Welcome to another trip report. Christine shares her most recent heroic journey with psilocybin where she experiences being born, ancestral trauma, and a powerful message of letting go to carry into her healing process.
Christine's exploration of her past is further enhanced through the insights gained from her session with spiritual medium, Jenny Shanks, a few days later. She connects with a family member on the other side and the messages she receives become part of an integration and cultural rediscovery process. As she learns to embrace her Marshallese heritage and incorporating it into her family traditions, she finds a deeper sense of identity and belonging.
Finally, we discuss the power of self-awareness and the importance of supportive structures when facing life's challenges. Come, join us on this transformative journey and be inspired by Christine's story!
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Use code OTHERSIDE15 for 15% off of our favorite mushroom gummies!
Our Website:
https://linktr.ee/seeyouontheothersidepodcast
Welcome to another trip report. Christine shares her most recent heroic journey with psilocybin where she experiences being born, ancestral trauma, and a powerful message of letting go to carry into her healing process.
Christine's exploration of her past is further enhanced through the insights gained from her session with spiritual medium, Jenny Shanks, a few days later. She connects with a family member on the other side and the messages she receives become part of an integration and cultural rediscovery process. As she learns to embrace her Marshallese heritage and incorporating it into her family traditions, she finds a deeper sense of identity and belonging.
Finally, we discuss the power of self-awareness and the importance of supportive structures when facing life's challenges. Come, join us on this transformative journey and be inspired by Christine's story!
Colors
Use code OTHERSIDE15 for 15% off of our favorite mushroom gummies!
Our Website:
https://linktr.ee/seeyouontheothersidepodcast
Welcome back to another episode of See you On the Other Side. Hi friends, hi guys, today's episode I am putting Christine on the spot and she doesn't like this. No, I don't. We've talked so many times about how like I'm really good at being interviewed.
Speaker 3:Yes, you are. You're so good at it.
Speaker 1:And you're really good at interviewing. Yeah, I'm like really good.
Speaker 3:So I'm good at deflecting.
Speaker 1:Oh, ouch, that self awareness. I've learned that about myself, damn. Is that why, like you, when you meet someone you want to know everything about?
Speaker 3:them, and I purposely don't shared things about myself.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's wild. How do you do that? I'm just kidding. I have trauma. I wonder what that is Drama.
Speaker 3:I've been, I've always been that way.
Speaker 1:Deflecting, so not wanting to like see your stuff or talk about your stuff or anybody to really see you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I've always been somebody who is very I may over, share with people some things, and then I get home and I immediately regret it, immediately regret sharing my authentic self.
Speaker 1:Damn.
Speaker 3:So that's something I've really had to work on on on, like, the balance of sharing things. When I feel good and not feeling shame for sharing it, you turn off the fan, yeah. It was like making a blowing noise and the mics, yeah. Yeah, that's better. So much better it was kind of cold on me anyways.
Speaker 1:Oh, your little THO THO, tho, titty hard on. I've never been on a show.
Speaker 3:I've never heard that what.
Speaker 1:THO no, oh, wow, oh my God, am I teaching you something?
Speaker 3:Yeah, about titties too, especially.
Speaker 1:About titties.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, I know, I got some tittie knowledge.
Speaker 3:Do you have some big weenus energy?
Speaker 1:Big THO energy, big weenus energy, big tittie energy. I do today you do have big tittie energy.
Speaker 3:I do today.
Speaker 1:I want them out and I feel so uncomfortable.
Speaker 3:It looks good. You got good titties. Thanks, babe, you're welcome.
Speaker 1:See, I'm deflecting right now, deflect I know I'm like hold on a minute, we are not doing this today, so how about them?
Speaker 3:titties, okay.
Speaker 1:So last weekend you did another mushroom journey and I was supposed to do one also.
Speaker 3:But what did you do? Don't deflect right now.
Speaker 1:I guess I'll say what we were supposed to do as a couple and what we ended up doing anyway. So I read these articles about taking MDMA and psilocybin together and the way that you do it. It's really interesting because you do the mushrooms first, get comfy. You do the mushrooms first and then, like you can, dose with the MDMA like an hour or two later. So when you're coming down, oh, this is what they said about it.
Speaker 3:I want to try that.
Speaker 1:This is what they said about it. So like taking psychedelics is like looking into the abyss and the abyss stairs back. But if you add MDMA to it and you're coming down from the mushrooms while on MDMA, it's like the abyss is smiling back, so it makes for like an easier come down, but then also like you're just in a happier, better mood, laughter involved instead of like as you and I both know immediately after a large journey.
Speaker 3:It's a lot.
Speaker 1:It's a lot there's a lot of processing A lot of processing, a lot of like I wouldn't even say emotions, because you don't know really what they are. It's just a lot of like what the fuck just happened. I need to just sit here and do nothing for a little bit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, this last journey. I was texting you that night and I was still struggling to come down from it. I was struggling to talk to you and put thoughts together and put words together. It lasted longer than any journey I've ever done and the come down was way more intense than anything I've ever done.
Speaker 1:Like really really hard yeah.
Speaker 3:Very profound.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So that's not what I did, though. We didn't do that. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:We just didn't do that so quick question what's the soft spot with mixing mushrooms and MDMA? Like, how many grams with mushrooms?
Speaker 1:So the article that I found gave an exact like dosing script, because obviously if you've never like worked with these medicines, you don't want to jump into it and do two grams of mushrooms and a full dose of MDMA. So it has like dosing recipes for people who are new to it, people who are familiar with the medicines. Maybe I can link that article.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that would be good. And our bio? I want to read that too.
Speaker 1:So it was a last minute decision and because of that we were both kind of like, hmm, this is a good idea, but maybe we should wait and do this another time. So we just did the MDMA, so I just had a really fun night, okay. You, on the other hand.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I just did mushrooms, so and that was. It was the first journey where I was at home. I've never done a journey at home.
Speaker 1:Okay, so let's get into it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and for those who don't know, this happened almost a week ago and Leah knows nothing. And we do this on purpose, because I don't want to know shit.
Speaker 1:We want this, you know this conversation to be organic and I want to be able to ask questions that I truly don't know the answer to, because I will otherwise forget to ask those type of questions. So this is truly me like digging I'm going to be probing your little mind. Yeah, no, it's been hard to keep it from you.
Speaker 3:It has been because we spent a lot of time Together this week, I know, and no one besides Tony really knows about my experience, so yeah, it was. It was the first journey I did at home. It was also the first time I did a journey and did breath work right after I took the medicine and I think that it accelerated how quickly it hit me and I think it accelerated maybe how intense the experience was. Wow.
Speaker 1:You're like super into the breath work and stuff right now.
Speaker 3:I've gotten very into the breath work.
Speaker 1:I love that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you are very into the human design and the inner stuff. Right, we haven't really shared this, but I'm thinking about getting certified or trained in breath work and you are thinking about getting training in human design. Yep, yep, if you're more internal, you're more internal. Which?
Speaker 1:I fucking love. I do too. It's kind of wild how you have ADHD. I don't Like. You do a lot. You need a lot of external processing. I need more internal processing.
Speaker 3:It's hard for me to sit. Still, you can go down these rabbit holes.
Speaker 1:For hours.
Speaker 3:I just can't.
Speaker 1:It's wild how different we are. It's good ying and yang. Yeah, Because I'm going to start having you like I'll probably never. That's not something that ever interested me is like learning breath work. But you also did like a lot of body stuff. Like you're a personal trainer, Like you owned a gym We've talked about when we go to the beach.
Speaker 3:I can't sit in a chair. I'm in the water being a mermaid.
Speaker 1:And I'm just laying there doing nothing, basking in the sun, baking. So yeah, you're going to. You did breath work before, so let me how many.
Speaker 3:Five grams.
Speaker 1:You did five.
Speaker 3:I was thinking about doing six and I got scared. Totally, total transparency.
