49 | How To Know If You're Ready For an Intentional Psychedelic Journey

Are you thinking about going down the psychedelic healing path?  How do you know if you're ready for a journey? In this episode, we share our personal experiences with therapy, medication, and other tools that have supported us along the way, and provide valuable harm reduction and education for those considering this path. We also discuss the importance of trauma-informed therapy, and why working with a therapist who is well-versed in psychedelics is crucial for a safe and meaningful experience.

Healing isn't an easy journey, and psychedelic medicine isn't a quick fix; it requires taking accountability for our own well-being and acknowledging that there's no magic pill. We cover natural supplements to support your journey, dive into the challenges of breaking generational trauma, and discuss integration work. Discover how confronting your past and actively working towards change can lead to a more peaceful existence and ultimately give you the capacity to be a light for others.

Navigating complex relationships and personal growth can be difficult, but it's essential to recognize when it's time to let go of stagnant connections. In this episode, we offer insights into our own experiences with having to cut ties and how to communicate these changes to friends and loved ones.

Don't miss this information-packed conversation as we guide you through the complexities of healing, friendships, and self-care on your healing journey with psychedelics.  And stay tuned for more episodes to help guide you on this journey.

1:1 Discovery Calls
Are psychedelics right for you on your healing journey? Book a discovery call to ask us anything.

Colors
Use code OTHERSIDE15 for 15% off

Microdosify
Use code SYOTOS for 10% off

https://www.buzzsprout.com/1982724/support

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:20

So today is my Grados episode. This is the first one we're doing, and we want to do a series of these for our listeners who really want to learn more about what we're doing in detail.

Speaker 2: 0:33

Yeah, And I think yeah, people who we get messages all the time and it is people who want to get started.

Speaker 1: 0:42

Yeah, They don't even know where to start. That's literally one of the biggest questions, Like how do I get started? Yeah, Where do I start. And like where do I get mushrooms? But that one we'll get into that later, Right?

Speaker 2: 0:53

So I think the important thing for this episode it being our first microdose is to how to know if you are even ready for this journey, Because I think some people think that they are and they may not be. There are just a lot of things to consider that we want to go over today.

Speaker 1: 1:17

Well, and when I first started guiding people, I didn't really Oh, you're sharing that publicly. huh, I feel like we've done it before. Somebody outed me once and I was okay with it. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:31

Somebody outed us the other day.

Speaker 1: 1:34

Oh, yeah, yeah, They did on Instagram. It's okay. This is for our VIP listeners. So, yes, anyway. So when I first started guiding people, i didn't really do anything. I do this whole like sitting down with them making sure they were ready. Ah, i just did it because they asked me to.

Speaker 2: 1:53

How'd that go?

Speaker 1: 1:54

Didn't go well, which is when I started to learn that not everybody's ready for this Right And not everybody is willing to put in the work, and I had some people who were looking for a very quick fix and I didn't realize it at the time, but afterwards it kind of dawned on me. So I think now I do meet with people and I make sure that they are doing the work.

Speaker 2: 2:23

And I'm going to let the cat out of the bag because you guided me to That experience went really, really well for me because I took everything that you said very seriously, so I think that it resulted in me having a better experience. Yeah, so, and I knew that, like I wasn't just going to do this and that was okay, i did a mushroom journey. I'm good, like I don't have to do any work, no, like it's a continuous thing, and but I was ready for that.

Speaker 1: 2:53

Well, and I think when I, when we did that too, i had already learned that lesson a few times, you know. so I'm not afraid now to meet with someone and say I don't think you're ready for this yet. Yeah, i think before I was like I was still a little bit of a pupil, pleaser.

Speaker 2: 3:11

So I was just going to say that I wouldn't do it because they wanted it. Well, and you don't want that confrontation. No you know, but also, at the end of the day, like you could do a lot of damage. They could do a lot of damage if they're, if you're not ready for it, it could do more harm than good.

Speaker 1: 3:29

Yes.

Speaker 2: 3:30

And that's kind of what I want to talk about, because I do know somebody who did this was not ready actually, you know, did it in a terrible setting at a bar out of the country and accidentally took a heroic dose at a bar First time, first time And it has traumatized her because she was not ready.

Speaker 1: 3:58

So I feel like I know several people who have done that, who weren't ready for what it was about to show them, but I love what you said about doing more harm than good, because I think what these micro dose episodes really are going to be about is harm reduction.

Speaker 2: 4:14

Yeah, yeah, very educational.

Speaker 1: 4:16

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 4:17

With our own little Leah Christine spin to it.

Speaker 1: 4:19

Yeah, obviously, because we're not the scientific ones.

Speaker 2: 4:25

No.

