See You On The Other Side

58 | It’s Not About the Tomato…or Barbie

August 07, 2023 Leah & Christine Season 2 Episode 58
See You On The Other Side
58 | It’s Not About the Tomato…or Barbie
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Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Never in a million years would Leah have thought a movie about Barbie would trigger so many deep-seated emotions and also serve as help in a current relationship pattern. We talk about the real life lessons she took away from the movie (NO SPOILERS) and how there are two ways to see the film. We also delve deeper into the portrayal of feminism and why it's not just about women’s empowerment but a reflection of egalitarian principles.

A major part of our dialogue revolves around the divine feminine and masculine energies, and their role in shaping our 'self' and our relationships. We examine the transition from a wounded to a healing state, shedding light on self-awareness as the cornerstone of healing. From managing anger, rage and vulnerability, navigating the tough terrain of apologies, to dealing with resentment in relationships, we bare it all. Our personal experiences and realizations are interwoven throughout this conversation, making it as real as it gets.

Finally, we navigate the crucial aspects of understanding different perspectives, fostering vulnerability in relationships, and embracing change. We emphasize the importance of expressing our desires, and dissect how childhood experiences can cast a shadow on our present relationships. With healthier communication patterns and an understanding of the interplay of wounded and divine feminine and masculine energies, we believe healing and balance can be achieved in relationships. So, tune in for an episode packed with insightful, life-changing revelations you don't want to miss.

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Speaker 1:

All right, let's go, let's get started. Yeah, what's today's episode about?

Speaker 2:

I don't know it's about a lot of things.

Speaker 1:

I feel like we got hung up on the friend stuff for a little bit, and not in a bad way. I don't think that we were like saying the same thing twice, but it was like a continuation.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

You know, but today, like last week, last, like literally a week and a half ago, I said to you there was something going on that I wanted to open up about. I think I was ready to open up about it, Remember, yeah? And then two days later I went and I watched the Barbie movie.

Speaker 2:

And did you sob, I haven't seen it, yet I did.

Speaker 1:

I mean, did I cry?

Speaker 2:

Did I cry Do?

Speaker 1:

I have ADHD. Does a bear shit in the woods. Yeah, I mean yes. I cried.

Speaker 2:

I love it when you cry sometimes because I know it's coming. You do this swallow.

Speaker 1:

I do, I do, and it's not like I'm trying to hold it back, it's just like I can feel it Like. It's like a throw up.

Speaker 2:

No, but wouldn't feel it coming up when you do your swallow, I am thinking in my head oh, it's coming out, here she goes, here she goes.

Speaker 1:

But it's interesting to me how we said this in an episode Actually, we did say it in the last episode how, like sometimes things come to me when I'm ready for them, you know, like the book, reading it again and being able to read it through a different lens. I feel like I watched that movie when I was supposed to and it was a continuation of what I was struggling with last week that I told you I was ready to talk about. But I was able to see a different side of it after watching the movie and it was like, oh, this was the lesson. And so I am not going to give away spoilers, please don't. I think if you have been living under a rock. I will say that this movie came out last week. It was a Barbie movie and everyone's losing their ever loving minds and like it is all over the place.

Speaker 2:

I know it's really like I have not seen the movie, but you know, just through social media it's funny to watch how triggered people are getting from it.

Speaker 1:

But you know what I think it is Like. I've noticed a trend and this will probably trigger some people too, but I have noticed that there are two ways to watch this movie, and that's with anything really Like you're either watching it through an unhealed lens or a healed lens, and so I remember reaching out to a friend that night because she was supposed to be watching the next night. I was like you got to, I don't want to give anything away, but I want you to text me after you watch this movie because I want to talk about it so bad and I can't because we had early access and like the movie hadn't even come out yet and I'm like I need to know that I'm not crazy and that other people are seeing this the way that I'm seeing it, and she did, but she's very much in this like field space too. So I'm realizing a lot of the people who are triggered by it are unhealed men, unhealed women.

Speaker 2:

So can you. But can you kind of give the perspective on why it's triggering to an unhealed man and why it's triggering to an unhealed women, because I think the lens is different even between the both of those?

Speaker 1:

Very true, and yes, I can, because I'm not giving away any of the spoilers. And that's what I meant by like if you've been living under a rock, like yeah, I mean, this is all over everything. Right now. There's like openheimer versus Barbie. We're both wearing pink. I just say, and look at your pink and my pink. We have different. We did not even plan this, yes, you are.

Speaker 2:

You are, leah is very. We both love pink, but Leah is very blush, subtle pink. Yeah, and I am loud in your face, I love neon pink.

Speaker 1:

I love a neon pink, I just prefer my blushes.

Speaker 2:

And I prefer my Nia.

Speaker 1:

I do love neon when I'm tan though.

Speaker 2:

Well, I'm always tan.

Speaker 1:

You're always tan. I am not. I am a. I am tan three months out of the year. That's it. So the thing that I am seeing, a lot of, a lot of it's in conservative Christian men and women, maybe not even Christian. I don't even want to put it in a box, but there's a lot of people saying this is feminist and it is like anti man and woman, man hater, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And the way that I saw it through my lens and this is my perspective and I know that, like art is up, is an interpretation right the way I saw that movie and the way that I have talked with other people who are kind of in this healing space saw that movie was very much not feminism as we know it, but probably feminism as it should be, which is empowering to men and not angry at men.

Speaker 2:

It's probably how feminine feminism never has been. Yes, it's never been this way.

Speaker 1:

Or maybe it started out that way and it turned into something more.

Speaker 2:

I don't know.

Speaker 1:

You might be right. I'm just saying or either, or I don't know. But you know, we've never done an episode on feminism, so I kind of want to talk about it a little bit, because I consider myself like a feminist.

Speaker 2:

Well, the definition of feminism Okay, give it to me is men and women having equal rights. Ah okay, that's the actual. Let me get up. I'm pretty sure that's the fact. Check that real quick.

Speaker 1:

So I'm not saying that the movie isn't a feminist movie or a movie for feminist or feminine movie.

Speaker 2:

Feminist of equality of both sexes.