Speaker 1:I think that's normal for anybody in this space. I don't care if you've done the same amount at 50 times. Like every time you do it, there's a little bit of there's fear Fear.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So for if I were to say that I wasn't scared every time I did a journey, no matter what psychedelic I was using, I would be completely bold face line.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're not that brave guys. We are brave. We're brave because we do it anyway.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't think bravery is doing things only when you're not scared. I think bravery is doing like doing things even though you are scared. Yeah, I think that's bravery, yeah, so, yeah, so it hits. And the thing is is Tony sat with me and I thought it would take, because my first journey it took two hours for me to go into the medicine, cause you fought it so hard. I did fight it and this time I did not. So within 20 minutes I was feeling it. The problem was Tony wasn't home because Tony took Kai somewhere.
Speaker 1:Your son and your fiance. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So yeah, my son and my fiance, so I thought it would be okay. But by the time and so I went and sat outside on my deck and I wanted to just sit outside and be with nature until he got home. But the problem is is when he got home, I was in it.
Speaker 1:You were so far gone.
Speaker 3:I was so far gone and it was it like took 15 to 20 minutes, which is pretty, pretty quick.
Speaker 1:So when you talk about breath work, are you talking about like the holotropic breath work? Like? Are you using like a method, like, what method do you tend to use?
Speaker 3:So usually I have done Wim Hof, Okay, but now getting certified, I've been talking to Lindsay, who we've had on here she's our Pilates instructor and then Bear he's the owner of the Pilates studio that she works at Gosh I can't remember her name. They gave me the name of this woman who I could do training through, and so that breath work session the day of my journey was with this woman.
Speaker 1:Oh like you called her. No, no, it was just a thing.
Speaker 3:It was just a introductory breath work session she had on her website, because I wanted to get a feel for her and her style.
Speaker 1:You felt it. You got a feel for her.
Speaker 3:Sure did, sure did so. This was also the first time that my fiance Tony has ever sat with me, but by the time he came outside, I was in it and I wanted him to stay inside. I wanted to be alone. This is the other crazy thing. So I have two dogs, and one of my dogs, drogo I don't know if you guys watch Game of Thrones. He is named after Cal Drogo, which his name does not represent him at all. So he is Drogo, is this giant white great Pyrenees. He's like a hundred and he's huge. He's huge, but he is the biggest chicken shit ever. So he is this giant dog.
Speaker 3:He has anxiety. I've already looked to see if mushrooms would help him. You're not supposed to give dogs mushrooms. So he's on like Xanax. He will have panic attacks all of the time. He has panic attacks if it's raining outside. Do you know when? This is so gross? When dogs get really scared, they secrete their anal glands and so it's almost like they pee, but it's out of their butt and it's like liquid shit. It's disgusting. So, anyways. I have a story with this.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I have a story with this. So he is like he is scared of everything. He's like I feel like he's like scared of a squirrel or a bird, or I mean he's a walking panic attack. And so there was one time my stepdaughter she had like a giant stuffed teddy bear in her room and he went and hopped on her bed and he saw the teddy bear and he secreted his anal glands on her bed. So that's how much of a chicken shit he is he's like me?
Speaker 3:He is kind of like you. That's how much of it. He's just a titty. So I took the medicine and it, like I said, it hit me very quickly and, for whatever reason, I did not want Tony outside and I did not want my other dog outside. But I want to drug go outside with me because for some reason there was something about him that was incredibly calming and protective over me, and when he and I do not recommend doing it with dogs, we do talk about this but for whatever reason, with him it worked that day and usually when he's outside he's barking at birds and barking at squirrels, and I was in this journey for probably a solid three, four hours. Not one time did he bark.
Speaker 1:Can I say what I think? There's a difference in that, though, like I usually recommend no animals, and there's like a multitude of reasons. But I think another reason is because I don't know that animal and that animal doesn't know me if I'm guiding someone, but when I have done it alone in my house, my cat has stayed with me. There's not another presence there, it's me, and I think that if it's just you, he's safe, he feel you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:But I have a theory about it and I'll go into it.
Speaker 1:I have a theory that it wasn't him. Damn. Okay, I have a thing. Okay, I know this sounds crazy.
Speaker 3:No, y'all know Like. I know what I'm saying is going to, you know, break some people's brains. I think a spirit went into his body, and it wasn't him. Shut the fuck up, cause right after I got out of it he went right back to being anxious.
Speaker 1:Shut the fuck up. And it was a very challenging so like you, just like, knew like you, internally and intuitively knew that like he needed to be out there with you.
Speaker 3:And Tony specifically came out onto the deck and I said I don't need you, but I need Drogo. And that's not something I would typically say, because Drogo's not necessarily like get him the fuck out of here. Yeah, yeah. Wow.
Speaker 3:So my plan was to go into my bedroom, do the mask, listen to the music, do all of that, and I didn't end up doing any of that, cause it hit too fast. Yeah, I stayed outside and, for whatever reason, I something kept pulling me outside and in our room we have this decor and it's a map of the Marshall Islands. And right before it hit, I went into my room and I felt compelled to look at it and I pulled it off our wall and I just stared at it, put it on our bed and just immediately went outside and laid right down and went into it and the first thing that I experienced was the trauma of childbirth. I was, I was in my mother's womb and cause I think that a lot of people don't even realize that childbirth is traumatic.
Speaker 1:For the baby and the mother.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and so I literally experienced the trauma of being born. The fuck Like through the birth canal and all of that. And then I experienced the trauma of neglect, and then the trauma of of abandonment, and then the trauma of abuse, and then the trauma of sexual abuse and rape and any trauma that you can think of. I felt it.
Speaker 1:And what was crazy? Were you seeing it or just feeling it? Both?
Speaker 3:And what was crazy is it wasn't just my trauma. I was experiencing other people's trauma within my family, like generations and generations and generations and generations, like ancestral trauma, all down the line. So it wasn't even mine. It was wild. So I was lying on my side and I was sobbing and Tony could hear me like wailing and just sobbing and like rubbing myself and hugging myself, and he would come and he would place his hand on me Just to let me know that he was there and I was safe and all of that. And I would respond back to him and say I'm powerful, I got this, I'm really powerful, I got this.
Speaker 3:But there was so much abuse in my family and there was one time where we were talking on the podcast and we were talking about abuse and you said something about how sometimes emotional abuse can be harder than physical abuse, because it's much more discreet, where my opinion is a little bit different, because physical abuse isn't just physical, it's emotional, it's mental, it's psychological.
Speaker 3:But there's just been so much abuse through my family that has just kept going from generation to generation to generation and so I felt all of it and everything that I felt was you know, my dad and his dad and his dad and his dad, and it just kept going and kept going and it kept going, and this was for like a good three hours experiencing all of it, and it was incredibly challenging. The realization, though, was so I've always been described from most people as a very angry person. Oh shit, and they're not wrong. I was very angry. I was very angry for the things that I saw, the abuse that I had to experience, the fact that I didn't have a safe adult, a safe environment, anybody to talk to, but the message of the journey was that all of the trauma that I was feeling in my life, all of the trauma that I was feeling in that journey, it wasn't mine.
Speaker 3:Oh my God, it was never mine and so, yes, there were things that happened to me and there were things that I saw and I experienced that were incredibly unfair, and I carried that with me for my entire life and it made me very angry. But it was never mine to hold and to let it go, because it wasn't mine to have in the first place. It was just being around and being raised by a lot of people who were traumatized and just incredibly unhealed. And that was their pain.