Speaker 1: 4:26

We just dumb it down.

Speaker 2: 4:27

We dumb it down for you.

Speaker 1: 4:30

We dumb it down for you guys.

Speaker 2: 4:32

Welcome to micro dose, because we have to Welcome to micro doses with dumb and dumber.

Speaker 1: 4:36

Dumber and dumber. Oh, my God Love that. Okay, so today's episode is how to know if you're ready. Okay, so get into it.

Speaker 2: 4:44

Let's get into it. I have these in steps, and the first step is that this cannot be your first line of defense, right? So, speaking from my experience and I know you two, we were doing a lot of things beforehand. You and I both knew that we grew up in traumatic childhoods. You and I did therapy, trying to think of other things that we did.

Speaker 1: 5:12

We did try medication, yeah, both of us. Oh gosh, i totally forgot about that Yeah, i did a lot of therapy. I did too, So not being your first line of defense. What we mean by that is making sure that you have other tools in your toolbox, I guess? Yeah, I think I jumped around and I didn't mean to do that, but you kind of did but that's okay.

Speaker 2: 5:38

But I think it's. you know, i think sometimes I give talk therapy some flak Cause sometimes I don't think that it really really gets to the nitty gritty, in the root of a lot of things. And sometimes I think that we subconsciously have these toxic habits and patterns, that a therapist is not like, that could take so much time And that therapist is really getting to know you, to really understand you to that level.

Speaker 1: 6:13

But I do think it's a good foundation, yeah Well and how many people have we interviewed who are therapists, who are trauma informed, who weren't trauma informed before and kind of switched their practice to become trauma informed, and how many of them have said not all therapists are trauma informed Right?

Speaker 2: 6:34

And I think kind of all therapists have to be trauma informed. They should be, they should be, but I don't think they are. I think it should be imperative though, because, you know, i let's say, you know, tony and I we've we've done couples therapy too, and I've done individual and let's say we're presenting something that we are struggling with. Every single time It's deeper than the situation in itself. Yes, i may be triggered because something that happened in my childhood, he's triggered by something that happened in his childhood. So, yes, we may be arguing about a certain situation, but it is always so much deeper than that It's not about that situation No.

Speaker 2: 7:17

And and I think that's something that I really learned with with mushrooms and really learning that that was the missing thing when I did go to therapy.

Speaker 1: 7:26

Yeah, for all that time.

Speaker 1: 7:27

You know we did couples therapy so many different times and we had probably four or five different therapists over the last 17 years And it wasn't until our last one Dr Shealy shout out, our psychiatrist where we really dug because we had a therapist one time. You know, for some of you who don't know, my husband is recovering alcoholic and we would fight about having date nights and him drinking and drinking and getting drunk and ruining the date night, And our therapist at that time was just like, well, why don't you guys try doing something without drinking? And I was like, well, but that's not the problem, because we'll do that. And then the issues are still there.

Speaker 2: 8:09

Right.

Speaker 1: 8:10

Or then he's mad And I could tell that in those moments where he wasn't drinking and we were on a date, he didn't want to be there because he would rather be out drinking. So that happened a lot And there were a lot of times I would concede and be like, do you want to go to the bar after this, after dinner, and we would go and meet up with his friends. So he would. I would like get a better version of him. Anyway, that therapist, like that fucking advice on, like that's not really the problem. And then with Dr Shealy it was more like well, why do you feel like you need to drink? It wasn't like why don't you guys do something without drinking? It was why do you need to drink?

Speaker 2: 8:53

Yeah, why do you have to drink? to feel like you're having a good time, right?

Speaker 1: 8:57

And nobody had ever asked us that. So not all therapy is the same, but that's a whole topic in itself. So we can skip that part, yeah.

Speaker 2: 9:09

So the other thing that I have is which we've already done, but is therapy and support, Support. Support is huge. Um you, when you did your first journey, you did not have support. No, And how much of a struggle was that for you.

Speaker 1: 9:25

I have opened up before about how it led me into another depressive episode Like the worst, yeah, the worst depressive episode I've ever had. Like I'd never had suicidal ideations or thoughts before and this one I did. Yeah, and it was that lack of support. Um, Because I think about it now and it's wild, like three years ago I didn't know anybody who was doing this right.

Speaker 1: 9:51

Nobody talked about it. It wasn't as prevalent in social media or the news or on Netflix as it was, as it is now, and so that lack of support from like family and friends.

