See You On The Other Side
52 | Ways to Mitigate a Challenging Trip
Have you ever been afraid of a challenging psychedelic trip? In this episode we dive into the complexities of difficult experiences, or 'bad' trips, with substances like psilocybin, arming you with the knowledge to mitigate these challenges head on. Join us as we dissect challenging trips, and how to prepare for the best possible outcome.
In this episode, we share our personal experiences with alcohol and psychedelics, comparing the significant differences and how the latter can be harnessed for personal growth and healing. We also discuss proper dosages, the importance of research and respecting the substance, and the resources available to those seeking a safe and transformative journey.
Lastly, we examine the impact of external triggers, such as music and environment, on psychedelic experiences. Learn from our journey as we provide insights into managing expectations and trusting the process, allowing the medicine to guide you towards clarity, peace, and self-discovery.
https://jamesfadiman.com/microdosingpsychedelics/
https://microdosinginstitute.com/
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Are psychedelics right for you on your healing journey? Book a discovery call to ask us anything.
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Use code OTHERSIDE15 for 15% off
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Use code SYOTOS for 10% off
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1982724/support
Our Website:
https://linktr.ee/seeyouontheothersidepodcast
Have you ever been afraid of a challenging psychedelic trip? In this episode we dive into the complexities of difficult experiences, or 'bad' trips, with substances like psilocybin, arming you with the knowledge to mitigate these challenges head on. Join us as we dissect challenging trips, and how to prepare for the best possible outcome.
In this episode, we share our personal experiences with alcohol and psychedelics, comparing the significant differences and how the latter can be harnessed for personal growth and healing. We also discuss proper dosages, the importance of research and respecting the substance, and the resources available to those seeking a safe and transformative journey.
Lastly, we examine the impact of external triggers, such as music and environment, on psychedelic experiences. Learn from our journey as we provide insights into managing expectations and trusting the process, allowing the medicine to guide you towards clarity, peace, and self-discovery.
https://jamesfadiman.com/microdosingpsychedelics/
https://microdosinginstitute.com/
1:1 Discovery Calls
Are psychedelics right for you on your healing journey? Book a discovery call to ask us anything.
Colors
Use code OTHERSIDE15 for 15% off
Microdosify
Use code SYOTOS for 10% off
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1982724/support
Our Website:
https://linktr.ee/seeyouontheothersidepodcast
All right, welcome back, shroomies, to another micro dose episode. In today's episode, we are going to be talking about how to mitigate a bad trip. Yes, i feel like we get talked to about this a lot And we have really some strong opinions about it.
Speaker 2:There's always the questions that come after.
Speaker 1:Well, i guess the thing that I wanted to say is you know, for those of us who have drank heavily, there is that we've, most of us have been in this boat where we got over served, and for me I'm somebody who I don't drink anymore If I, if I, do drink, it's like I'm having one drink because something looks good Like it, looks like it would taste good.
Speaker 2:But usually when.
Speaker 1:I get. I'm like this alcohol, like, like.
Speaker 2:Can you make this without the alcohol?
Speaker 1:And I do do that Yeah, just because I want, i want, i don't want water. Like I always drink water. I don't want, like a soda, like I just want something like fruity and fun, but with like I don't have to have the alcohol, because I'm like, literally when I drink and I'm like, ooh, i can taste the poison.
Speaker 2:Do you want to know something? I learned the other day What? Someone who enjoys the taste of alcohol is more than likely going to have a dependency or a problem with alcohol later in life.
Speaker 1:Interesting because I've always hated the taste of alcohol. Same, but I used to drink myself like just try to drink it fast because I don't like the taste.
Speaker 2:Same, like I will like gag if I think about like a shot of tequila, like the thought of it, like grosses me out. Or like the people who like sip bourbon because it tastes good, like how that's my family even the people who are like. But try this one, this one has sweet notes. I'm like yeah, no, it still tastes exactly like like every other shitty bourbon.
Speaker 1:I've ever had.
Speaker 2:And I don't care that it was $200 for this bottle in Kentucky. So every one of them.
Speaker 1:Oh God, And I'm like. this stuff tastes like my butt.
Speaker 2:I feel like your butt would taste better, my but it would I know that right?
Speaker 1:Not that I know that, but I just know like I eat a lot of pineapple. Here's the other thing How many of us got over served Like? I was always somebody who threw up, like almost every time I drank I threw up and I blacked out, which, by the way, if you black out, it's you are overdosing on alcohol, and if you black out really easily, you should go get checked for PTSD, ptsd which that TikTok blew my fucking mind. You mean, you mean you mean the New York Times.
Speaker 2:Not TikTok the New York. Times where it was like Hey, if you, if you are throwing up after a night of drinking or if you black out, you overdosed on alcohol. Also, you probably have PTSD.
Speaker 1:Yeah, go get checked out.
Speaker 1:I have PTSD, literally, and I constantly overdosed on alcohol. I threw like there was one time I remember going out and I went to the bar and then I was walking home and then we're in an alleyway and I had to throw up and I literally just opened my mouth and it was like an exorcism. I just projectile, vomited straight out, and but I did that. But you know what I did. I would do it again. Yes, the next day, the next weekend, and so you know a lot of people who talk about their bad trips, which I would rather call them a challenging trip. Yeah, i kind of go back to like how many times we have this bad experience with alcohol and it has no benefit to us. We have this bad experience with alcohol and then we go and do it over and over and over and over again to ourselves, cause even if I didn't throw up, i would get deathly like hungover.
Speaker 2:But you know what I feel like it is. I think the reason people continue to do it is because that is so normal, like, think about like hangovers are normal, it's a normal part of life. People talk about, like you know, hangovers like it's just nothing, because everyone gets them. But like this, what we're talking about, like the challenging trips, the bad experiences, you know those aren't, those are very stigmatized. The substances is way more stigmatized. It's not in everyday society, in our culture talked about So it's like taboo to have a bad or a challenging trip.
Speaker 1:And I hate talking about mushrooms and alcohol Like they're anything similar.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like. A challenging time drinking too much alcohol and a challenging time with mushrooms is even in the same.
Speaker 2:We're talking about poison versus medicine.
Speaker 1:Well, and that's why, even like when, literal poison when we say drugs, i'm like I wouldn't. I don't even consider mushrooms a drug. I consider them a medicine, and so a lot of times when people are having a challenging experience is because it's something that they need to see. It may be hard, yeah, but it also may be necessary.
Speaker 2:So so in this episode we're really talking about like challenging trips with psilocybin specifically. You know, i know some people who have had some challenging trips on like LSD and it was because they were doing it for the first time and went to a bar, and there's just like you. There's got to be a way that we can. We can help people like have a smaller chance of that happening, which is what we're going to go into today, which kind of goes right into this first point.