Speaker 3:And it was their pain. It got projected on to me but it wasn't mine and that was wild. It was really wild. And that, although the anger that I felt was valid because I was just, I think too, the misconception with people who are seem like they can hold their own and they seem confident and they seem strong, and I think sometimes people feel less empathy for those types of people. Yeah, I was also just a sad little girl who, like there was anger there, but behind that anger was just a really a lot of sadness that I didn't feel comfortable express. But I felt more comfortable with anger, but just a lot of sadness that I didn't feel protected, and so anger was my defense mechanism because it was like if no one else is going to protect me, then I'll turn into this badass, confident, strong woman. So really it was an incredible front that I created and this incredible mass that people thought that it was really me, but it wasn't, because really deep down I was just sad and felt very alone. Yeah, no.
Speaker 3:I'm good. How many times do we cry on these goddamn episodes?
Speaker 1:I mean at least one of us every episode, and it's usually me.
Speaker 3:But, but. So I experienced all of that and this reoccurring theme of my ancestor showed up, showing up has like my last journey. My ancestor showed up, but it was like this pretty, like rainbows and like whatever.
Speaker 1:He, like my ancestors, told me I was on the right path. Yes, yes, it was so powerful. Yes, yes, this one was like bitch sit down.
Speaker 3:Yes, and so I experienced all that. But then the message was this is not yours to carry, so stop carrying it. And also, you have this power, you have this powerful presence to you and you don't necessarily have to try to be it, you just have it. So, unhealed me, it came out. The power was anger, yeah, and now it's. The message was okay, you have this powerful presence, whether you like it or don't, whether people like it or love or hate it. What are you going to do with that now? Are you going to keep carrying that anger? Are you going to let it go and like have a powerful presence where you're also vulnerable and soft and you show up and with love, and you show like, how are you going to show up in the world now that you have this? You've always had it, but what are you going to do with it now?
Speaker 1:Oh my.
Speaker 3:God, are you going to keep holding on to shit that wasn't yours? Are you going to go and actually like spread some love with it?
Speaker 1:How many times has that popped up as the theme the last few weeks for both of us? And you sent me little memes or something that says something about it and I just thought you were like. I just thought like it was a continuation of what we talked about in the Barbie episode, but it's like, oh shit, you learned that Like the answer to everything like that sounds so simple and it's not simple. It's really not. It's like what we were talking about and we've brought this analogy up how many times. The angry vegan.
Speaker 3:And I was the angry vegan.
Speaker 1:And not literally, but the metaphor of being like angry and not very tolerant, of intolerance. That's what you said earlier.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I was very black and white about things and sure you know I may have felt really strongly about things before and really passionate about things, but we all have different experiences, we all have different perspectives, like we all have different beliefs, and that's really okay.
Speaker 1:So let me just I'm just going to give an example here, because you know, this was this was my lesson several weeks ago without having to do mushrooms and that, like you, can be angry and powerful and there's, there is something in that that works, but it works because you are scaring the other person into submission.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I like to intimidating people.
Speaker 1:And I realized that you can get this. You can get a better outcome when you go to that person with love and empathy about the same situation. It doesn't have to be angry for you to get your point across and it's almost heard in a different way. So it's like fuck you, you're doing this and it's hurting my feelings and I don't want you to hurt my feelings anymore. Or you go to this person and you're like what you said really hurt my feelings and I love you so much. I don't want to lose you, but I need you to do it this way. Yeah, so it doesn't hurt me anymore. Yeah, so I don't put walls up.
Speaker 3:But you know how you had to. Just this last episode. You had to learn how to be angry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're learning not to be.
Speaker 3:I've had to learn how to be soft.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so I think there's an in between that's very powerful.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. And so my ancestors, they were like you're powerful, like your gift is how powerful you are because you show people their power. You have this confidence to you, you have this. I and I know I do, I have this grit to me, like I know that I'm strong. You're tough, I'm tough. You're very tough, I am very tough.
Speaker 1:I'm a little wussy titty baby.
Speaker 3:You're not, though, anymore. You're pretty tough, but it was. What are you going to do with that powerful presence? Because, again, you were holding on to trauma that wasn't yours, and because you did that, yes, you were a victim, but also there's a lot of people who you're the villain in their story.
Speaker 1:Ouch, yeah, and that's true with anybody. Absolutely but that's hard to hear.
Speaker 3:But I needed to hear it and I knew that. I've known that, and I mean after I did my first mushroom journey. There were people that I reached out to and apologized.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you went on an apology tour.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because I was like I was the villain in their story and it was valid. It was very, very valid because I didn't get to express my anger, I didn't have an escape, so I projected it on to other people too, just like how people projected on their anger onto me and it wasn't theirs, it was mine, but it wasn't mine.
Speaker 1:It was theirs.
Speaker 3:It was theirs, it was the people behind me Right. And then the people who projected it onto me. It wasn't theirs either.
Speaker 1:Right, it was the people behind them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean it was just generations and generations and generations of it being passed down, and so it was like you are powerful.
Speaker 1:But I miss, just like a human centipede of trauma.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it really was. Have you seen that movie? No?
Speaker 1:I googled it once and saw the picture on the screen. I was like nope, I can't watch movies like that.
Speaker 3:No, but my roommates in college watched it and I'm like no our sick mother fuckers.
Speaker 1:I can't.
Speaker 3:No, god.
Speaker 1:But I was like, well, I'm so sorry, I was so sorry. I remember the G-race out of my mind and I can't believe I just said that, but it is it's like a fucking human human centipede of fucking abuse and trauma.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it just kept, and so it's.
Speaker 3:it's when that happens and no one's breaking it, it's hard to differentiate what's yours and what's not. Yeah, so that was the lesson. My dog, who is this anxious, you know whatever for that three, four hours he did not bark, and anytime I was going through that trauma of whatever kind of abuse or neglect or whatever that I was going through, he would just sit next to me, put his head on me, shut up, and he's. He's also a dog who he's so big, he's he can't keep his head still, like, so, like when you even pet him on the head, it's like this he's like Bob and he is, he's bobbin and we can. All the time where he was so stoic and calm.
Speaker 1:That's why I have this thought of like lending you his calm nervous system for the first time, Cause it wasn't his no it wasn't that spirit took over.
Speaker 3:I don't know what spirit, but spirit took over. Okay, so what's crazy?
Speaker 1:though you're like, can you keep that spirit with you. Yeah, can you come back, right?
Speaker 3:Right, right, literally later that night, you know, I was in bed like recovering and he was like having a panic attack about something I don't even remember. You're like really did no, really, and I was like, so that even that night I'm like, that was not you.
Speaker 1:Oh, my God.
Speaker 3:That wasn't you. But anyways after that, oh, I totally forgot about this part. So during when I was outside, it was warm that day, but nothing crazy.
Speaker 1:Right, it wasn't really humid. It was hot, but it was not humid yeah.
Speaker 3:And I was on my deck. It was, you know, covered. There's a fan out there and you're like a fucking lizard.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I love hot, yeah. So I sent Leah this picture. Tony took this picture and I'm laying on my side and I'm wearing, not pants, I'm going to T shirt in my underwear, and he took this picture and coming out of every pore all over my body are these sweat beads. And I've never sweat so much in my life. Tony has never. I've. I've never seen anyone else sweat so like. I've never seen a photo like that. I don't think I could go in a sauna and sweat that much.
Speaker 1:I've never seen sweat coming out of every single pore. I've seen sweat dripping out of people like dripping down their legs.
Speaker 3:I mean I'm just, I am a sweater. Same. Like, but it was just these like, perfect little droplets all over.
Speaker 1:My body, over every pore, and you know, it was like you could see them, like coming out of the pores almost yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And so it was almost like I purged out all of this trauma, not for me, for me and for all of my family, because purging can come in the form of laughing, laughing, throwing up shitting, crying, crying somatic processing and movements For me, I literally sweat it out.
Speaker 3:So when I kind of I was still kind of like in it came out of it, I just experienced like fucking generations and generations of trauma. The only thing that I wanted to do was to get into water. And again, for those you know, if they don't know I was born in the Marshall Islands and I've always had this connection with the ocean and water and like I feel like when I'm near water, in water, I am whole, and so all I wanted to do was get water. But I'm like girl, you look like a hot fucking mess. So if you get in your pool, people are gonna be staring.