Speaker 1:

But I think the way that we interpret it and the way that we've seen it and the reason I am not like yeah, I'm a feminist, yeah, I'm a feminist, is because what I have seen from it is very angry. And I am woman, hear me roar, and nothing wrong with that. I do think that's great. That is great. And like power to the pussy and fuck men we don't need men. Fuck the patriarchy, which I also agree with that, but not like the we don't need men. Part Like fuck the patriarchy, yeah, but it's very angry. It has a very angry energy behind it.

Speaker 2:

I was that angry feminist.

Speaker 1:

Totally. But how many times? And this is where I'm going to take this how many times have you told me and you have said in this podcast, you were too far in your masculine?

Speaker 2:

Yes, and I kind of want to just elaborate on that. I grew up with a single mom who is very in her masculine and so I grew up with not a male figure, a positive male figure, not a male figure at all, and it was. I don't need men, I'll do it myself. So even though I looked, you know, for love and attention from other men, I was still very angry at men. Yeah, I still had this very much fuck you mentality. So my healing has been getting into my feminine and learning to be vulnerable and learning, like with with Tony, my fiance, to feel safe, like I'm safe and I'm okay and he is going to protect me and he is going to provide for me, but I also do things for him. Like there is a balance, there's a recipe. How do you say that?

Speaker 1:

A reciprocation.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, and that's, I think, what I mean, like, but when I was, in my masculine.

Speaker 2:

it didn't work because he wanted to do certain things for me and I would not let him. I was very headstrong and very like I don't need you and he's the first safe man I've ever had in my life. And you're still like. I still don't need you, but it was hard. It took time for me to get out of that and it took time for me to really acknowledge that. one, there was a problem. Two, I needed to heal. And three, like then, we had to maneuver our relationship in a different way because I was different and because I was different and I started to heal. Then he started to heal. Yeah, but we'll get into that.

Speaker 1:

We'll totally get into that. So the last time my husband and I did MDMA together, he was talking about divine feminine. He was, he was.

Speaker 2:

He was Okay, Jason, pop off.

Speaker 1:

I know, and I was like, okay, and he was like I think that you were two in your feminine.

Speaker 2:

Yes, and it scared me, you were.

Speaker 1:

And I was, because I absolutely was. I was that like, take care of me and I'm a baby and not really a baby, but like I did not defend myself, I did not stand up for myself, I was very submissive, I was not empowered, and I think that there has to be a balance of both, of both in a relationship, but also within yourself, because now I do have these masculine qualities, and when I say feminine and masculine, we are talking about like. I need you guys to Google the difference between like not feminist as we know it, not feminine feminism as we know it, but like what a divine feminine is versus what a divine masculine is and those qualities. Can you look up at that real quick? Because it is very hard to find a divine masculine who is also in touch with his feminine side, because there has to be equal parts in both.

Speaker 2:

Right. We all like. We both have feminine and masculine, and men have masculine and feminine, and it's okay. People think that it's an insult, but it's not.

Speaker 1:

I think they think they're like thinking of the definition of feminism or feminist Right. So when Feminine doesn't mean my husband goes around, like wearing pink or you know, wearing thongs or panties, and even if you did, who fucking cares? But like feminine energy and feminine power, is he's able to be vulnerable, and he is. He allows himself to be taken care of in ways that, like a divine, feminine can take care of him.

Speaker 2:

So you were two in your feminine yes and you were two in your masculine. So a wounded feminine.

Speaker 1:

Oh yeah, okay, let's talk about this the wounded feminine versus divine feminine.

Speaker 2:

Wounded, feminine, insecure, needy, yes, codependent, manipulative.

Speaker 1:

I would say unconsciously, yes Inauthentic, yes, absolutely.

Speaker 2:

Over-emotional. No, yes, and the victim All six baby.

Speaker 1:

I counted seven, but I was all of those Shootin' hundred shootin' a hundred okay, 10 for 10.

Speaker 2:

Now the divine feminine Okay, intuitive yes, grounded yes, receptive yes. Reflective yes, strong yes, boundaries yes. Empathetic yes, compassionate yes, magnetic yes, supportive yes, vulnerable. Authentic flows through life effortlessly Surrendered, open, trusting, creative Okay.

Speaker 1:

Hold on, though I will say. Sometimes I fall back into the wounded feminine. Sure listen, but like I am more of the divine feminine than I was the wounded.

Speaker 2:

But what do we always say?

Speaker 1:

We're healing, not healed, Not healed okay.

Speaker 2:

Mine Wounded masculine.

Speaker 1:

Wounded masculine. Let's hear it Aggressive, oh y'all.

Speaker 2:

Controlling, yes. Withdraws, totally, yes. Avoids, did you? Yeah, yeah with men, yes for sure, okay, okay yeah. Cause, if, if, if I were to get in a fight with somebody I was in a relationship with, I would be like okay, we're done, put on that mask. Hyper independent female. Fuck you guys. Oh, hell yeah, okay, or you went the complete opposite.

Speaker 1:

Yes, you're right.

Speaker 2:

Too competitive, yeah, abusive, unstable. Let's just certainly consider myself abusive, but I am very aggressive, divine, masculine, deeply present, doesn't judge, supportive, has discipline, focused, logical, confident, protective, honest, accountable. Has integrity, humble boundaries Wow Boundaries on both Interesting. Offers stability and security. That's on both and responsible.

Speaker 1:

The stability and security was that on both of them, I feel like it was.

Speaker 2:

But boundaries was.

Speaker 1:

Interesting.

Speaker 2:

So again, we have qualities that are masculine and qualities that are feminine.

Speaker 1:

There's no way around that.

Speaker 2:

There is no way around that. Everybody does. Everyone does.

Speaker 1:

I think we fight sometimes the other energy.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

And I think we have an interview scheduled with someone who we wanted to talk to this about, about, like Sam, yeah. We'll just go ahead and say it Okay About the difference between a wounded and healed or healing masculine and a wounded feminine and a healing feminine, yeah, so let me get back to the story. Let's backtrack a little bit, because that's what I want everybody to know that, like I am looking at this through that lens, knowing what it means to be a divine feminine energy and knowing what it means to be in both my feminine and my masculine and empowering myself in both of those things. And oh, and, in this conversation on MDMA, like that we're having, like we Google it and we're looking at it and we're talking about it just the way that you and I were. And he used to say he said something to me one time about Aubrey Marcus being like too far in his feminine. No, he was like I'm never gonna be an Aubrey Marcus, I'm never gonna know what to say when you're like super, like emotional. I'm not that feminine. I can't be that feminine Because he's like Aubrey Marcus is in his feminine, yeah, and he's like that'll never be me. I'm starting to see like little bits of that happening in our relationship, but I think it's because I am also working on those parts of myself.