Speaker 2:Well, and there was something else I was going to fucking say about it. I was going to say the whole bad trip, challenging trip. We've had Jimmy from psychedelic passage on and he has even said, like labeling something as bad, like that's just a label, like you're putting a word to it, and the people that I know and not everyone, but I have heard from a couple of people who have had so called bad trips, who afterwards had like something really good come out of it. So I'm like so was it really bad if it helped you get sober, if it helped you dump the shitty boyfriend that you couldn't let go of, if it helped you leave your job and find a different career?
Speaker 1:If it helped you deal with some really like traumatic childhood shit.
Speaker 2:Right. So I think the bad part of that is an misunderstanding and all of the things we're going to go into lack of support, lack of integration, Like there's no way to understand it if you don't have the right tools to deal with the challenging part of it.
Speaker 1:So the really important thing is set and setting Yes. So when you do this, you have to kind of be in the right mindset, and so what I mean by that is, let's say, you just lost a loved one and you're experiencing a tremendous amount of grief. It may not be the right time for you to do it. You may have to, you know, kind of sit through those feelings and process it, because you're still like so deep in it that you you kind of have to get out of it a little bit before it's the right time.
Speaker 2:That's interesting because I think a lot of people would want to do it, to get out of that. And I think it's necessary that you have to kind of go through that grief a little bit and feel what you're supposed to experience and what you're supposed to feel, and then and it might be like a year after it might be there's no timeline for grief, but and that's just an example of it like if you're grieving, you know.
Speaker 1:And we talk about this a lot The mushrooms aren't the medicine you are, they are the catalyst, and so it's almost like you have to sit with yourself a little bit before taking this substance and kind of sit with those feelings and process them a little bit on your own.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so. So that would be like the set part of it, like make sure that, like you're in a good place, like you don't have to be in a perfect place No, that's impossible.
Speaker 1:Right, and the reason why you're doing it is because you're probably not in a great place or there are things that you need to overcome. I just you can't be in a place where it's like you're still like really traumatized and really in like the depths of the situation that you're in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe work on getting yourself out of that hole a little bit. Yeah, and then the setting part of it is what we were talking about earlier. like the friend I had who had a really bad LSD trip, like where it was her first time and she's in a bar with, like you know, hundreds of people. shoulder to shoulder Setting is huge. Like the people who will try it for their first time at a music festival or at a concert or at a party. And if you are around, energy that doesn't align with you, that's gonna be a challenge.
Speaker 1:Right and yeah if you, if you go, take a large amount of psilocybin and then go to a concert and you know you're with people who maybe don't understand or aren't gonna be empathetic or soft, yeah With you. If you are struggling like you're around the wrong people, you're in the wrong place and it could be really really challenging.
Speaker 2:I have said this before, but I'm gonna say it for the sake of this episode. A friend of ours who always has a bad trip. There's two things to that. They never know how much they're taking, which is the next one.
Speaker 1:I hate that like it kills me.
Speaker 2:We'll totally get into that, like the amount that they take, but also like the people that he is with at the time. You know there's usually drinking involved and it's a crowded area, crowded situation, a music festival type thing. And when this person starts to maybe go into this experience and I say go into because like the amount that they took was enough to send them straight in to their subconscious brain, into their psyche, into themselves they're on the ground crying And the people around him because they don't know what to be doing in that situation, they're all trying to have a good time. This guy is like killing their fucking buzz Right Are like dude, get the fuck up, what are you doing? Stop crying. Like people are staring. You know, i don't know. I've never been there when this happens, but this is like a thing that everybody talks about And that is not the support that you would need in that situation. And of course, that's going to send someone spiraling further in and trying to fight the experience.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and when Leah and I have done heroic doses, so a large healing dose, that we call it the show you your shit dose, we are like in a safe space that we feel familiar in and it feels comfortable. It's not in a we're not in party mode, it's with the intention of healing. We're, like you know, in a bed, on a couch, somewhere that feels very comfortable to us. You know somebody is sitting with us making sure we are safe. Somebody who is sitting with us is somebody who is lending us their calm nervous system.
Speaker 2:They're also sober.
Speaker 1:They're also sober, Like it's not this, like we're doing this and then going out to the club. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because that would be awful. I could not even imagine.
Speaker 1:Oh, my God.
Speaker 2:I could What that would feel like, And I know so many people who have done that and they're like I'm never touching them again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then we also have like a eye mask we put on and lay back and go into our own mind. So I can't imagine being in a public place while having dealing with like these big feelings or emotions or visualizations or whatever it is that you're experiencing. That would be traumatizing. But you can't blame the medicine You like. You have to. You know it's like if again, i hate using this comparison, but it's, it's what we know But if I go and rip 20 shots and I have a really bad time, it's because I made the choice to over serve myself.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like so you know, i can't be like Oh, that alcohol like blah, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 2:I you did that. I did that When I think it's okay to use those as comparisons because, for the sake of talking about this to the general public, that's the thing that they have to compare this to. Yeah, we're trying to make a comparison. Yeah, i think it's okay to make that comparison, and I think that sense is. This is what's what people get language that that a lot of people understand, yeah, so what's the next one?
Speaker 1:Lack of research For the people that listen to us. I love that. I love that people listen to us and and feed off the information that we give them. But you also have to advocate for yourself and do your own research. It worked for us, it has worked for a lot of people.
Speaker 2:But also you need to have your own knowledge about what you're doing and why you're doing it and how it works and what the expectation is there, so you're not doing it blindly and not just going by what we say or why what somebody else says Yeah, I recently came across a resource website that has a list of medications or things that you that would affect a trip and things that you should be aware of, cause that's another thing is like sometimes medications can can either exacerbate or no, no, no, no, no, no, no. So it's not just a tool or numb your experience on mushrooms. It's Fatiman's website. James Fatiman, the micro dosing like guru.
Speaker 1:How do you spell?
Speaker 2:that F A, d I M A N. Okay, i think it might be Fatiman micro dosingcom. I could be wrong about that. We'll figure it out and I'll put it in the link. But there's so many other ways to research this, so many other ways, and I've really anybody who doesn't know what they're doing like and they're just doing it blindly or taking it blindly like you're not being responsible.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:At all.
Speaker 1:That's a very good point at all, and I do.
Speaker 2:I could be wrong about this, but you know, i do feel like the mushrooms are very, very good at showing your shit, yes, and they're also really good at giving you what you need not necessarily not really what you want And sometimes I feel like if you're fucking around and you're not taking it seriously, i feel like they'll punish you because you're not fucking ready. Oh, i could be wrong about that, but that's just like they're like no child. Sit the fuck down.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is sacred.