Speaker 3:Your narrowbears are gonna be like what she like. I look like I just had an exorcism, okay.
Speaker 1:It reminds me of, like the time I thought I thought I knew what grounding was and I was like I'm going to try it and I went outside in the pouring rain and just laid in the backyard and I'm like the neighbors are probably like this bitch.
Speaker 3:She's going crazy, she's going crazy and you're like you're not wrong.
Speaker 1:Right, I was like, but I also didn't really fully under understand what grounding was. Yeah, I mean, I was trying so hard to do it, but I'm sure I was doing it in some capacity.
Speaker 3:Well, and here's the other thing too Our neighbors are like these girls. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Another reason why I didn't want to go in my pool is because I have red hair. I've dyed red hair and I had just gotten my hair glazed a few days ago and so, sweating, I had red hair all like red dye all over me from sweating so badly that I literally was like sweating my red dye out of my hair. So I was like they're really going to think I'm crazy if I go into this water and like the water like turns red and like bleeding all around you, jesus Christ.
Speaker 3:So I tell Tony and I'm somebody who I fucking hate cold, like I love warm, so like I struggle with like doing like the cold plunging and things like that, because in that way I'm the biggest fucking titty and but but for whatever reason, I told Tony. I said please make me a cold bath. He's like OK, so he sure about that.
Speaker 1:So he makes me a cold bath and he's like are you OK?
Speaker 3:And I'm like, yes, but I just want to be alone and I just laid in this water because I had just experienced all of this trauma and it was a it was. It took a lot for me to come down and recover from it and the only thing that made me feel at peace was to get it in water. Whatever kind of body of water that was to help me, Not even like like the, like lukewarm water, no, like cold water cold ice cold water.
Speaker 1:Jesus Christ and.
Speaker 3:I just laid in it.
Speaker 1:Oh, it was wild.
Speaker 3:But it took a long time to come down, but that was definitely the most intense journey I've ever experienced, whether it be any type of psychedelic ayahuasca, all of it, it was. It was, hands down, the most challenging, oh my God, but I do feel like it was the most profound, haven't you ever heard that I feel like somebody said this to us in our live last week.
Speaker 1:Maybe, like the bad trips are always the most powerful. Yeah, and it was like, that's where, like, the biggest lessons are. If you know how to integrate it, if you know that there's a lesson there and it's not meant to be terrifying, right, there's something in it for you. But it's not meant to be terrifying, there's something in it for you. You just kind of have to figure that out on your own Right, right? Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:And so I guess that's like everything you're saying. If someone heard that who's never done this before, it would sound terrifying. It would sound terrifying.
Speaker 3:Not a hard sell in it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, not a hard sale it's absolutely like and why would you want to feel generations of physical and emotional and sexual trauma? I was carrying it anyways.
Speaker 3:You were already feeling it, you were already fucking holding on to it.
Speaker 1:I was holding on to it anyways, but they would look like you, look at you like you were insane and taking it back to the bad trip thing. What if you had done that amount? Didn't know what you were doing Was like, with a group of people who, like, wasn't on that level was drinking and partying, it would be a lot of people who were like I'm partying.
Speaker 1:It would be absolutely traumatic, a traumatic experience, bad trip. I just I feel like we always need to like take it back to that, because there is such a difference in what we're talking about. Yeah. Yeah, it was challenging.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:But it was beautiful.
Speaker 3:It was, it was, it was beautiful, I needed it. Oh my God, I needed it. And a few days later, we've interviewed Jenny Shanks on on the podcast and, oh my God, I forgot. I know. I know, and so I have seen Jenny before. But we went for Tony, yeah, and the reason why we went for Tony is because he had this really loving childhood, and so I didn't think anyone, even in spirit world, would show up for me.
Speaker 1:Well, and his parents have both passed away.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Like he had a very loving relationship with the both of them and they had a very loving relationship together and he did have he did have a beautiful childhood.
Speaker 1:So to anybody who doesn't know Jenny, she's a spiritual medium, but she's also like you can't just book an appointment with her in a few days. No, like you've got this appointment and it's set for months and you and I were in Indian apolis the night before and we're like we have to make it back because you have an appointment with Jenny and you are not about to miss this appointment. And I'm like, bitch, I got you, we are not missing that appointment.
Speaker 3:We will be back in time, I promise. I just had to make sure, because you drive like a grandma. I do drive like a memo. You've got and you've got way too fast of a fucking car to be driving like a fucking me.
Speaker 1:I got little Weenus energy and it's a BDE car.
Speaker 3:Well, I drove her for five minutes and I got a little, a little taste. I know you got a little ego in there.
Speaker 1:I was like, and I'll drive I'll, it's fine, I can do this over the speed limit a little bit. I'm just a very, very cautious. That's the best driver.
Speaker 3:You need to always drive because I will literally get a speed.
Speaker 1:But I have a car that goes 60 seconds and three or 60 miles per hour and three seconds.
Speaker 3:So me with that car. I've lost my license twice. No way.
Speaker 1:I've never had a speeding ticket in my life. You're so annoying, I'm so annoying, but I got you back. You did safely on time. On time, everything.
Speaker 3:It was perfect.
Speaker 1:You weren't even stressed on the ride Not at all, not at all. So I'm a safe fucking driver.
Speaker 3:So, but I had a lot of nerves going to see Jenny, because so she specializes in communicating with people who have passed. And I had a lot of nerves going to see her because, again, this mindset of you were abandoned, you were neglected, you were abused, you didn't have any adult that you felt connected with.
Speaker 1:Nobody's going to show up.
Speaker 3:No one's going to show up.
Speaker 1:I didn't know we were going here today and I'm so excited.
Speaker 3:Yeah, oh, okay yeah.
Speaker 1:I didn't know you wanted to add it on.
Speaker 3:I do.
Speaker 1:Okay. So, again, none of this was planned or timed this way.
Speaker 3:It happened perfectly.
Speaker 1:Your appointment with her and your journey over the weekend like happened to coincide, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. So, and again, you know backstory, I I Okay, all right, let's go in had a. My dad got removed from my life at about five years old and then he just was never in my life after that and he was in the Marshall Islands, I was in the States, and so you know there is a lot of disconnection with him, his family, my culture, there's a lot, um, so saw it fast forward go and see Jenny this week and my dad comes through.
Speaker 1:You texted me that and I was like I think I called you immediately. You were like I'll call you back. Yeah, because I wasn't even expecting that. Yeah, and we've talked about your dad on this, on this podcast, before in the very, very, very beginning.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, and I think if you are a child that, uh, grows up with a lot of abuse around you and then, uh, that parent isn't a part of your life anymore, that parent struggled with addiction, um, that I had a big abandonment wound and and I had a big father wound and I took it very personally that he wasn't in my life anymore, that I did something wrong or he didn't love us, or you know kind of where your head goes, what any child would think, right, right.
Speaker 3:So my, my dad showed up and he, he passed away, um, and it's, it's, it's a weird feeling when a parent passes away that you didn't have any type of connection with, because you don't have, like these positive memories, or there was no closure, there was no conversation, like it's a very conflicting feeling, like you don't know if you should feel great, like it's just, oh, it's just a weird feeling. Anyway, so he, he came through and, um, the first thing that he said was that he completely understood and respected if, um, I did not want to hear from him, but he did want to share his feelings and his thoughts and his perspective about how things happened, and so I was. Obviously, I never got to hear his side, or I never got to hear. You know his thoughts and and and all of the things, and so, um I I wanted to hear it.
