me. So thank you guys for listening to us. Um, I don't want to call this ranting. It wasn't ranting.

Speaker 1:

No, that was a good shoot the shit.

Speaker 2:

That was a good shoot the shit and setting boundaries and kind of showing you guys where we are and where we want to be and where we're going to be. Yeah, all right, stay curious, be open and we'll see you on the other side. Bye.

Navigating Overwhelm and Setting Boundaries
Importance of Harm Reduction and Self-Care
Explore Psychedelic Experiences
Guidance and Support for Beginners
Microdosing Experiment and Support Group
Friday Surprise