Speaker 2:Like I'm not here for a good time.
Speaker 2:the way that you're trying to have a good time, You're completely disrespecting the medicine, and I'm not also saying that they can't be used recreationally or to enhance an experience, but we'll get into that too, because there are protocols protocols and recreational doses and intentional healing doses, and if you're going into it taking a very large amount, thinking you're going to have a good fucking time, i feel like it has this way of like shoving you on your ass and saying, no, the fuck, you're not, because you don't know what you're doing.
Speaker 1:And I do get like when I, when we first started this podcast, I had done it but I didn't know a lot. Still, right, Yeah, There's just it's a lot of information. Yeah, I knew to put myself in a safe space and you know in that part. But in regards to just psilocybin and just learning about it, there's so much information out there And I get that it could be really overwhelming or maybe even confusing, but there are, there is support and it's psychedelic dot support where you can find a psychedelic assisted therapist where they can kind of help you along the way and, you know, guide you in the sense of like with education, And so you're doing it safely and effectively. Yeah, And so if you still feel like you don't know, seek out that.
Speaker 2:I would love to get to a point where people can call us for direction. Yeah, Maybe not like advice, but like asking us the right questions and getting the right information from us and us pointing them in the right direction. for you know, this is how to get started. This is where you should be, Look. you know, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Are you hinting at?
Speaker 2:something, possibly, possibly. I'm just saying there's a lot of people out there who would love to help and there are a lot of people out there who don't like asking for help.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I would love to talk about what we know.
Speaker 2:Hey girl About what we've learned in the last several years. We have a lot of information to give and a lot of resources. Yeah, honestly, we've built a very, very large database for people in this space. Definitely Okay, okay So that was, what was that one Lack of research.
Speaker 1:Lack of research. The next one.
Speaker 2:Dose, i feel like that should literally be the first thing to me. In my opinion, that is the most important. Yeah, it's hard to rate them. Yeah, because I feel like they're all very, very, very important steps in allowing yourself to have a good experience.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Yeah, so dose, and again this goes with the research part. Dose matters. You know we've shared. You know when we have done five grams we are in a private, comfortable, safe situation. And I've never done this and I literally can't fathom it taking five grams and then going out in public to like a concert. And we know people who have done that And it's not safe.
Speaker 2:And again, if this I don't even want to experience it for the sake of experiencing it.
Speaker 1:And this is again this is sacred, This is sacred medicine and you need to use it properly. And in going and taking that much, it's disrespectful to the medicine And I know it's not intentionally, but I think it's just important to know about doses so you know exactly how much you're taking for the environment that you're going to be in.
Speaker 2:Let's compare this a little bit, okay, because I've said this in a previous episode. So let's say you hear, you know, mushrooms can help blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, or they can help enhance your concert experience, or they can help you get through some anxiety and some trauma. Do you just take a handful, or do you like? well, how much mushrooms? Because I'm going to compare this to alcohol for a little bit.
Speaker 2:Someone says Hey, have this drink, it'll help you relax, it'll help you calm down. Do you drink the whole bottle Or do you like a sip or a drink? Like you know, and sometimes that's a little bit of a trial and an error thing And if you fuck up, you're going to really fuck up, right. But it's also the same with, like Tylenol or any type of prescription medicine where they're like this is the recommended dose, don't mix it with substances. This is how much you take and how often you take it. And then you take the fucking pills and you take a handful of them. You're not using it in the way that it is intended to be used, so you are not going to have the effects.
Speaker 1:That it should have.
Speaker 2:That it should have Period, no matter what the substance is. How many times have you you have done this, oh, oh no. Or even heard of someone who's done this And we've talked about this too comparing it to like taking an edible Taking an edible had no idea how many milligrams of cannabis it was. Can I tell you a story? Absolutely, because that's like. This is like a really good fucking comparison. Okay.
Speaker 1:I was in a place where I didn't have an edible, but I wanted to take one, And so I got the legal. I always forget the. The legal. Delta nine, delta nine or delta eight. It was a delta eight, and so I just was very new to the game and assumed that they wouldn't be as strong.
Speaker 1:Oh, because you're like oh, they're legal. Right, They're legal, they're not as strong. And I was sitting there watching TV and I ate one. 30 minutes later I was like I don't really feel anything. Oh no, oh, it gets worse. It's bad. Oh no, it's bad.
Speaker 2:It's like the number one rule of any type of edible, right.
Speaker 1:And here's the thing I am in human design I am a three five So I learned through my fuck ups So don't do what I do kids. So I was. I was like, oh, i don't feel anything. So I took like two more. Oh my God, i ended up having like six or seven. Jesus Christ, and I go to bed and I wake up at like four o'clock in the morning and I'm like I have to puke my guts out Like I am, i whatever, but I am so fucked up I cannot walk to the bathroom So I have to get carried because I don't know how to walk. What?
Speaker 2:You had to get carried. Was this the time you didn't know you had legs? No, that was a different time. Holy shit, how many times do you have to do that? That's it, to learn your lesson.
Speaker 1:That was it, i've learned my lesson.
Speaker 2:Okay, i'm sharing it.
Speaker 1:Okay. So I'm, i'm, i'm, i'm wanting it. So I had to get carried to the bathroom, puked my guts out And I'm literally on the bathroom floor and I'm on all fours like roughing my guts out in the toilet. Oh my God, i didn't even move to get up to go pee, because if I move my head in any way, like I'm, i can't, like I just physically can't. So I fell asleep with my face on the toilet, throwing up on all fours, my God, i didn't know this story.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're a little bit embarrassed about that It's one of those things where, again, i you fucked up, i fucked up bad and I paid for it, but it wasn't the Delta eight's fault. No, it was my fault.
Speaker 2:Okay, and also, like I've had people like I'm, like they're, they're telling me this story, a similar type of story. And I'm like well how many milligrams did you take? And they're like I don't know. It was like this big, so it must. I thought it was it doesn't matter, right?
Speaker 1:It could have been super strong and tiny.
Speaker 2:I've had edibles that are tiny, that are like 50 milligrams, and I've had edibles that are huge, that are like five Right Yeah, size in this situation doesn't fucking matter.
Speaker 1:It matters sometimes, but not in this. It doesn't matter. Know your dose. And it was one of those things where, like I had to learn the hard way, i'd never smoked weed, i didn't know what I was doing nothing, and so I learned by fucking it up. But I I was like that was a hundred percent my fault.
Speaker 2:You owned it.