Speaker 1:Can I say something to that really quick? Yeah, yeah, I think that when that happens, even when someone's alive and they make this like huge change in their life and they want to make amends or apologize for the things that they did, to me that's a telltale sign that this person is genuine, because there's a lot of people who are like I said I'm sorry and I want you to hear this and you need to hear me, and I think if you, if you are with someone who is truly changing and truly making positive changes, when they're alive and they apologize, the apology sounds very similar to that. I completely understand. If you don't want to hear this from me. Yeah, I respect that. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But I do wish that you would hear what I would have to say, and if you don't want to, that's okay too, because I I deserve that, I own that. Yeah. So I think that that's like incredibly selfless yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Um. So he showed up and the first thing that he went to was he backtracked to his childhood and that he was abused by his own father and his mother he did have a connection with, but she was always gone because she worked all the time. And so he grew up with a lot of abuse and a lot of chaos and then he became an adult and struggled with addiction because of his own demons and he said he really wanted to be a good person but he didn't know how. He didn't have the tools. And again it goes. You know, very reminiscent of my journey, where the message was you were just around a lot of unhealed people who didn't know what to do and and didn't know how to heal their trauma, and they were unknowingly projecting it and continuing the cycle, even though they wanted it to stop.
Speaker 1:He was in polluted water.
Speaker 3:He was in polluted water and, like I, was the one powerful enough to get out of it. So he did. He apologized and he said that he didn't. He didn't, he wanted to be a good person but he didn't know how. He genuinely didn't know how and in spirit he has had obviously that time to reflect on the mistakes that he made and the things that he wished he would have done better. And he knew about Kai and he. He knew when Kai came to the scene. He knew to the States and Kai's my son, and came to the States and became a part of our family.
Speaker 3:He encouraged me that, even though I have struggled with my culture because of my own anger and resentment towards him and the memories I have in the Marshall Islands, that he wanted me to try but he understood, understood if I struggled with it but to try to do things to reconnect with my culture, to remember who I am and to do it for my son. So it's never lost with him like it got lost with me and to to like, start learning about customs and traditions and and recipes that are within our culture and that the connecting, the connecting piece to that was my sister, tracy, and he brought her up and he said the reason why. He said that is she's the oldest and she's my half sibling and she's she's I'm the youngest, she's the oldest. I take that back. I'm not the youngest anymore. I always thought I was the youngest, and my dad ended up having other children. I didn't know that until he died. Oh dang, I didn't know that either. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean, how would I know that Like, but I didn't, I didn't know, I'll just. I'll just say this I have a lot of brothers and sisters.
Speaker 3:Homeboy was getting fucking busy.
Speaker 3:I mean, we all have our demons, but my sister, is the oldest and it always kind of bothered me because after he died, she shared a lot of positive things about him and it triggered me, um, because I was like, fuck you, like I didn't get that. I don't have those memories although not only memories I have are bad memories and you're saying, oh, he's this and he's this, and I'm like, uh, it's very triggering, but she genuinely has good memories with him because it wasn't all bad, he's not all bad. And do you ever feel like?
Speaker 1:I mean, I know you don't know him, but I think I do feel like a lot of addicts get worse, yeah, and and it's not like you just wake up one day and you're like this horrible, awful addicted you know person who does all these horrible, awful things Like it's like a progression into like worse and worse and worse. And so that's why a lot of even my husband, my husband, he's like I'm not that bad of an alcoholic, but I'm like, but you're getting there.
Speaker 1:Right, like you're, you're slowly climbing that hill or falling down the hill, however you want to look at it Like it's not. You're not far off.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he. He died in his in his his sixties and I think he started drinking in his early teens. It's a lot of years of abusing a substance.
Speaker 1:Well, and how many before it became an issue. It was fun, right, yeah, my husband was a. He was fun before. He was not fun, right, so it really wasn't like considered an addiction in the beginning. So, yeah, I can see how, like your sister who's how many years older than you, like at least a decade, right, yeah, yeah, she would probably have better memories not so awful memories and her memory in general, like when you're that age, things stick with you more. When you're a child, things stick with you but like not as profound, right, or maybe your, your memory is clouded, or or you're remembering parts of it, but not all of it.
Speaker 3:Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, and and um. So he encouraged me to reconnect with her because she was going to authentically share the good things about him too, and she's in the Marshall Islands, and she's in the Marshall Islands and she is the one who, when my son Kai came to the States she is the one who brought him to the States and so we really got to connect in a way that we hadn't connected in a long time, and and we will always have that with each other, yeah, yeah. And so he did encourage me to reach out to her, which I have, was we've had some really beautiful conversation Shut up, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, I love that we can talk about those later.
Speaker 3:Right, and yeah, and, and so you know she's going to do little things Right and it's it's. You know, when I moved here, I was fluent in Marshallese, but I moved here around kindergarten time and I was behind and so, um, I focused primarily on my English and then I forgot a lot of that stuff and it didn't get. No one kept up with it with me and so it went by the wayside, um. But he said that it's in me and so if I just start working on it, it's going to come to me, um, and that I needed to start, and you know, working on it also with Kai, and you know, and he said, you know, don't? You don't have to learn like sentences, but learn how to say like I love you, and learn and do that stuff with Kai, because I'm going to talk through Kai to you.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, oh shit he's got. You've got Tony's mother speaking through Kai, who's Italian Right. Your dad speaking through Kai, who's Marshallese. This kid is going to be powerful.
Speaker 3:I know, and, and you know, tony's mother encouraged us to Tony's Italian, to really change the way we do Christmas and incorporate Italian recipes. And then my dad is saying that we need to incorporate Marshallese custom and Marshallese traditions through food, and you know things like that. So our holidays this year are going to be so different. It's going to be like we're going to marsh Italian it up. Yeah, I know that's what invite me. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I know we have no traditions over here.
Speaker 3:I know, so we're going to be having a family only Like.
Speaker 1:I'm totally fine, with that too.
Speaker 3:No, we're going to be having pasta and rice and bagogi and all of the things I love that.
Speaker 3:So, um, and so I got to ask my dad questions, and one of the questions that I asked was because I don't have memories, really, of him. I have some memories, but they're not great memories. And I asked, I said how do you remember me, like what, like what do you remember about me? And it adds up. But he said that I was always a helper, and so if I saw my mom said I was trying to help her through like those feelings and I wanted to make people feel better.
Speaker 1:Oh, my God.
Speaker 3:The other thing that he said was his favorite memories with me were when we were in water. Oh my God, t H O happening right now, and that just it made me happy, that, like I've always felt connected to water and his memory of us when we had these positive moments with each other, like that we have that connecting piece together and I didn't even realize that we had that connecting piece.
Speaker 1:And now I have that with my son. You do, and it was happening before. You even knew that. I even knew that yeah, the videos and the pictures that you have of you and Kai in the ocean and on the beach and in the water, and they're my favorite, incredible that it's like happening for you and I'm putting these puzzle pieces together like it.
Speaker 3:Yes, the mushrooms were a piece, but then, seeing Jenny, those were pieces, puzzle pieces getting put together too.
Speaker 1:That's what I think I'm I mean when I talk about how integration comes in so many different ways, and integration means just to like, connect or make it one with your life, and there are all these ways to integrate, and I think that it shows up in ways that are unexpected, and for that to be another piece of the puzzle for you has to be like incredibly healing, so healing.
Speaker 3:And also, you know, there were a lot of times growing up and a lot of times growing up, you know, in a very rural town and again, there's no diversity. You are the only person of color. I hate saying this, but it's true. There were a lot of times in my life where I was embarrassed to be different and felt a lot of shame that of where I come from, where this transformation were. Now I'm like super fucking proud. I'm super proud of like where I come from and my ancestors, and I can't wait to learn about my culture and my people and wear it as a badge of honor. And I don't know, I'm just Because you have a.
Speaker 3:You have a son who's also Marshallese, and I think that's like which which, by the way, we talked about this in the car on our way home from Indianapolis, and a lot of people don't know this. I had a miscarriage before Kai came into my life. Nothing crazy, just a miscarriage.