Speaker 2:

And maybe you're getting a little bit more in your masculine Right. So he is able to get into his feminine. Yes, you are able to. Well, we'll go into it, but you are able to do a better job of holding space for him, so he is allowed to be vulnerable. Yes, because that is something that is can be incredibly hard for a man. Yes, and I never saw it that way. I just saw it through my own lens, not through Tony's lens too.

Speaker 1:

It's hard to do that. Sure, you've gotta really sit with that emotion and with that other person in order to be able to see and hear what they see in here, you know. So I guess I'm gonna. I don't wanna throw myself under a bus here, but I'm gonna talk about the thing that I said I was ready to talk about and why. You know this, I've known, you've known this about me, and it's something that I have kind of kept away from our listeners because there's a lot of shame and guilt around it. But, like the last probably five months, there have been situations where I have let myself get out of control and rage. Okay, what do you mean by that? Well, it's interesting because I'm like listening to something completely separate about integrands and it's talking about how, like a lot of times, people who seem like they never get angry and even heard it in a podcast with Gabor Maté- and. Steven Bartlett same thing. Like the people who seem like they never get angry, it's because they're suppressing it and anger is there. They are just stuffing it. They don't allow themselves to feel it and anger is also an incredibly healthy emotion.

Speaker 2:

I think the problem is how, what we do with it, and if we suppress it, it's gonna come out eventually, and it's gonna come out probably pretty ugly.

Speaker 1:

And how is it right? How is it gonna come out? Who is it gonna come out on? How are you gonna reel that back in? This has never, ever happened before. So I'm saying this because there's been like a lot of shame and a lot of guilt around it, and you know this. Like we sat down here in like fucking cried about it, cause I'm like what the fuck is wrong with me? Which there's nothing wrong with? you there's nothing. And I'm starting to like realize like what was happening. When I would rage, it would be over a situation that we have fought over before and I'm like am I going fucking nuts? Like I've voiced this before, I have said this before and I've even tried to like dumb it down in a way. That's like if I tell you you're stepping on my toes in a nice way and you pull, and you like don't hear me. And then I'm like screaming get off my toes, get off my toes, get off my toes. Like if I have to scream it for you to hear me, like I don't want to do that, I want you to hear me the first time. But I would rage, as in I would throw things, I would break things, I would scream. And when it happens like it was, like I wasn't able to stop it, it felt good, like scary good.

Speaker 2:

I mean, it probably felt good, cause you're actually just getting it out.

Speaker 1:

But I also, when it would happen, I would watch him shut down and be like I'm really sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm really sorry and I'm like okay, he heard me. This was my mentality the first time it happened. I was like I had to do that in order for him to hear what I was saying. I hated that. I did that, but he had to hear it and that was the only way he would hear it, which you've said that to me too. Yes, I don't like that. I hate that. I'm like it shouldn't have to get that way. And then it happened again about a month later. I should also add that every time this has happened, it's been like in my luteal phase of my period, where, like you're extremely on edge and highly emotional. So it's almost like that added layer of like what the fuck?

Speaker 2:

I love when that happens, and then you get your period like two days later and you're like, oh, that makes so much sense.

Speaker 1:

Literally like every time I would be like that checks, that checks. So then the second time it happened, same thing. It was just like I don't wanna have to get to this point, but also like what the fuck is wrong with me that I am letting myself get to this point. And then I started journaling and we went to that embodiment circle where she talked about being the good girl and being afraid of her anger. The first time she felt it and I was like, oh my God, that's what's happening, like I have suppressed anger for so long, your entire life, my entire life that it's coming out in these spurts when it shouldn't be that big of a deal. It was coming out over little things. So I thought, and it made sense, like I journaled about it, I was like I don't think I'm really this angry. I think it's just realizing that his anger always trumped mine and their anger always trumped mine and anytime I would voice my anger or feel angry, someone else would get angrier and I would be like angered into submission, if that makes any sense.

Speaker 2:

So pre-mushrooms, jason and Leah yes, when you guys would get into a fight or you guys would have a disagreement, he was the one, even though he was probably the one that messed up. Yeah, you would try to voice something to him that upset you and he would just get angry at you, so then you would shut down.

Speaker 1:

And it's almost like the roles reversed. It got to the point where the roles were reversed and that's where I had this realization, because I was always the first to apologize. Always, always, he would fuck up so bad and I would like not want him to sleep in the bedroom and he would go sleep on the couch in the middle of the night. I would go and I would like lay with him and I'd be like I'm sorry, I got mad Every time and that's how we reconnected. Every time, the way I don't know that life. Well, let me tell you what's happened in the last couple of years, since he's gotten sober, is I have a very hard time now apologizing, even when I know I'm wrong.

Speaker 2:

Probably a lot of resentment that's built up.

Speaker 1:

There's been a lot of resentment and he knows that and I have told him that and he struggles with it because he's like do you think you'll ever get to a place where you'll apologize to me? It like broke me down. This was like all within the last couple of weeks.

Speaker 2:

Fuck, you're swallowing. Ha ha, ha ha Thanks.

Speaker 1:

You know, when it really sucks because I'm like I want to and I'm working on that. Like I know when I do things wrong, it's just a really hard thing for me to apologize when I did it for so long, right, and that's kind of where I'm like. Do other people feel this way? When they come out of like those types of relationships where they were always the ones apologizing, do they ever fix that part of themselves because, like right now, I'm like I don't, it almost hurts me to apologize.

Speaker 2:

Well, I think too. You know, I was always the angry one, and you always suppress that anger.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

So for me, I've had to learn to contain it, but for you it's just coming out for the first time ever, truly, and I think it needed to get out. And when it comes out, it's not going to come out perfect. It's terrifying when it comes out. But that's many, many years. Because you know, with every relationship there's always these deep cuts that we do to each other. Yeah, that just happened in any type of long-term relationship. It doesn't necessarily mean that we mean to do it, but it's just, it is what it is, and over time those cuts really hurt, and so your anger is not a bad thing. You have to learn to hone it in, but you're aware of that and working on it now. So I really do think you should give yourself some grace, because even the anger is new for you.