Speaker 1:I did. I mean, it is what it is, And and I'm I'm sharing this because so you don't make the same mistake that I made. Yeah, And I'm proud I'll probably be the dumb ass on the podcast that will share the story about how I got fucked up on Delta eight. So here we are.
Speaker 2:I mean, i've had those types of situations before but now I just know, like I know my dose, i know that, like I don't have a high tolerance, so like five milligrams tops for me, like I know that like is like a baby amount to some people, but I know myself, i know my tolerance and five milligrams of cannabis gummies is.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm good. Yeah, i'm good. So, as far as like mushrooms go and the dosing and the amount, there are Amounts that you can take, there are recreational amounts, there are large amounts and they have names and these are things that you can search. There are websites for this. Dosecom is one of them.
Speaker 1:We've also on our Instagram, have posted slides about dosing.
Speaker 2:There's a micro dose that a lot of people are afraid of, because they just hear the word mushrooms and they start to freak out. But a micro dose is like a 10th to a 20th of an amount, that where you would feel something.
Speaker 1:So one of my favorite things to do that is more recreational is my favorite place on the planet is being by the ocean, in the ocean, and so my favorite thing to do is to take a micro dose and sometimes a little bit larger than a micro dose and go to the beach. And it's when I take a micro dose, it's not something where I'm like, oh yeah, i'm fucked up, i'm in the water and I'm seeing shit and fractals and there's unicorns and rainbows.
Speaker 1:It's more like Wow, i'm really present and I really am aware of everything around me and I notice how beautiful everything is and I feel very connected to the water or just being outside or Being present with whoever I'm with in that situation, like it's more of the noise gets taken out and I'm just like truly in the moment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let me add to that. So there is like the micro dosing amount. That is a very, very small amount. There is like a museum dose that they call it, where it's like enough that you feel good You can. I think they call it that because you can fucking go to a museum and like you're not so fucked up that people notice or you're not like seeing shit, you're just having a really good time, kind of like what you're saying.
Speaker 1:Yeah On that. it makes me more aware of what I'm doing.
Speaker 2:Yes, and the times that I have done a little bit more than a micro dose at on a vacation or at the beach. You know it's not every day And I might get a little pushback for this, but I'm going to say it anyway. I have said before it enhances my experience because of what you just said. Like I'm watching my kids play in the sand, i'm playing with them in the sand, i am more present, i am like this is such a beautiful day, this is such a good memory to have with my family and with myself, and just being here and my kids are going to like I'm so much more grateful for the things And also what you said it quietes the noise. This is where I might get a little bit of a pushback, and I also read this the other day when I was reading the same thing about like people who like the taste of alcohol have tend to have more of a chance of having a problem with it.
Speaker 2:People who say it enhances my experience. What it was saying about that specifically with alcohol, was is it enhancing your experience or is it helping you numb some things? And the reason I'm saying that is I am around a lot of people who drink to enhance their experience. Yeah, you are, and for me, i'm like I don't mean. I have a very hard time saying this because I feel like it's going to come across as judgmental, but I'm just comparing the two. Okay, yeah, you and I we take like 0.5, you know, grams of half a gram of mushrooms, maybe a gram, and it's like something we take in the morning and then like we're feeling grateful and present all fucking day. Someone who has to drink to enhance their experience is finish a drink, get another one. Finish a drink, get another one. Finish a drink, get another one. Are you seeing the difference?
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, and also let's just talk about like are you trying to get drunk or are you trying to play with your kids Right, Look at the day for what it is. I have a very hard time understanding how it's the same thing. That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 1:Well, and but for me too, like let's just talk about the sheer science of it. Like we know what? well, I guess we don't really know all of it because there's still so much to learn about psilocybin, but we know it reduces inflammation in the brain. We know that there are a lot of benefits to it. We also know that alcohol is a literal toxin. That is no benefits. A fact, It's a fact. It's not an opinion, it's a fact And so there are zero benefits.
Speaker 1:Zero And whereas you know psilocybin, like at Johns Hopkins, it's used as a form of treatment to treat addiction, bulimia, anorexia, anxiety, depression, you know, smoking addiction, Like there are reasons why people do this and reasons why people do it like a certain amount to be more present with their family. When I went to the beach, i was like, oh my gosh, do you guys notice like the clouds right now? Yeah, like they're beautiful And you're not fucked up And bringing my phone. I'm like, oh God, i don't even know.
Speaker 2:I don't even want to look at it.
Speaker 1:Fuck with that Like. That's so low vibrational. I want to be here. I want to be here And I always like we always have to, you know do stuff on social media and and I do love that part, but it's just, sometimes it's a lot And when I take that like micro dose or, you know, museum dose or whatever it's I, i want to break from that And I just want to like be here in the now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. I think the reason I'm saying that is because I felt judged.
Speaker 1:Because of psilocybin.
Speaker 2:Mm, hmm, like it was very much a. well, you know, i'm doing the same thing you're doing. No, they're not the same. I'm also enhancing my experience.
Speaker 1:But they are factually not the same thing and they factually do not have health benefits similar to one another.
Speaker 2:So I guess I should say that That wasn't like a way of like judging, it was like a way of defending myself, like they are very different in that way.
Speaker 1:I think you worry too much, but that's another topic for another day.
Speaker 2:Well, and also like the thing that I was saying, like, are you enhancing your experience or are you numbing or escaping something? Another thing that it was saying was or can you not have a good time sober? Do you feel like you have to have this to, maybe you know, be around people, to be social around people, to relax your nervous system, to have a day where you're not working. Is this something that you have to have?
Speaker 1:Well, we don't have to have it Right, right, and I think about Jason. Yeah, i think about Jason.
Speaker 2:My husband, who's been recovering alcohol.
Speaker 1:Right, but it you know him being on the spectrum, alcohol was a way for him to be able to. He thought to be able to connect with people, but they weren't real authentic connections because they weren't connecting about anything like deep. It was like, oh, i can talk, let's get fucked up, and I can get fucked up at this party and then now I can be talked and be social and talk to girls.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and everybody's just as fucked up as I am.
Speaker 1:So it's very.
Speaker 2:I'm not the odd one out, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Which kind of goes into the next point. Okay, let's hear it. Mixing substances.
Speaker 2:Oh fuck.
Speaker 1:Okay. So like I don't recommend, you know, taking that micro dose or a museum dose and then going to a bar and drinking a bunch of alcohol. I don't recommend that at all.
Speaker 2:No, i also think this is gonna probably sound a little woo-woo Girl. If you're here, hi, welcome. Welcome to the woo-woo side of shit. I think there are substances that have a higher vibration than others.