Speaker 1:Fully had a plan to try again and then I got a message, you say nothing crazy like it was it a big deal? But I know it was a big deal yeah it was.
Speaker 3:It was very traumatic. I mean not a big deal or like you were just gonna.
Speaker 1:You were gonna try again.
Speaker 3:Yes, but I think people assume with adoption that something is wrong with you, I see what you're saying.
Speaker 1:like you can't conceive, or that is a big and I hate that.
Speaker 3:That's the thought that maybe people go to, because, even if it's true, it doesn't even matter, right? But I got a message about Kai four weeks later. He came to the States, but Kai came on my due date and I don't think a lot of people know that.
Speaker 1:Like he came to the US on your due date.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he came to the US on my due date.
Speaker 1:And that's not a coincidence?
Speaker 3:No, it's not, and that kid is me. But that kid is that the thing I love about that? You talk about how L is you, but L is you in a safe environment, yeah, where she gets to be able to express that. So she's gonna be no offense, but like a better version of you because she's getting a head start.
Speaker 1:I've said that a hundred times, yeah, no offense taken. And I'm thinking the way that you're saying this right now and just hearing like even your dad saying he wanted to be a better person but didn't know how, and you think about how many people probably feel that way but can't get out of their water.
Speaker 3:I think a lot of a lot of people who have a lot of trauma from their parents and there's a lot of and I'm I am definitely guilty of this too so they have a lot of trauma from their parents and they don't even realize it, but they're doing the exact same thing to their own children, hundred percent.
Speaker 1:It's hard to see because, because you're not experiencing it as a child, you're experiencing it as the grown adult. The triggered adult. So it's hard to see. I think that the world would just be a better place if you saw everyone. As a small child. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because we're all just like wounded children walking around in adult bodies. But I think there's something to be said for you leaving where you were, removing yourself, getting taken from the Marshall not taken from the Marshall Islands, but like removed from the Marshall Islands and then removed from your hometown. And I kind of did the same thing, like I was never in the same place for more than a few years, and when I met my husband I was like there's nothing holding me here, I'm out. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm out and we had this opportunity to get ourselves out of the polluted water and didn't even realize that that's what we were doing. So it was.
Speaker 1:I don't want to say it was easier for us to heal, because it was like extremely fucking hard. But when you can remove yourself from the unhealthy environment and whether that's family, friends, your, you know environment as far as where you live like if you have that opportunity to remove yourself from it, it feels like you can breathe. Yeah, and I can see how maybe your dad wasn't given that opportunity and never got a chance to breathe.
Speaker 3:That was the other thing that she said is that the medium is that my dad was saying he was around a lot of the wrong people and it was hard for him to get out of it and I'm now really empathetic towards that and there has been a piece of forgiving him essentially and having compassion for the fact that he probably really struggled. He really loved us.
Speaker 1:I never in a million years would have thought I'd heard you say this. Even like when you told me this afterwards I was like we're gonna have to scrap the whole first season of our podcast because this is. But I also love that we are able to like, share, like our journeys in real time, like we are learning as we go just like everyone else, and we're owning when we are wrong and we're owning when we make mistakes, and I love that, because no one can hold that against you, because you're like oh, I know, I said those things.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and trust me, no one has punished me more than I've punished myself. Yeah, same for you, I'm sure. Yeah, so you know I've. You can't hold anything against me because I own everything.
Speaker 1:Right, even like if you're like well, that's not how you used to be, like I know, I know that. Yeah, I know I used to be different.
Speaker 3:Sometimes people are like oh, you used to be so judgmental about people who use drugs and I'm like you're right, totally, absolutely, I own it, but I was wrong. Yeah, I was wrong, all right, my bad. So the other thing is, tony was with me during my session with Jenny and there is a picture I have posted.
Speaker 1:I love that you would are like this was like a thing Planting seeds.
Speaker 3:Literal breadcrumbs yeah, there were little literal breadcrumbs and I just I figured it out. Like a few months ago I found this random picture of myself and it's my fourth birthday and I'm sitting at my kitchen table like screening, from like ear to ear, I'm getting ready to blow out my candles and my dad is behind me and he's wearing a t-shirt that says Tony.
Speaker 1:I remember when you found that and you were like what the fuck?
Speaker 3:And Tony will come on eventually on the podcast. But for those who don't know Tony, he is my safe space. He is he and I'm not trying to make this sound weird. He has healed a lot of mother and father wounds that I've had.
Speaker 3:He takes care of you, not like in a weird way, but how we talk about like the divine feminine and divine masculine Right. He is very nurturing, he is very protective of me, he's very loyal, he is just. He's just a good man and a good man who grew up, you know, had a good childhood and had like great parents and loving parents and he really got this. His trauma is the fact that they are not here anymore. That's his really big trauma, but he is just really stable and and and he's very grounding for me and he he was very much so what I needed. And so healing and healing while I've been with him has like I've, I've learned to be soft and vulnerable and Leah and my best friend Amanda have experienced this where it's like I, when we stayed at the hotel for a concert.
Speaker 3:When I'm with Tony, it's like I turn into a little baby. Yes, but when I'm with other people, other people don't see that. They see like, oh, christine, she's just this hard ass bitch. And like blah, blah, blah. With Tony, I'm a child, I'm an actual child. I so this, my water bottle. That's not a water bottle, it's a Baba. I actually say that. I will say can you go fill out my Baba? He is very doting on me and I give him things too. I don't want it to be like I know it probably sounds like this very one sided thing he's. He's healing a lot of childhood wounds by how nurturing he is for me.
Speaker 1:Well, and because a divine masculine is supposed to be like protective and provider, but also these other things like that's not all right, they do right, right, like they should be a safe place for you to express yourself and express your feelings and express your emotions. So he's just a very, very he's a divine masculine.
Speaker 3:Yes, he's the one who is? The one who has encouraged me to heal for my childhood, for sure yeah. So okay. So I was like I forgot where I was going with that. So Tony is amazing. So anyways this picture. When I was visiting with the medium, I said can my dad explain this picture where he is wearing this shirt that says Tony, and can you tell me what he thinks about Tony? And my dad said, well, yeah, I sent him for you. I sent him for you because he was nothing like me.
Speaker 1:Oh my god he was the dad you needed and not in a weird way Like I know what. I know what you mean. Yeah, I think our listeners will know what you mean, my god, I hope so.
Speaker 3:I mean not my dad, he's my daddy, but you know.
Speaker 1:But how many of us needed that as children? Yeah, like a nurturing father, a nurturing mother, and didn't get that like. That's why we have these mother and father wounds in the first place. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:So it's also to been very healing for me to raise a child with him and watch this child, who is like me and is has problems with his temper and has a very big personality and is very childlike yeah, he's just, he's just like. You know how Austin is just like a little boy. Yeah, he's just a kid. Yeah, he's just, he's so kid, very child, very childlike.
Speaker 1:If you had to like in your head, imagine what like an 11 year old boy would be like. Like he is that, yeah, yeah, like same thing with Kai, untouched by trauma. Yes, like just this, like what he should be innocence.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like pure innocence which.
Speaker 1:I want to say what he said the other day watching the movie, but I don't want to take away from your story.
Speaker 1:Oh, ok, ok, yeah, tell me a second, I also think too you know, remember we've said before how sometimes it's hard to watch our partners be good dads. Yeah, because there's a part of us that like wishes we had that, oh my gosh. And there's like a little bit of jealousy there and this is just, this is natural, like this is normal to feel that, because I think I'll always feel that sometimes I think so too, and watching my husband with my daughter especially, I was like Jesus Christ, if I had had that, I wouldn't be as fucked up as I am. I'm not fucked up, but you know what I mean. Yeah, but I think we do have that, it's just not it doesn't look like what we thought it would.