Speaker 1:

Well, and that's kind of why I'm like okay to talk about this now, because I think and we say this, we say this a lot like self-awareness is the first step but it's only the first step. So it's like I knew why it was happening. I came home and I told him why and he understood why and it made a lot of sense to both of us, why. It doesn't take away the fact that when I get that way, it shuts him down emotionally, it scares him and I started to see this is so fucked up. But like I started to see him as like a scared little boy and I'm like, oh my God, he's not, it's not working, because he's hearing me.

Speaker 2:

It's working because you're scaring him.

Speaker 1:

It's working because I'm scaring him, and I didn't wanna do that anymore.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, but just think of this. This is just this never ending book of healing. Yeah, this is just another chapter where you are learning more about yourself, you're learning more about Jason, and this is an opportunity for you guys to continue to grow and heal together. I feel like this is like a therapy session, right?

Speaker 1:

now, but so I wanna talk about it because you know it's happened a total of four times Like I don't know when it's gonna happen, but I swear to God it is in that luteal face.

Speaker 2:

Where to fucking God, but the way you beat yourself up cause you like lost your shit four times. I have been losing my shit my entire life.

Speaker 1:

Right. Well, and that was kind of my justification for it. I was like, wow, you've seen me get mad four times. Like you know how many times I've watched you throw your keys at a wall and like throw a vase like at my, like behind me, and like I've watched you do that shit for 17 years. And now I'm doing it to you and you're you're gonna leave me. Like you know what I mean. There was a lot of anger in that because I was like motherfucker, I'd deal with it when you were like that and I just sat back and took it and now, like hearing myself even say that, now I was like, oh, that's bad.

Speaker 2:

It's almost like that, like angry inner teenager. Absolutely it really is. Cause it's like you know how you like love on your inner child.

Speaker 1:

You love on the inner child.

Speaker 2:

It's like oh sweet and do these fun like childlike activities and whatever. But then that inner teenager shows up and she's fucking pissed.

Speaker 1:

Oh, my God. I almost did a tick talk about that the other day, about like the difference between the inner child and the inner teenager, because this inner teenager is rear in her ugly head, yeah. And so I'm not gonna give details about any more of those things. But a lot of healing happened in the last couple of weeks. Before I went to go see the Barbie movie, literally the night of you know, he had made dinner present the kids and I couldn't eat it. I had to be somewhere at a certain time and so I he was like I made you dinner and I went and I looked and it was burgers and there wasn't a fucking tomato. You love tomatoes, I love tomatoes and I like tomatoes on my burgers. I'm the only one in the family who likes tomatoes on my burgers, so it kind of sucks. But I have only started voicing this in maybe the last six months to a year, because I'm also not a picky eater. I'll eat a burger without a tomato, but you like a burger with tomato, I just like a burger with one. I just have a preference. It's fine either way, but I like it better with one, right? So he's the one who does all the grocery shopping and I know everybody is like, oh, that's so sweet. I'm like no, no, no, no. He prefers to do it because he's efficient, he doesn't go over the budget and it gets him out of the house and he works from home and he hates being home all day. So, like it's not like you know what I mean. Like it's not just because he's like doing it out of the kindness of his heart, it's selfishly, but I appreciate it. Well, you're not gonna do it. You don't want to. If I do it, I want him also to be there. Like I want it to be a family affair and I go over the budget and I'm getting candy and ice cream and like I'm like a fucking kid in a candy store, literally. So it makes sense for him to do it. He keeps his under budget. It's all healthy food and shit, like whatever. So he'll forget the tomato. And I have been trying to be like okay, but like just next time, like if you're getting burgers and if you're getting hamburger buns, that like let that trigger you and remind you to go get a tomato. And he's like, but I've already gone past the produce section Like it's like this. He has this system that he uses and so he's been doing it this way for 17 years and now I'm like asking him to do it this new way and the last few times, like we have a little gas station down the street, that also is like a little grocery store and he's like it's not a big deal, I'll just run down there and grab one. I'm like okay, so it's always taken care of, it's not that like. He's like fuck you and your tomatoes, you know, but he's laid this plate out. He's no tomato on it and I was like I can't eat, I gotta go. Like I'm gonna be late and I left 30 minutes earlier than I should have because I was like fuck him, he didn't get a tomato again and I was like so angry. I should also mention I didn't know I was about to start my period because I started using a new tracker so it hadn't like synced up with my shit yet. Didn't know that until a couple of days later. I was like, oh, okay, that makes sense. So in my head, literally on the way to the Bar Me movie, I'm like he's never gonna get it right. He's never gonna get a fucking tomato for me. He doesn't care about me. He doesn't even care that I like tomatoes, like he doesn't care about making me happy. And then I watched the movie. Yeah okay, I watch it and I stay and I talk to my friend for like two hours afterwards and I go home and I'm like in my head like, okay, but he made you dinner and he cleaned up, and why is it that big of a deal? Like, just like, accept that. And then the other side of me, like the little angel in the devil on my shoulders, like the other side of me is like but your needs matter and what you want should matter. And like, yeah, he did those things, but like, what about what you want? Like he's always done those things. Like so I've got these two voices in my head and so I'm like, how do I bring this up without sounding ungrateful? What do I do? And do you remember when I told you I was reading that book and there was another chapter in it about the relationships, the empath survival guide? I got something out of that that day too. That was saying like you know, you can sandwich it between like a positive, two positive things, but I was so scared to bring it up.

Speaker 2:

I was so scared to bring it up because you were worried that you were gonna get angry, or you were worried it was not gonna be productive and he was gonna shut it down Because he beats himself up for not getting things right. Does he?