Speaker 2:I think they're like literally, literally bad, literally bad. Alcohol is a depressant, opiates depressant. There are substances that, vibrationally, are going to bring you down, like it's a fact. Yeah, and it's the same with like substances that are uppers. I'm not saying like you should mix those either, but vibrationally like there are just substances that you should not mix. Yeah, i think there are probably some people who could do a large dose of psilocybin and maybe have a drink if they don't have a problem with drinking, but I don't wanna do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I also know it's really you know good to. I've heard this. Terrence McKenna talks about this actually mixing cannabis and mushrooms and psilocybin.
Speaker 1:I've done that.
Speaker 2:Same. Well, here again, i didn't do it my first time because I wanted to experience the mushrooms by themselves, Absolutely same, But that goes with also.
Speaker 1:you know, we've learned along the way with what we're doing, but I have ADHD and I don't think I've ever shared this. The reason why I kind of do like using cannabis is because it helps me focus.
Speaker 2:I have really fucking does for you. I have witnessed this firsthand where I'm like girl, you need to be high all the time because you were so focused, So it doesn't do that for me.
Speaker 1:And that's why I went into the career path with fitness. That I went into because, like I like it is so and I don't think people understand And I get like I don't even really understand it myself, but like it is hard for me to sit at a computer or it is hard for me to sit at a desk and somebody just lecture me on whatever it is that they're teaching. I can't focus, and I know that that is a result of trauma and learning how to like disassociate and whatever, but it is what it is. It's very hard. So you know, we got we have these like hydration packets that have THC in them And I it got sent to us And so we took it and then we had a meeting.
Speaker 1:I have never been so focused for a CU on the other side meeting than I was in that meeting. It just it does help me. So like the mushrooms make me really aware and, you know, very present, and also the edible and the cannabis make me very focused on what I'm doing And it really does help. I really do struggle with focusing. It's it's a problem.
Speaker 2:Yes, I've noticed that too, But it's also to say like it doesn't do that for me. So you know we are different strokes for different folks you know, I don't like being high for stuff like that. I can't focus, which probably shows that I don't have ADHD.
Speaker 1:For sure, like we were. We were talking about Theo Vaughn earlier and I'm like that man has ADHD cause he says the most random ass, fucking shit. And I feel it in my soul, i relate to it.
Speaker 2:So what was that one about mixing substances? I also think that that like also goes with mixing this medicine with SSRIs and SNRIs and medications or any type of mood stabilizer, like know what you're doing before you do it. You are taking a risk by not knowing. You are setting yourself up for failure by not knowing. Yeah, There.
Speaker 1:It literally just happened. Yesterday I met a woman and she had heard through somebody about what I did And so she was asking me all about like doing a heroic large dose and wanted to know like about it. Well, she's on well butrin. I'm like I don't think. I don't think that's a good idea. She's also really like in the thick of it with her personal life And I'm like I understand why you're on well butrin with. You know everything that you're experiencing, but I think, like what you're going through in your personal life and then also what you're taking, i don't think that this is the right time. Not the right time, and it's okay. It's okay, but you know we are here because we want you to do it safely, so then it is effective.
Speaker 2:I don't think we talk about it enough, like the safety of this and how important it is to do this safely Right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and, like I said, just we're trying to keep you from having a bad trip.
Speaker 2:Okay, challenging, challenging trip. We're trying to help you, yeah.
Speaker 1:Which kind of goes into the next point, because that woman that I was talking to she's got a lot going on at home And you know you did this where the first time you did a heroic dose, you didn't have support in this space And she doesn't have that And I'm like I don't.
Speaker 1:You know we use that polluted fish and polluted water analogy, but it fits so well where it's like Say it again for anybody who hasn't heard it Yeah, So it's if you have a fish, a sick fish, in a polluted water and you take it out and you get it healthy and it's all good, but then you put it back into that polluted water, it's gonna get sick again. It's the same thing with, like, your support system. If you've got like a lot going on at home, let's say there's abuse or cheating or just people who just don't get it and they aren't going to support you or understand, it may not be the right time because I think humans, we need a community Like that is how we thrive. Like there have been studies where, like babies who don't get any love, attention, like support, encouragement, like it will literally kill them.
Speaker 2:There's another study. I don't wanna get sidetracked, but I wanna talk about this. That Dr Carl. Come on. What's his name? Jung?
Speaker 1:Nope Carl.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, the heroin guy, heart Heart, carl Hart.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Okay, so I don't wanna get sidetracked, but this goes for the same thing like community having the support system, being in a healthy environment. So everyone has probably heard how addictive cocaine is. He did these studies with rats, where he has these rats in a cage and they're giving them cocaine to see how quickly these rats become addicted.
Speaker 1:Oh, those poor little rats, I know.
Speaker 2:I hate animal studies.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, but go on.
Speaker 2:So these rats become addicted. They're in these cages alone and, of course, they become addicted. That's how they test whether something is addictive or not. in a lot of these studies and trials, he does the same study where he puts rats with other rats and in an environment that mimics their natural habitat.
Speaker 1:Oh, so, in an environment where they are naturally going to like thrive yeah or be at their best.
Speaker 2:Yes, so not just a fucking empty cage alone with cocaine coming in at them, like these rats are like fiends, you know. But he puts them in an environment where they're healthy, safe and with people, and not with people with other little rat friends and rat family healthy little family A rat, mom a rat dad a little sister.
Speaker 2:There are no narcissist rats in this community. They don't fucking touch the cocaine, Shut the fuck up. So he does this to prove and to show that sometimes addiction has nothing to do with the substance or the person.
Speaker 1:Yeah, It's really the community and the support and the environment that they have and that they're in Well and how long did we learn I have depression because I have a chemical imbalance, or I have addiction because it runs in my family.
Speaker 2:There are zero genetic precursors for addiction.
Speaker 1:And I argue that it's trauma, which trauma usually is because lack of connection. Yeah, i saw this video yesterday and it literally hurt my heart. It was, i think, at SeaWorld, and it was a killer whale by himself in a pool And you know, like coming from the ocean, like they thrive where they can move.
Speaker 2:You really are Moana.
Speaker 1:They, i know, and they thrive with a pack Mm-hmm. And it was just in the pool and it was just like it wasn't swimming, it was staying stationary and it was just like wiggling its head and wiggling its tail And it just I could just feel the sadness.
Speaker 2:Like it was just so apathetic to its environment. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm literally like starting to tear up.
Speaker 2:I know I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:But, like humans, we are not meant to be alone. We need people who support us. We need people who hear us. We need people who are willing to try to understand us.
Speaker 2:We need that to thrive, and to what you were saying, like to have that support and that community and and the things that are going on in your life. Like I can say from experience. You know we've had someone ask us before if like this can cause depression.