Speaker 1:We have these men in our lives, who we really needed, who we needed, who provided safety for us when we needed it and stability when we needed it, and it's showing up in an energy, and that father-like energy. I don't turn into a little baby the way you do but, I have to remind myself that, like he, the things that he does for Elle he's also learning. He's learning that I need those things too.
Speaker 3:Well, and you were so in your feminine Right.
Speaker 1:Where I was so in my masculine, so like me being a baby is so not what you would expect from you, but it's so what I need. Maybe me behind closed doors, maybe my alter ego with Jason is dominatrix, ooh, ooh, snm, baby, damn, I need to like get my inner badass.
Speaker 3:No, but it's also incredibly healing to watch a child that is very similar to you Get love the way they needed to be loved. Yeah. Yeah, but again, two things. Multiple things can exist at the same time. You're loving watching that. You feel this sadness for a little. You, you know, sometimes you feel this sadness that you didn't get those things, but what a gift that you get to provide your children with that. Yeah, and that's beautiful and that's beautiful. Jinx, jinx, again you win. Okay, thanks, thanks, but yeah, that's.
Speaker 1:That's your story.
Speaker 3:That's my story. And I'm sticking to it.
Speaker 1:Six days ago, yes, even a week ago, that this happened for you. Yes. So what I am incredibly excited about is because you aren't even done processing it.
Speaker 3:No. And I just thought two days ago.
Speaker 1:That we say this to people, because this is like a long process of integrating and understanding and processing, because that night, even when you texted me and just said you were done, you were like but I can't talk about it yet. And I was like, well, yeah, no shit, like don't talk about it, like get some sleep.
Speaker 3:But even I was just like, even just trying to have a regular conversation with you, I'm like my brain is not working. Leah, I don't know.
Speaker 1:It's hard to human after that.
Speaker 3:But even though the experience was incredibly profound and incredibly healing, feeling all of that trauma took everything out of me. Do you remember when we? I think I sweat and I sobbed.
Speaker 1:We're not meant to feel all of that at once, like our bodies were not built to feel all of that at once, which is why we developed these like protector parts to like, disassociate and withdraw Hundreds of years of trauma. I don't think you were supposed to feel that You're alive. So thank you, thank God, but like? Could you imagine, like the torture that that would just if one person felt that all the time?
Speaker 3:I think that's why people are scared to do a journey, and it's completely valid and I understand that.
Speaker 1:I get that too.
Speaker 3:I think that's why I like to say that I think everyone could benefit from a journey, but I don't think it's for everyone.
Speaker 1:I love that it's hard work. It is. It's very, very difficult to face your shit, and even because what you're saying, like it's sometimes facing your shit, means facing other people's shit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, and having that realization that like it wasn't yours or? And you're not just the victim. Yeah, you're the villain too, boo, boo, yeah, like you are the villain in other people's stories, and it's completely valid, yeah. And so how are you going to show up in the world? What mark are you going to?
Speaker 1:leave. I sent you this article today. I haven't read it yet. I think we should maybe do an episode on it. Ok, because we say it a lot. What Like? How self-awareness is just the first step, but how there are also different parts of being self-aware. Mm-hmm. Like you don't get to just say like this is just how I am and this is how it's going to be.
Speaker 3:Well, I think a lot of us. We are our own victim in our own story. Yeah, yeah. And it's hard for us to get out of that. Yeah. Because having.
Speaker 1:Well, that feels safe, right. In a weird fucked up way, it feels safe to be the victim, right, because if you have this, I always are everybody else's fault. Realization that you are the bad guy. You know what brings, you know what comes up with that. Shame and guilt, yeah, and those feel much worse. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Than just being sad and the victim. Yeah, feeling shame and guilt is really, really hard. That's why a lot of addicts struggle with the 12 steps, because once they start feeling that like, a lot of people will relapse. Yeah, because that's a lot to feel Shame and guilt. We got a message from someone about our episode that dropped last week the not about the same, it's not about the tomato.
Speaker 1:It's not the tomato and she said something about like there's something about it, but I don't, I can't. I can relate to this and there's a feeling that happens and I can't quite explain it. That just feels good. Did you read that? She was saying that about what she was talking about, how she also has these rage situations with her husband.
Speaker 3:OK.
Speaker 1:And a part of it feels good and she can't quite explain it. And she also struggles to apologize afterwards, even though she knows she was wrong.
Speaker 3:I totally relate to that.
Speaker 1:And I said I think I know what feels good about it. It doesn't just feel good because it's a release. That's one way it feels good. It feels good when it comes out because it's a release. But I would be lying if I said there, if I didn't say this there is a part of it that feels good because it feels powerful. And then when you realize that that's what felt good about it, shame, yeah, instant shame, yeah, instant guilt. Because then I'm like I started I don't think I said this in that episode, but there are parts of it where I was like oh my God, is this, is this what a narcissist feels like?
Speaker 1:Is this how you get stuck like this, because you start treating people like this and it feels powerful and you let it get to your head. I don't want that. I don't want to be that person to someone. I just I don't ever want to feel like I have power over someone, ever, yeah. So that was like an instant, like oh shit, this is not right, this is not OK. But I just had this realization.
Speaker 3:What? So? You know, I struggled with bulimia because I felt out of control and I felt very powerless in an abusive situation. So my trauma response is your, your flight. I'm fight. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And fight is where I felt like I had my power back, because it was like I'm not going to be scared of you, you're going to be scared of me, and so that's my trauma response. So when we were in Indianapolis at the, at the concert we're heading, we're walking back to our hotel and we're across the street we were crossing the street like drones of people leaving this concert.
Speaker 1:At the same time, yeah, crossing a main road, right Stoplight, where there's also like a traffic person telling what are they called Like a traffic conductor and a cop.
Speaker 3:Yeah, telling people to walk across the street.
Speaker 1:Even when there was a green light, and it's their directing traffic.
Speaker 3:And another reason why I go into fight mode to I want to stress is that I don't want to see other people get hurt. Yeah.
Speaker 3:I felt like in situations I didn't get protected, and so when that fight response kicks in sometimes it's I'm trying to protect somebody else that I feel like is getting bullied, abused. I don't want people to feel like how I felt. Yeah, so anyways, this track traffic is supposed to be stopped. We're walking across the street and right behind us this car is starting to move because he's wanting to turn, but the problem is, is there's people walking, so he's like starting to like try to like run over them.
Speaker 1:This was in front of us. Oh, was it in front? Oh yeah.
Speaker 3:It was in front of us.
Speaker 1:It was in front of us, like literally, like we're walking up and the car is like we're almost in front of the car and the car is like rolling into traffic, walking traffic, running over the people in front of us. Yes, like he's going really slow, but he's like purposely hitting these people, right, right. So what do you do? Well, at first I was like what the fuck? And then I turn around and I see like okay, the traffic person is like going up to their window and everybody's stopping and like hitting the car, like what the fuck, dude, get off of this person. Like. And then I just keep walking. I'm like they got it, they got it under control, and I keep walking, we're walking and I'm we're like I don't even know how far ahead, and we're like oh shit, where's Christine? We turn around, you're nowhere to be found. And I like had to stop and wait and I was like fuck, she was back there, ready, ready to fight this guy who was running over us, right.
Speaker 3:Because and I think that will always be a part of me yeah, but there is good, it was so fucked up though it was. Everybody's like dude. I think I will always have this protective spirit. Yeah Right, but there was this good cop, bad cop on my shoulder. What were you doing when?
Speaker 1:you went back, when you stayed back processing how I was going to handle this Were you like trying to like punch in his window?
Speaker 3:No, I, I guess my thought, like my thought process, is like the gut reaction is like how are you going to protect these people? Yeah, Bitch, you're not a cop, you're also not a car, you're also not a car You're also like, but there wasn't there, like when that trauma response kicks in.
Speaker 1:There's no thinking.