Speaker 1:

Yes, okay. So I was afraid if I brought it up it would spiral him into. It would send him into the spiral of I'm never gonna get it right. You deserve better. You know, like I'm never gonna be perfect, like I'm gonna forget these things, and it's you're just. You're clearly you're not happy. So I'm like I'm just gonna keep it in, I'm just gonna keep it in, like there's no point in bringing it up, I'm just gonna keep it in. And then the next day comes and I'm still keeping it in. But I'm like, as I'm keeping it in, I'm starting to feel this like rage. You have to get it out. I have to get it out. But I am scared to let it out because of the way that he hears it, because he has an internal voice telling him he's never gonna get it right. So I'm like how do I get this out without him feeling defeated? I don't know how. I've tried it a hundred different ways, a hundred different times and I don't know how to let it out. So he noticed that I was like off and he was like are you okay? And I was like we can talk about it later, when the kids go to bed. And he's like is everything okay and I was like we'll talk about it later. So the kids go to bed. This is the day after the Barbie movie, kids go to bed and I'm like there's an issue that I'm having and I'm struggling with the language and how to bring it up to you without it causing a fight, because I don't wanna fight with you and I don't wanna make it seem like it's a big deal and I don't want you to feel like I don't appreciate what you did. I was like I'm very grateful that you thought about me and you made me dinner the other night, but you forgot the tomato and I know it sounds so fucking. It's not about the pasta, it's not about the tomato. And he, immediately it starts happening Like oh, my fucking God, like seriously Defensive, you're gonna seriously Leah. And I was like this is why I didn't wanna bring it up. I'm struggling right now because if I keep it in, I'm afraid I'm gonna rage over a fucking tomato and that sounds psychotic and I don't wanna do that Like. I am asking you to help me communicate this because I don't wanna be mad about it. I just wanna feel like what I like matters to you and he's like well, if I'm being honest, like I would keep it in because it's not that big of a deal. Leah, it's a fucking tomato. And I'm like, no, no, let me tell you why it's not about a tomato. I was like for 17 years you didn't know I liked tomatoes on my burgers. Because I kept it in. And I am aware that I have caused a lot of this resentment. I'm aware that a lot of this anger that I'm feeling is because of me, because I kept it in. I was like it's not about the tomato, because your favorite ice cream is fish food. I mean, it's not my favorite. Wait what? It's like a Ben and Jerry's flavor. Okay, I was like it's not my favorite flavor, but we always get it because it's your favorite and I'll eat it. I was like you probably don't even know what my favorite is, because I'm just that I just do those things where I'm like I don't wanna be a bother. You've been that submissive for that long.

Speaker 2:

I have been that submissive for that long.

Speaker 1:

We go to your favorite restaurants because I'll eat anywhere, but like we never go where I wanna go because you don't like sushi. But I'll go and eat what you wanna eat because it's just easier. And it's like it's not about the tomato, but I'm feeling a lot of rage because I've let my needs and my wants fall away. It wasn't just for him, it was for everybody. Like I've just been the go along girl for so long, but especially in our relationship. And I was like and I'm afraid that if I keep that in and I don't bring it up, then all you've ever known is to make these burgers without a tomato. I just want you to know I like it and like sometimes, like you forget, and if I don't say it, then you're gonna continue to forget and then it's just gonna be a non thing again. Again, I don't wanna get back to that. I want my stuff to matter. I want my needs to matter. I want my wants to matter. I was like I don't know how to bring it up to you and he was like okay, all right, okay, I see, all right. So what if you just said thank you for dinner? You forgot the tomato, though. He was like I'll go run the IGA and I'll grab it. And I was like but then I feel bad that you're leaving the house to go get it. And he was like that's not yours, that's mine. He was like I'll probably beat myself up for like 10 minutes or like on the drive there I'll probably be like you, dumb idiot, you forgot the fucking tomato again. He was like but I'll get it eventually and that's not on you for me to be upset with myself, like that's on me. He was like I might be mad, but I'm not gonna be mad at you. And I was like okay. And then it got into this whole conversation about the Rages and I was like I don't like that happening. I know it's not happened a lot, I know it's a new thing, but I really don't wanna get to that place, which is why I'm struggling right now to like bring something to you and how to bring it to you. And he was like I'll hear it better when you're not saying it when you're angry. That was it. I don't know. That was it. That was a lesson.

Speaker 2:

So two things, because I'm here a lot and so I've seen the dynamics of your relationship and I'll bring up one example, and one example was your birthday. Yeah, yeah, I could feel his stress, yeah, planning your birthday, and his panic Because he did not want to fuck it up, and it's almost like he goes into paralysis when he panics. Absolutely.

Speaker 1:

He freezes, he knows he does.

Speaker 2:

We've talked about this so many times, but I could feel it because I could feel him not wanting to fuck up and not wanting to make you angry, so there's that part of it. But then I also have seen where you do bring things up softly and you do bring things up about how you feel or whatever, and he dismisses it. So I think it's both ends Like learning to come together and I personally don't think that the rage was a bad thing, because I think it needed to come out, for you guys to be in the spot where you're at now. Yeah, because I think you, not you just saying hey, I need this, hey, I need this. I don't necessarily think that he understood in some ways, was the anger was greater, or you knock on your store or do you miss me? Sometimes he 11 times. Definitely. Could the reaction have been better? Absolutely, but it's almost like that bad thing happened to then have a good.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no, I see.

Speaker 2:

I know exactly, does that?

Speaker 1:

make sense, absolutely Like it needed to happen. Yeah, I don't think that. I don't think anything in this life happens for like no reason whatsoever. It's also like I think it was supposed to happen that way. He freezes to the point of paralysis in every situation and that pisses me off because I'm like I just want effort. You're striving for perfection and he does this with everything. He's like is in law school right now and he's like doing it with law school, and I'm like you strive for perfection and everything, and when you can't do it perfect, you think you fail. And the way that I see it is which is the trauma response yes, the way I see it is you're trying and you never tried before. So for me, like progress over perfection.

Speaker 2:

Well, and that's where our childhood wounds come in. Right, because you are not going to treat him the way that his mom treated him.

Speaker 1:

Right. I have seen text messages from his mother telling him I didn't do this, you fucked up as usual. And I'm like this is where it gets it, Like that voice, that internal voice in his head, that like you fucked up as usual.

Speaker 2:

But when he went along with her plan, she stayed off his back and he was the best little son ever.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, Because he didn't act out and he froze. He was in paralysis his entire life and that's how you got that little scared little boy Well and it's just a perfect example of it's not about the tomato.