Speaker 1:Good.
Speaker 2:And let me tell you why This totally good. After my first heroic journey, this was not mainstream. Yet This was not every corner, every news article all over TV, like I knew no one who had done this before. My husband didn't understand. He was still an alcoholic, very not on the same trajectory of growth or healing that I was not supportive.
Speaker 2:No friends in this space that I could open up to and about a year in, because I tried really hard to make it work I didn't have an integrative therapist at the time. I had my regular therapist, who knew nothing about this.
Speaker 1:Right And you had friends, but you didn't have friends in this space. So it's like you can have friends and still feel very alone.
Speaker 2:It's just this. it's like the camaraderie of it, the community of it, like my friends, were as supportive as they knew how to be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but they don't know anything about anything in this space.
Speaker 2:No, and if you've done something like this, you know what I'm talking about. There is a difference in the way that you see the world and view the world and hear things, and you know it's. There's a difference. It's hard to explain if you haven't done it. But to not have anybody to go to, a year in I went right back into like one of the biggest depressive episodes I've ever had in my life. So no, it can't cause depression. I don't think No. But if you are not prepared or have some type of supportive environment or someone you can go to therapist, friend, spouse it will be very hard for you to thrive afterwards. Yeah, so community, is that what that one was? Community and support.
Speaker 1:Yep, just lack of support.
Speaker 2:Lack of support And what you said earlier psychedelicsupport.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know you might have a therapist that you love but they are not educated on psychedelic medicine. And if they are awesome, great, stick with them. If not, you don't have to break up with your therapist, but maybe seek someone out who can help you for a short period of time. Yeah, through this. Okay, what's the next one? Or did you have anything to add to that?
Speaker 1:No, that was good, fighting the experience. So I did this. I didn't fight it. But before I did my first heroic dose, i was a god damn mess because I was, because I, just I was scared Like I, someone coming from an abusive home, physically, emotionally, mentally, and I struggled with bulimia and anorexia because that was.
Speaker 1:It wasn't about food, it wasn't about my body, it wasn't about my weight, it was about control, Because everything around me was so chaotic And that was the one thing I felt like I could control. So I really struggled beforehand because I was like I can't, i can't go back to those memories, like I, if I do it all over again, i feel like I'll die, like I'll break, i'll break. I genuinely had those thoughts Like I can't, i can't emotionally handle it. And so I was worked up, worked up, worked up but you helped a lot with that And also like the meditation, like I kept being like, okay, go back to your intention, okay, like just breathe, whatever. And it was all that stress and it was like the most beautiful experience. But there are people who do try to control it, because they are control freaks, like how I was, and the more you surrender, the better the experience is going to be.
Speaker 2:The less you try to control.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and it's hard for a lot of us because that's like control is what we feel like is protecting us. That's like our survival instinct kicking in.
Speaker 2:I feel like anybody who has gone through some type of trauma which is a lot of people but extreme stuff. they are control freaks. It might look different. Yeah, in the things, in the ways that they control.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But it's like grasping something.
Speaker 1:Right, Because you have like, you have OCD and like some perfectionism where I don't have any of that. For me, the control is the people around me, if they're really chaotic and whatever, And I feel like they're too much or too, like I can't do it, Like I was in a situation I don't want to indulge too much to spill who it is or what happened, But I was in a situation where I was with somebody and I couldn't control that. I was with them for an extended period of time And this person is very OCD, very type A, Intense, Very intense, very loud, very aggressive, And I'm like loud but it's like bubbly and like bye squirrel, Like I don't know You know what I mean Where it's just like no, you're going to do this and you're going to do that And this is how this is going to go. And if it doesn't go this way, I'm going to lose my mind.
Speaker 1:That type of person And I couldn't leave And no escape. I had no escape And I literally would like go take a shower and sob. And after I got out of that situation it took me months to regulate myself because it took, even though, yes, that person was a lot. It's always much deeper than that And it took me back to that place of childhood where it was like I was around somebody just aggressive and you know, in your face and whatever, just a lot And like. It took me so long to like get down from that. It was and that's how I will always be because of my trauma.
Speaker 2:And that's fine, but I don't even know where I was going with that. I was going somewhere. I think it was about the control thing. Oh, yes, adhd.
Speaker 1:There it is, there it is, but yeah, so it's, it's, and it's hard because you don't know what's going to come up. You don't know at all, you don't know what the medicine is going to show you, and that's the hardest part about it is, you have to learn to let go and you have to learn to like, trust the medicine and surrender.
Speaker 1:Yeah, whatever the medicine is going to show you, it's going to show you what you need. So you can control the steps and the protocol and the safety part of it, but in regards of the actual experience and what you're going to experience, you cannot control that.
Speaker 2:You. the way that that was framed was fighting the experience. Is that what it said? Yeah, fighting it. There is this, this surrender that you kind of have to go through if you go through with a journey or something, and there are a couple of things to that. Like I think the word surrender gets a lot of, like people look at it as a negative word, like I'm not going to surrender to anybody, you know.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, yeah, you know what I mean, yeah.
Speaker 2:But it sounds like you're giving up on something. but there's a difference And I want to say this like giving up on something or giving up is loss of faith, and to surrender to something is having faith. Oh, that's so good. So I try to encourage people. like you know, you can't fight it once you take the medicine. Yeah, it's coming.
Speaker 1:You can prolong the uncomfortable part of it, Well, and it's almost like you can't run from it The more you fight it, the more you prolong it the harder it gets and the harder it gets the more uncomfortable it feels, so the best thing you can do is just surrender.
Speaker 1:Well, and when I did my first stop fighting it, when I did my first journey, it felt like when I first went in. First of all I didn't like I was. I had a hard time just like putting my mask on and and laying back because I was like I can't do this. I see a lot of trippie shit and it's freaking me the fuck out Like I've never done anything like this. And then you know it was like okay, just trust it.
Speaker 1:It's not gonna last long, and it's true. Like you know, i saw some weird stuff and it's almost like I was going into a portal into my own mind. And then it was like I was there, and when I was there, i didn't have visuals, but I felt a lot of uncomfortable feelings And I was just like, ok, what do you need to do? All right in the back of my head, go back to your intention. Ok, so that was let it go. Ok, meditation, go back to your breath. And then I kept saying you got this. You got this because I'm like it's happening, so I might as well like sit back in and put put the fucking right and even if it is uncomfortable, put my big girl panties on and, ok, intention breath, you got this.