Speaker 3:And adrenaline goes right through. I'm not scared. You could be a seven foot tall, 300 pound man and I'm going to still talk shit to you and talk like we're about to do good out and I'm not going to be scared. And so I think you know, sometimes in those situations, if I, if it is a man on the other side, they're probably like this fucking delusional bitch. But it was. It was this like I had to stop myself and be like this is not your, this is not your, this is not your fight, when I turned around and I saw that the cops had it under control.
Speaker 3:So I was like all right, they got this Right, but it was fucked up. But like they got this Absolutely. But I have to like in those moments, stop yeah, and not just go with what my gut wants me to do. Right, and I have to think about it and be like it's okay, they will handle it.
Speaker 3:You have to know when to fight, and I'm gonna probably always work on that, yeah, but if there were a situation with you and if I felt like you were in danger, that would immediately be like my go-to, without even a thought, without even feeling scared, it would just.
Speaker 1:Immediately.
Speaker 3:Protective instinct kicks right in.
Speaker 1:I feel like mine would be Do I say something? Do I do something? Is this my place to do anything? And you're immediately like no, it's my place to do something. And then you have to talk yourself like is it my place to do something? Do I say something? Do I need to?
Speaker 3:fight this fight Right, because my initial reaction is to go fight a fucking bear.
Speaker 1:That's why it took me so long to decide whether or not I'd stand up and do something about a situation I haven't talked about on this podcast.
Speaker 3:Is it what I think you? Yeah?
Speaker 1:I'm not gonna talk about it yet, okay, because we're still in it and we're not on the other side of it. But yeah, it was why I had such a hard time. Is this where I speak up?
Speaker 3:Is this where I fight back? Yeah, and so me in those situations.
Speaker 1:You would have been speaking up so long ago.
Speaker 3:Well also. But I'm like can I go with you? Oh right, can I come with you Right and be your bodyguard, like that's.
Speaker 1:You and I have one other person who texts me once a week. Do you need me to go with you tonight? Do you need me to go with you tonight? And every time I'm like no, I'm good, but maybe I should take you guys up on it one time if it continues to happen. We'll talk about that one day.
Speaker 1:But where I was going with the rage and the shame thing. The second I realized that that might be how an abuser or a narcissist feels powerful was the second I was able to apologize and say I am so sorry I ever made you feel that way. I had to feel that rage and I had to feel the shame and I had to feel the guilt. And it took me a minute because in the beginning that feeling was like see, it worked and you never got to express your anger. It worked, didn't it? I may have gotten angry, but at least you heard what I had to say. It took me a minute to feel that rage or the anger and the shame and the guilt, and when that hit I was like oh, Well, give yourself some grace for that, because you like raged out four times.
Speaker 3:I know when I'm like. I can't tell you how many times where I was like yeah, fuck, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, when someone in our TikTok was like this has been happening to me for a year and I was like a year, Like it's happened four times for me, total in my 39 years of existence.
Speaker 1:I've raged four times, yeah, but I just want to say this, and I will keep you guys updated I am in my Ludial phase right now and I've been crying a lot. I sent you a photo yesterday like sobbing. I'm crying a lot, but like, we're like, we're like on, we're on defense, we're in defense mode right now. Like my husband knows, I'm in Ludial phase. Like I know, I'm in Ludial phase and we're just like all right, so we're just, we're going to be on guard. Okay, oh my.
Speaker 3:God, I thought I favorited it, but I didn't. What was it? It makes?
Speaker 3:me so sad. It was one of your text messages to me and I was like this fucking bitch, um, here I got it. Okay. So one, this was a good one, as I was traveling my intercresce today I was visually. I seen myself standing in front of them and not trying so hard to avoid them, which I love that I saved that. But the other one if they catch me in my Ludial phase, it's not going to be pretty. And I was like God lover. I was being serious, I know, but even when you talk shit you're like.
Speaker 1:when you talk shit, I'm like oh my God, oh God love you, my best friend who has seen me like in high school, like have to fight people, and in college have to fight people. And let me just rephrase that because I got jumped both times. But like the situations where I had to defend myself, I defend myself and it's funny Because that is something I would I would be like bitch, I'm in my Ludial phase and then everybody behind me would be like what the fuck? Yeah, I literally would say that because I just don't think things through like that and I remember walking in on a boyfriend, literally with another girl and walking out and being like have fun licking my leftovers, like I just don't your brain doesn't operate that way.
Speaker 1:No, I'm like literally like the lint liquor commercial. Like that's me when I'm you, cootie queen.
Speaker 3:You lint, liquor, lint, liquor, mother trucker, mother trucker, where I? I never started violence, but I ended it and I have like broken bones Okay.
Speaker 1:I just want to say, like that's not me raging. By the way, the me raging was terrifying. Yeah, that wasn't that yeah.
Speaker 3:So you're saying, if you were the way you rage with Jason, I would have.
Speaker 1:Oh, if anybody saw that in person, you wouldn't have laughed, you would have been cowering in a corner. Wow, no, you probably would have fought me for him.
Speaker 3:Honestly, Don't talk to Jason that way. How dare you?
Speaker 1:talk to Jason that way.
Speaker 3:Literally. I probably would have been like you need to tone it down, but he kind of deserves it. I don't know if I would have been like I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 1:I don't want anybody to ever have to see that again, like I don't want that to happen. It was like hulking out. I was literally like hulking out. I don't know, yeah, but I don't like how it made me feel afterwards.
Speaker 3:I don't think I never liked how it made me feel either. But in the moment again, I do. I do understand the feeling power, but it after that it doesn't feel good. No, there is a lot of shame and guilt. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think a lot of people are numb to that, to that, though, like they feed off of it. That's the scary thing. That's how you know like you're in like dangerous territory.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I also liked that people were intimidated by me and like didn't want to fuck with me because they were intimidated by me. We're now, you know, like that's not. It's not a flex, christine. It felt like a flex. I love how opposite we are.
Speaker 1:I do too. I fucking love it. I do too.
Speaker 3:I think it's good and I think it's. You know, if people relate to you and I think people relate to me, I feel like sometimes not as many people relate to me because I feel like not as many women are as like, fucking.
Speaker 1:I don't know, you get a lot of private DMs too. You get a lot of private DMs.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's true, I feel like the anger, like an angry woman who like kicks people's ass is like. I feel like it's a little bit more rare, but I don't know. Yeah, there should be a little bit of balance in there but okay, we're like done An hour in, we're done Bye.
Speaker 1:I'm just excited for you to continue to learn from that experience.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and if there are any people who have experience with breathwork and want to send me recommendations my way, I would love that, but that's the modality that's really resonated with me, besides psychedelics.
Speaker 1:Well, you know that they say like you can do this, like you can have a psychedelic journey without doing psychedelics, by doing breathwork and deprivation tanks and like things like that. I love it. Yeah, all right.
Speaker 3:Thank you for letting me share my story.
Speaker 1:I was literally just going to say thank you for sharing that, because I've been like dying to know for like six days and I thank you, jenny, thank you so much Jenny. For another beautiful life.
Speaker 3:What a beautiful person.
Speaker 1:She's the real fucking deal, man.
Speaker 3:Dude, she's legit as fuck.
Speaker 1:She made a believer out of you.
Speaker 3:Well, that, and Tony was like oh, mediums are fucking quacks, jason, is still that?
Speaker 1:still that way, I'm still working on it because I think Jason's experience with his father is a lot like yours.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:Left at an early age only knew bad things from one person yes. When he passed away, started hearing different stories yes. So I think it would be. I don't even put that out there, I'm just saying like I think he needs something like that, I agree.
Speaker 3:I think it'd be very healing for him, and he doesn't even realize it.
Speaker 1:I didn't even know it, because he still thinks mediums are quacks.
Speaker 3:Well, let's fuck them up with some more woo woo shit. Why don't we? Let's fuck them up.
Speaker 1:All right To our listeners. We will talk to you guys next week. Stay curious, Be open. See you on the other side. Bye.