Speaker 2:

It's so much deeper than the issue at hand. We just have to kind of put our guards down too.

Speaker 1:

Well, and the way that I saw it was like you know, we've been together 17 years, but like we are just now, like it's almost like we've been in a year long, two year long relationship, because he's been sober for two years, I've been healing for three years, like I am just now finding my voice, I am just now realizing these things. So it's like learning each other from the start, because one of the things he said he was like yeah, but like I don't like tomato, so I don't think about it. It's like but you don't like broccoli, and two of our kids like broccoli and you always get them broccoli. So it's not about like you don't like them, so you don't think about it.

Speaker 2:

I think about. I think he has spent a long time dismissing your needs.

Speaker 1:

But I've also spent a very long time not boasting your needs. Yes, that's kind of it's both, and that's where that was. So let me tell you how I got to that with the Barbie movie. Let's take it back. Let's take it back to the movie, and this is why I'm like I don't want to give away spoilers, but if you have read or seen TikToks or watched any interview or interviews or reels or Instagram post about it, you kind of know what I'm already going to say. In the beginning, barbie was very dismissive of Ken. It's just Ken, it's just Ken. And what happens is she ends up having to go to the real world and in the real world she sees how women are treated, and I think this is my interpretation of the movie not only mine, but this is my interpretation of the movie. She sees it and she sees how we are dismissed as women and she has. She starts to have empathy for Ken and she goes back. But Ken had already let the power go to his head. So then he's like this fuck Barbie, we don't need Barbie, we'll run the world. Because he read a book on patriarchy and like he's like I'm bringing patriarchy to the Barbie world. It doesn't go over so well and all the Barbies like end up being like these submissive women to the Kins and it's real fucked up watching it in real time because you start to see how that's kind of what's happened in the world until they all start to become empowered Barbies but it's not empowered. In a way that's like fuck you, fuck you, ken, we don't need Ken. Every night's girls night, like every night's Barbies night that's what I think she says in the beginning they start to realize, like the reason that Ken is acting the way he is is because he was wounded, because he was angry, because he was holding all this stuff in and being dismissed and being looked over. So part of me relates to Ken and the rage that came after and part of me relates to Barbie, because I'm both feminine and masculine and I think towards the end they she learns like to be less angry and he learns to be less angry. I just think we did a Instagram a while back about angry vegans and maybe I should like try to relate this back to that. I think what you're doing as a vegan is great, but when you are angry at me because I'm not doing the same thing, it kind of turns me off a little bit. It's all in the like delivery. You know what I mean. It's all about the delivery. If you were like fuck you for eating meat, then I'm gonna be like fuck you for telling me. Can we talk about the Facebook?

Speaker 2:

thing that I got into.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so it's just Because I just think anger is met with anger and wounded people are met with wounded people. And when you come from it, like from a okay, I see what you're going through, I see what you're saying, I'm validating that, I am recognizing that and I'm holding space for that and I don't want to hurt you anymore. So if this is what it's going to take not to hurt you, then I will do this thing to not hurt you anymore.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Okay, talk about the Facebook thing.

Speaker 2:

It's just so. There was a woman on my Facebook and she made a status and it said suggestions and tips on how to help your ADHD child thrive. And I know I'm the minority here. Every single comment was at all at all at all prescription, medication, medication, medication. And I don't agree with that. And again, this is just my own personal opinion. Just because it's my own personal opinion doesn't mean that you have to live your life based on my opinion, right? But I think that we've kind of gotten into the that world where that's how it is. So every comment was medication and so I commented and I just said you know, if, if you're not wanting to go that route there, there can be other avenues. I know a lot of ADHD adults who have been on Adderall for a very, very long time and they don't like being on it as an adult, but they don't know how to get off of it because it's all they know. And then they don't know how to cope with having ADHD without being medicated, but they don't like being on their medication and then under it. I posted a video of Dr Gabbarmonte talking about ADHD, and ADHD is actually a sign that you had a traumatic childhood and some woman I don't even know commented and she said Gabbarmonte is a quack. You are so offensive to the ADHD by the way, she doesn't even have ADHD, it's just her child. You are so offensive and ableist to the ADHD community. How dare you say ADHD is because of trauma, yada, yada, yada. And I'm like how did we get to this point where I because I'm speaking, oh, and it's so offensive to the community and I'm like how did we get to this point where I can't even share my opinion about my own community because it you don't agree with it?

Speaker 1:

But also on a post where someone was asking for suggestions right, right, right. It wasn't like she was like, hey, I'm doing this for my kid. She was asking for suggestions and I'm like, which probably means honestly, which probably means she's looked at the Adderall route before and is not wanting to go there.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 1:

To be honest.

Speaker 2:

Right, and you know, if that works for you, that's okay, like with us talking about psychedelics. If that doesn't work for you, that's okay. And people, you know we've gotten a little bit of hate, but I'm like, if we don't align with you, it's all right, but our goal is to not align with everybody. Like we are, I'm not for everyone. That's the beautiful thing about how this world goes around and it's just this like, because you think differently than I do, then you're just wrong and you should get canceled and oh, and I just I used to be that and so now I just see it from a very different lens. On, you know, you coming at me that way, who is going to respond and be like you're so right, babe, you're so right, you know what? All right, hand over that, adderall, let me take it. You're not going to get the message across.

Speaker 1:

And again, I'm angry vegan.

Speaker 2:

And again I am saying this, having been that person. But it's okay to change, it's okay to change your opinion, it's okay to you know, but some people just really stay so stuck in it and and they can't see other people's perspective or see that other people have different experiences or other people have different wounds, other people have different trauma, and I think we are so much more alike than we think and we have a common goal, but we get stuck in our own muck, yeah, that we don't see it and we can't step outside of it and look at it from another lens or another point of view. Or maybe have a conversation If you don't know the person and don't really understand, and it not be a fight, but just having different perspectives, listening and trying to understand each other, and even if you end the conversation still having different opinions and different perspectives, that's okay. I'm not saying you go and be a fucking asshole to anybody, but no, but have you seen those videos?