Speaker 1:Intention breath, you got this, intention breath, you got this. And, sure enough, every uncomfortable feeling Got a little better and better and less severe And I got more confident with myself and that I can get myself through goddamn anything. And then when I came out of it, i'm like I'm on top of the fucking world. Let's fucking go, baby.
Speaker 2:Let's go, let's go, that's it. Though, like you to me, i'm like I would rather surrender to it and get it over with. Yeah, because I know, no matter what comes up, i'm going to be OK. I'm going to be OK, i'm going to get through it. I'm safe And I'm going to come out of it on the other side better than I was going in. So part of me now is like I just want to get this fuck over with. Come at me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, surrender me with it, i'm not going to fight it And it's true, like you, literally you can't run from it, like you can't throw it up, you can't take something that's going to make it go away, like you have to sit through it. So you can fight it all you want, but you're going to have a very challenging experience if you're fighting it the whole time. Someone sent me a YouTube the other day and it was Terence McKenna. It was a friend of mine And if you don't know who Terence McKenna is, he is like the man of mushrooms who coined the heroic journey five grams in a dark room by yourself, started that whole movement. And he said in the video sometimes it's not that we're not that we're taking too much.
Speaker 2:It's not that you're taking too much where you don't have the experience that like is transformative. Sometimes it's that you're taking too little because the more you take, the less you have. You are able to fight it. Like it's like going to knock you the fuck out. It's going to knock you on your ass. It's going to show you what you need to see. But if you take too much, you're going to have to fight it. It's going to knock you on your ass. It's going to show you what you need to see. But if you take too little, if you take like a smaller amount, like it's just really uncomfortable and it's easier for you to fight it because you're not quite over that threshold. Does that make sense to you? Oh, totally, and you and I don't know if that'll make sense to someone who's never done it.
Speaker 1:Right, but you and I are very much so like.
Speaker 2:Yellow.
Speaker 1:Fuck it, let's go, baby. You know we are the experimenters, for sure, and so for me, i'm like this is what you recommend, like, i will Like. I'm somebody who, if you're like or if I know like, all right, you need to chop off your finger and you do this, that's gonna bring you peace and healing, and whatever. I'm like, all right, choppy, chop, chop. Like, let's go. I'm somebody who I will go to, like the darkness and deep stuff to get to the other side.
Speaker 2:Probably because we've been through it.
Speaker 1:We said that before too. Yeah, I'm like I've got CPTSD, like What have? I got to lose, Right I've like literally been abused for most of my life. What the fuck do I have to lose if it's gonna bring me some like peace and serenity and like Let's go?
Speaker 2:So fighting the experience will probably put you in a situation where the trip is gonna be much more challenging than it should be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's good. Okay, all right, we kind of went into this. But the next one is unresolved traumas. Okay, and we kind of talked about this in the micro dose episode before, where it's like, if you're kind of not doing the work and you've really been through a lot of trauma and then you just wanna go right into diving into a five gram heroic dose, you're probably not ready, it's probably gonna rock your fucking world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like you and I were doing therapy. We're doing a lot of other things. There was a desperation in the sense like we just wanted peace, but we were willing to do other things and we had been doing other things before because we were searching for that peace.
Speaker 2:I do feel like that goes back to you know the unresolved trauma. Like you don't have to like heal all your trauma, no, but it's like know that you've got some shit Yeah. Know that something might come up for you, like avoid surprises, like maybe you know, have some self-awareness. And I did a little bit before my first trip, like I had done so much work, but the self-awareness part for me I had it, but I didn't. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:Here's a good example I could think of Okay, if you're a narcissist and you go and do a heroic journey, you're probably gonna come out of that journey still being a fucking narcissist, because you have no awareness of yourself, there's no accountability And there's no like. All right, what do I need to change? Because you projected onto everybody else.
Speaker 2:You would just see it as a good trip. What You would just see it like, i think a narcissist would probably be like what else Fun?
Speaker 1:Right, but it's not gonna be like again. I call it the show you your shit, because I came out of it and I was like, oh my God, i understand why I did the things that I did, because of the trauma that I experienced. but I'm not in that traumatic situation anymore Yet. I'm still living my life and having the same patterns like I was. So I have to change that. I am like sabotaging and abandoning myself. I'm the problem. Hi, it's me. I'm the problem, it's me.
Speaker 2:The same thing.
Speaker 1:Which narcissist isn't gonna do that.
Speaker 2:No, And after my first trip and I did a TikTok about this we haven't shared it yet, but I recorded one where one of the things that my first trip taught me was that I was not a victim like I thought it was.
Speaker 1:You used to be.
Speaker 2:I used to be, i used to think I was, and it was like You were still in that victim mindset. I absolutely was. Even when I did my first trip because that part of the self-awareness wasn't there yet and it showed me like no, you're not, you can get out of this. You know what to do. You have to speak up for yourself. You have to stand up for yourself. You have to love yourself enough to know that you deserve more than what you're settling for.
Speaker 2:Ooh yeah, so there was like this awareness that I had after that I didn't before.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Does that make sense? Totally Okay. So what were we saying about that? Like unresolved trauma, like, i guess? just like sift through your shit first.
Speaker 1:Well, and it's kind of like what we talked about, like if you just lost a loved one.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Probably not the right time to go and just jump into a heroic dose.
Speaker 2:Right, right right.
Speaker 1:You gotta like there's some stuff you still gotta, you know, sit through a little bit And then maybe, once you're in a place where and I've said this before, but you know, if you're experiencing that like deep of trauma, that's you know, that may be a time where you do take an antidepressant just to get yourself through that phase. I don't necessarily agree with taking it long term, forever, but it might be because it's if you take a heroic dose. there might be a lot of feelings there that you're not necessarily ready to feel because you just went through something so traumatic.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I think that's a good question. The other thing that it's not on here, but I wanted to include making sure, like, if you have a history of like, a family history of like schizophrenia I would again psychedelicsupport where people can vet you to make sure that it is the right option for you, Or if you've had a That's a big one If you've had a history of like psychosis. Yeah, it might not be the right thing for you.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:So you know again, you have to know yourself, you have to advocate for yourself and, like you know, it worked for us, it works for a lot of other people. It may not be for everybody.
Speaker 2:Okay, so I need to add that one on there.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay. External triggers that's the last one. Okay, so like after I did a heroic dose, listen oops, oops oops, this bitch loves her. some fucking Bravo TV. Okay, housewives, you do, i do Like I. That's another ADHD thing. I hyper focus on things like that Interesting, like Game of Thrones. I am a fucking GOT in psychopedia. I know the characters. I'm like I know everything about, anything about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm like, I like it. No, i hyper fixate on this, but you're like do you remember da-da-da-da and da-da-da? I'm like, no, that was like season one 10 years ago. I remember names. I remember names of any of things.