Speaker 1:

I think in Australia maybe, where they are having two completely different people, like one's feminist, one's like male chauvinist, and they give them mushrooms. Yeah, massage, thank you. They give them mushrooms. They have them sit down and talk first, and then they give them mushrooms and then they talk. I have seen it and it's like they come out of it with this, like new respect for the other person and understanding of why they feel the way that they feel, and it still doesn't mean that they're going to like not be a feminist anymore Sure not be a misogynist anymore, but it's like we have more alike than we have differences. That's universal.

Speaker 2:

I now try to approach conversations as I would when I'm on MDMA, because Tony and I can be Tony. This has happened. Okay, tony and I were in a huge fight and that was the night that we planned to do MDMA Huge fight. Okay, where he is, fine, I'm going to take it and then you take it and I was in my head, I took it. I'm like I'm still going to be like fuck you when I'm on this substance, like I'm not backing down, I'm not, I'm right and you're wrong. We take the medicine, egos go out the door and we just talk and I think when we are in that again, in that sober state where it's like fuck you, I'm right, you're wrong, I'm not backing down, I'm not apologizing, yada, yada, yada, and I'm still guilty of this at times, right? Second, we take MDMA. That all goes out the door. It does, and I can hear him and he can hear me, and we get a lot more shit done To help our relationship grow because our egos are out.

Speaker 1:

I think with MDMA, those walls come down that are there to protect you. Sure, they're there for a reason and they've been there most of your life, right, but sometimes you put those walls up with people that you probably are not. You could probably take them down with.

Speaker 2:

Right, tony, I'm not in danger, tony, I am safe.

Speaker 1:

But the way that our brains work and I have, I understand it now If it is triggered at all by something that reminded us in the past to like, put that wall up in the first place. If I am met with anger, I'm going to be submissive. If Jason is met with anger, he's going to shut down emotionally.

Speaker 2:

And if I am met with anger, you fight back, I fight back. Yeah, you know who else does Tony. Oh shit, oh shit.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Because, again, I was. I was that person who I had to defend myself.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, basically.

Speaker 2:

I had to. I really didn't have a choice, so it's it's just interesting, you know, even when I see that like that woman on Facebook getting so angry at me for just sharing my own opinion yeah, that's not a personal attack against anyone, um, her getting so angry, but me being like, wow, I wonder where that comes from.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, like I wonder, because you know it comes from somewhere, right, but she's probably like no, it's about your Facebook status.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

It's so offensive. It's not about the tomatoes, karen. So on a on a different note, another conversation that I had today on social media was with one of our followers. You should share. That I do. I want to share it because I was very I loved the conversation and we had different opinions about the Barbie movie about the Barbie movie. She had watched it and is like no, it is feminist. And we have probably been talking back and forth for a couple of hours now, on and off, and it hasn't been combative, it hasn't been angry, it's been. I listened to what he has to say, he's listening to what I have to say, but I do want to share something because it was interesting to me, because I'm like I'm not saying that it's not a feminist movie.

Speaker 2:

I still don't really understand what's wrong with a feminist movie, but I think it's different than the feminism that we know.

Speaker 1:

And even the director and Margot Robbie have done an interview and he is like, well, she said it was feminist and I was like no, no, no, no. She even said, yeah, it's a feminist movie, but it's feminism in a way that, like a rising tide, lifts all boats. Like it's feminist the word feminist has gotten a bad rap Like it's feminist, the way it's supposed to be, you know, but so many people hear that word and it's like no, no, no, no, no, no, no. But one of the things that he said and I do, I am going to say this and I'm not again, I'm not saying it to throw him under the bus, because I value the conversation that we have and there were a lot of things in it that, like I heard, he heard it was a good back and forth. It was not a Karen situation coming at me, you know, I was talking about divine feminine and divine masculine and he said, well, sometimes, men, one of the things I said is like sometimes we don't hold, we forget to hold space for men, to allow them to be vulnerable, to allow them to share their feelings, and that's one of the things that, like my husband thanked me for this week. Like I sent you that screenshot. He was like thank you for. Well, here's the other thing, being vulnerable and opening up to me about that, and I appreciate that.

Speaker 2:

Think about how many men murder, rape, commit suicide because of so much suppressed. There's a lot of suppressed emotions and anger and more men commit suicide than women.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, more men are mass shooters than women, more men are serial killers than women. More men abuse women than the other way around. There's a lot of fucking anger, but I am now realizing that I have to be able to hold space for him and his emotions if I am going, if I am going to expect that in return. So I said something about, like you know, holding space for men and not being so mad at them all the time, and realizing that their pain comes from somewhere too, and we are only perpetuating it by being angry at them, and we should probably be asking why they're so angry. Yeah, yeah, in the first place, yeah. And he said well, yeah, but like, men don't want to do that, they want, they want to provide and they want to protect. And I was like mm. I get that, they do, they do, though, but also Right, but also they should be in a relationship with someone who is able to hold space for them and their emotions. In the same way, you expect someone to hold space for you and yours because they're there. They are there, but I said this and shit, chat, chat, chat, chat, chat happening, and then, further down the line, something else comes up where he says, yeah, but women don't allow men to be vulnerable and show feelings. And I was like mm.

Speaker 2:

Unhealed that unhealed women unhealed.

Speaker 1:

Women do not allow men to be vulnerable and to show emotions. So I get what you're saying, but I'm also hearing that you've maybe wanted at some point for someone to be able to hold space for the you and they couldn't. And also, I don't need my husband only to protect and provide for me, because there have been times I have protected him and I think that emotionally. And he said something like I don't think my five to girlfriend could protect me in a situation, but then he said, unless it was an emotional, I was like, well, that's what I mean. Like I've watched my husband shut down because of things that his mother was saying about him and I defended him because he couldn't defend himself Interesting and to me like that's what he needed for me. I was able to come to his defense. Whether he asked me to or not is not like you know what I mean. Like I'm watching this happen and I the way that I'm seeing it is a child being attacked. That's the way I saw it happening and I'll be damned if I'm going to sit back and let that happen on my watch and not do anything about it, because he's supposed to be the protector. Yeah, no sometimes you need protected to, and sometimes a woman is able to do it.

Speaker 2:

Well, and back to a healed woman. Yeah, and back to the um, the like women. Don't let men like women don't allow men to like have emotions and they don't hold space. Tony used to be married. The reason why that marriage ended is because he felt like he wasn't respected or heard or listened to.

Speaker 1:

men needed to yeah, and you're not too macho.

Speaker 2:

Right, you have feelings, right, right, right. And now we have, you know, this relationship where we have worked really hard on our own wounds and worked hard together, and so now we do hold space for each other and when we do what we're supposed to do, when I can be in my feminine and hold space for him, we have really beautiful conversations and we actually get somewhere with the conversation, instead of just both being angry and coming at each other.

Speaker 1:

I'm right, you're wrong. I'm right, you're wrong. It's not this like-.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, when the ego goes out the door. We just had it this week. I told you that, yeah, I usually would meet him with, okay, I'm mad and I'm mad about this and blah, blah, blah, blah, where instead I did start to get that way. But then he started to express his perspective and his feelings and I'm like just listen to him, just listen, just listen, like you're like it's okay to just hear what he has to say. And so I listened to him and I'm like he's right, I don't think of it like that, I don't think about his perspective sometimes and he's totally right and I apologize, which that's very hard for me to do. Okay, that's something I've really had to work on, like how you always apologize first. It's hard for me to apologize first because I've always saw it as a sign of weakness. And so, again, taking those child wounds out and being able to sit with him in it and listen to him and acknowledge his feelings and take accountability for my part, in it, he's not wrong 100% of the time and I'm right 100% of the time.

Speaker 1:

No, usually it's not about that at all. It's like neither one of us are wrong or right, it's just about seeing that other side. To add to that, though, I think earlier, before we started recording, I was talking about how, like the way that we are not able to hold space for men sometimes, and I can understand why, because I was in that space for a little bit when he first got sober and was. There were times that he would get very distraught and very emotional and I could hold space to a certain extent, but I would be lying if I said it didn't make me feel good that he was crying.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Because I was very much in this. You should be crying, you're resentful, you should feel shame, you should feel guilt. You should be feeling this because look at all of these things you did and look at how you made me feel for so long. You should be feeling this right now. Now should he have? Yes, that was part of, like, the process of getting sober and it's also part of the process of healing. Like, if you're not feeling guilt or shame during your healing process, like you're doing it wrong, like you're bypassing a lot of shit.

Speaker 2:

I have like DM'd people and apologize to them.

Speaker 1:

There's so much guilt and shame that comes along with this. What wasn't right was that I was like I was like happy to see him doing it. The other part of me was like happy that he was able to like have feelings and emotions.

Speaker 2:

Yes, I was like okay it's not all lost.

Speaker 1:

All right, cool, cool, cool. He can cry. And what's funny is like you were like saying earlier, like I think apologizing is a sign of weakness, and here is where you said that. You said that, but I immediately was like I think it's incredibly brave and strong to apologize when it's a real apology, because my apologies before were not real. I just didn't want to lose that connection. I was trying really hard to like keep a connection and I didn't want it to be severed.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

So that did come from a place of weakness, but when you are like, truly sorry for something, that takes a lot of strength.

Speaker 2:

Oh my God, apologizing is so hard and I'm talking, yes, a sincere apology. Well, I don't apologize Like I just used to not apologize, If it were. If I apologize, I felt like a lot of guilt and shame.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

So that has been work to really hear him and sit with him and apologize and mean it.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so it's not just me.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, oh my gosh. No, I think that takes a lot of growth and self-awareness.

Speaker 1:

We could maybe talk about this in another episode, another day. But like what a true apology is, because it comes with a change in action. It comes with like a sincerity, like how many times do narcissists apologize and continue the same behavior? That's very true. Like so for a long time, jason saying sorry meant nothing to me, nothing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Cause I was like I've heard this all before. He doesn't mean it Right, but he wasn't saying it from a place of strength, he was saying it from a place of weakness. He was saying it to shut me up. He was saying it because he didn't want to feel guilt, he didn't want to feel shame. He was saying it so you wouldn't leave. Yeah, it was both of us. Both of us were.

Speaker 2:

In different ways. Wow, wow. I was supposed to go to this movie with you. Yes, but it was past your bedtime. I'm going to send you a video what I do to get ready for bed.

Speaker 1:

I believe you.

Speaker 2:

No, I put eye masks on. I have. I swirl my face, I have mouth tape, Like I have a. I have a whole routine. I believe I know you just sent me a thing. I'm like that's you Such projector energy right here, but the movie was at seven on a weekday and I'm like, are you fucking.

Speaker 1:

I was like it's seven o'clock, what are you talking about?

Speaker 2:

Are you kidding me? Yeah, no, I don't do that. Don't do that to me.

Speaker 1:

I'm sorry, sometimes you do it.

Speaker 2:

Well, I'm going to go to a concert with you, but Okay, you're very lucky.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I appreciate that. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Thanks, thanks. Okay, I don't know how to close this out, but I do want you to go see it and tell me what you think, because the way that I saw it was very different than some of the haters that I'm seeing out there, like hating on it with first off without even seeing it, yeah, and being like it's got feminine agenda, like I need you to watch it and just watch the change that happens in the movie and have a conversation with us.

Speaker 2:

Well, and the other thing is, you know, I think people were saying things like oh, you know, fucking movies these days, this agenda, and I'm like, okay, we are here on this earth to have a human experience. Part of a human experience is to be able to just enjoy watching a movie and like at least you could watch that movie and take a healing perspective out of it.

Speaker 1:

Right, I got something incredibly healing out of it. Yeah, so I came home and apologized to my husband for raging about a fucking tomato. It's not about the tomato.

Speaker 2:

It's not about the pasta. It's not about the pasta.

Speaker 1:

All right, I guess, to all our listeners, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Look into the divine feminine and the divine masculine. There's a good way to look at it.

Speaker 1:

You know it has nothing to do with feminism as we know it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, do your own research, stay curious, stay curious, be open.

Speaker 1:

Less judgmental, less judgmental, please, and we'll see you on the other side. Bye.

The Barbie Movie
Exploring Divine Feminine and Masculine Energies
Exploring Anger and Vulnerability in Relationships
Navigating Apologies and Healing in Relationships
Unveiling Resentment and Communication in Relationships
Challenging Perspectives and Embracing Change
Supporting Vulnerability in Relationships
Apologizing and Understanding Perspectives
Movie Discussion and Feminine Agenda