Speaker 1:So right now I'm like super hyper fixated on Avatar 2 because I just watched it and it's all about water. It's so good I haven't watched it yet And I would totally watch it with you.
Speaker 2:I want to watch it on my rooms. Let's go girls night In this room on that TV. We.
Speaker 1:should go to Alyssa's house and have a girls night.
Speaker 2:Okay, allie, invite us over. Yeah, please, but.
Speaker 1:I like hyper fixate on things. Okay, adhd, where was I going? The external triggers Okay, okay, yeah, okay, yes. So after I did my hero dose, like a couple of days later, i turned on like real housewives, vanderpump rules, like all these things, and I was like, yeah, no, i'm not vibing with that right now. I am not. This is so low vibrational. I know this, i know, and I still love it. I know. But like after I was like I can't fuck with this for a while, it's I got to ease back into it.
Speaker 2:Like I got to ease back into that shit. Well, and another thing like an external trigger would be like being at a concert, Right, Like the people around you, the environment that you cannot control, Like to me that is like a control thing. Like you can't control shit at a concert. Or going out to a bar, Like you can't avoid people getting to a fight around you or you know. And another external trigger would be like having your kids or your dog around to like bring you out of an experience. Like if you're in, if you're in it and somebody rings the doorbell, like you're immediately probably going to start panicking.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'm talking about after. I can't imagine during, right, i can't imagine like taking too much and then going to like a heavy metal concert And I'm like, oh, i'm scared.
Speaker 2:Okay, so another thing, with another external trigger, would be the music that you're listening to. That matters. It makes such a huge difference. You would. I would prefer. I personally prefer to listen to music that was made for tripping.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and there, like, there is a Johns Hopkins psychedelic playlist that's like hours long And you know it's. It's okay If you're listening to a song and that song is taking you to a not good place and you are not vibing with it, it's okay to just change the song.
Speaker 2:Change it. Ask the person you're with to change it for you. That's okay.
Speaker 1:Say it out loud, say I don't like this song, yeah, i don't like. Yeah, i don't like where this is taking me And can you put on something? But again, if you're out in public you can't change it. You can't fucking change that shit If you're out in public you can't change if somebody's being really aggressive or, you know, obnoxious, or in your face, or they're overstimulating, whatever.
Speaker 2:There was a song that came on in one of my trips. It was Nine Into Nails And I can't remember the name of it, but it was like the every day is exactly the same. Have you heard that song? I'm not like an inch snail girl. It like repeats it. I got stuck in a loop, oh God, and I was like this fucking.
Speaker 1:Was that made?
Speaker 2:for tripping No.
Speaker 1:Okay, I was like that is a terrible song.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it came on during and I got stuck in this loop, and of course I did, because the song is literally, literally, by repeating itself, saying every day is exactly the same.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:No, oh my God. But after that trip I came out of that and I was like, oh my God, my situation isn't changing. I have to be the one to change it. Every fucking day in my life is exactly the fucking same. That was like before Jason got sober. Yeah, so that song had a purpose, but like in the moment it felt really dark. Yeah, but you know, sometimes those external triggers, and then there have been other times where, like what music? I know there was music playing the whole time. Like you know, also for our listeners, we have a Spotify.
Speaker 1:Yeah, plug it.
Speaker 2:In our bio. we have a link tree and our Spotify account is on there And I have carefully curated and provided.
Speaker 1:You're so good at that.
Speaker 2:Probably 85 playlists for you guys.
Speaker 1:Did you really do that many?
Speaker 2:I didn't make them all.
Speaker 1:Okay, no, no, no.
Speaker 2:I have found them and added them to our Spotify. Other people have made them. I have some that I have made, but they're not ready to share with the public yet I would be terrible at that. I will start a playlist and then Not finish it, not finish it, and they all have different themes, like I have a goddess playlist. I have, like a this is what peace sounds like playlist. Those aren't public to you guys, though, so sorry, i don't know about other.
Speaker 1:I thought you said this is what peace sounds like Peace. I know I figured that out.
Speaker 2:So if you go to our Spotify and you look at the playlist that we have on our account, we have the Johns Hopkins playlist, we have Saturday tripping playlist, we have playlist that Double Blind has put out, we have psychedelic playlist, we have MDMA playlist, we have LSD playlists Hell yeah, there are so many different types of playlists. If you are the type of person who prefers music and not lyrics, there are those playlists on there. There are positive affirmation playlists.
Speaker 1:Hell yeah.
Speaker 2:All of this stuff matters when you are going into your mind.
Speaker 1:Well, and like I even just think about the power of music anyways, yeah, like if I'm sad, you are really good at this, really being sad and in your feelings and like listening to like that emo music You know, like you're not gonna be at a party listening, and like that stuff matters, especially when you're doing this Madison, using this Madison, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:So Is that all?
Speaker 1:That's all I got.
Speaker 2:There is one more thing that I wanna add to all of this, and we don't have to go deep into it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you better hurry up, cause I got a pee.
Speaker 2:Okay, the last thing, something you can do to help mitigate a bad trip, to help prevent that from happening, is don't go into it expecting a bad trip.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's good. Yeah, stop manifesting that shit.
Speaker 2:Words matter Energy matters, thoughts matter, vibrations matter, and you know how many people, and I have someone doing this right now. Well, i'm just gonna expect a bad trip, because you know, if I expect it then I won't be shocked by it. If I expect it then I won't be scared when it happens. No, don't even put that energy out there.
Speaker 1:Well, and here's the other thing, like, if you like are doing the work and doing, like all of the right protocols and the safety measures, like trust that you are doing the right thing and also trust that the medicine will do its part back.
Speaker 2:Right, You will be rewarded. So I will even go as far as to say stop using the word bad. I know I hate that. Stop saying that You can. You can go into it, saying you know what. It may or may not be challenging, i don't know. Take that expectation out of it. That's another part of control is like having these expectations Take it out of it. It may or may not be challenging, but know that whatever happens was what you needed.
Speaker 1:That and, like you, are oftentimes doing this because of something challenging that you experience in your life that was incredibly unfair, traumatic, whatever, and you survived it. Yeah, and this is going to be something that is a medicine that is going to help you thrive from it, not just survive it. And you know you've gone this far, trust that this is going to do you well and you are going to come out on the other side Wink, wink, no, no, you are going to come out on the other side with a lot more clarity, piece, whatever it is that you needed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, it's going to be good, no matter what Pee-pee time Okay.
Speaker 1:Wrap it up.
Speaker 2:That's it, folks. Good closing.
Speaker 1:That's it. Bye.