Speaker 2: 10:06

I can't even imagine, because I felt that and I'm your, two years ahead of me, and I have felt that. but I have Tony and I have you, know You and then I have one or two friends who, like, really get it or even if they're not in this space, they're really supportive, supportive, empathetic, great at listening and even just they want to understand it. Yeah, that's huge. But I think we are beings and I don't think people really realize this, but we are beings who really thrive Having community, yeah. and so when you don't have that community, especially when you're changing and growing because you know, we hear so often and we both have, you know, experience this to getting resistance from a lot of friends and family, even though you know that this is the right path, but they're just not on it.

Speaker 1: 12:16

Yeah, it's really hard, mm-hmm, it's really, really hard one of the other things about like the lack of Support is really for me personally, like I started to feel like I was going crazy.

Speaker 2: 12:32

Oh, I'm sure.

Speaker 1: 12:34

Because no one saw what I saw, no one heard what I. not that I was hearing shit, but like I would hear things differently, i would see things differently the world in a different way a completely brand new clean slate perspective and No one was seeing the way I saw.

Speaker 2: 12:52

Yeah, and I think that we are so conditioned and Mushrooms really decondition you yeah. And so I think a lot of times you see things for what they are instead of how you want them to be. I think we a lot of times just go through the motions of day-to-day life And maybe we don't really realize how fucked up we are. Yeah, our patterns are our thought process. Off processes are our Relationships. What's happening in the world?

Speaker 1: 13:19

I Mean so much but you know, what's beautiful now is that we have created this community and I'll be honest with you, like I don't think any different than I did three years ago, but like having other people right who feel and think the same, i'm like, oh, i'm not fucking crazy. and if I am, yeah, so is everyone else that is in my we are not meant to be alone No.

Speaker 2: 13:47

Yeah, we are not meant to be alone and be isolated, so having that community and having that support is really, really, really important. Going into these experiences.

Speaker 1: 13:56

Talking about that, you know I want to go into some of these clinical trials and studies that they have done in the past. Some of these people and we can talk about that too like the clinical trials and what that looks like, but because they're for the FDA and because they are not really funded in the way that they should be, the ongoing support isn't really there. So a lot of times they've had these people come out of these experiences with like really great results and then they go right back to their hometowns and right back to their abusive partners and Six months to a year later They're right back in the same state of distress that they were in before they started those Trials. So I think they're starting to learn that now or not learn it, but I feel like they're starting to.

Speaker 1: 14:50

Maybe Understand like that, how imperative it is Yes, and providing more support Longer after these trials happen.

Speaker 2: 15:00

So we always go back to this, but I think of Eric and Courtney, who own sanctuary Church here in Louisville, but before they had this mushroom church They lived in Jamaica and they did retreats and they said that it was hard because they would have this amazing You know, people would come and have this amazing experience with them and then they would leave and they would not know anything about.

Speaker 1: 15:22

Like The integration after right, because they're thrown right back into the hustle and bustle of the world, the culture we live in especially here in the US.

Speaker 2: 15:32

Everything is so go, go, go, and so much stuff is toxic.

Speaker 1: 15:36

Yeah so yeah okay.

Speaker 2: 15:38

Next thing And I kind of elaborate on this is you need to have other tools in your toolbox. So you know, leah and I have found a psychiatrist who is well-versed in This space and we continue to see him. You and I do breath work, we journal, we somatic healing. Somatic healing, we do embodiment circles. We do a lot of work on our own and Like we are fully prepared to have other types of things in our toolbox to help us.

Speaker 1: 16:17

Yes, i think that's a big one, because, well, they're all big ones but, um, i Used to get stuck on the fact that, like every six months to a year, i would feel like I needed to do another mushroom journey and I'd be like I can't believe, like I feel like I'm reaching for this, but then realizing, like, no, like, in between journeys, i have all these other tools that I can use.

Speaker 2: 16:39

Yeah, that's a good, that's a good way.

Speaker 1: 16:41

So there is the breath work and there is meditation and journaling, and I think that all of those are Imperative. Yeah to integration and also to have at the ready.

Speaker 2: 16:54

Yeah, and I think everything around us. Again, it goes back to that conditioning. So it's like you're working against that Which. That is constant work. Yeah, it's never ending. So Do you have anything else to add to that?

Speaker 1: 17:13

I want to talk about the fact that you mentioned that our psychiatrist is well-versed in psychedelics, because how many times have we talked to people whose therapists don't get it?

Speaker 2: 17:24

Well, didn't you have a therapist and you were educating her on psychedelics, Literally? so I was like this, isn't? I need someone who can educate me, who can help me integrate this and I think a lot of therapists are learning yeah, i'm getting curious And they're seeing the research and and all of the positivity around that But again, i think if you're gonna do this experience, you need to see somebody who is well-versed in this and they can help you with intention and integration integration, and You know maybe even how to source and all of those things.

Speaker 1: 18:01

So we have Talked about this before. But not only can they help with that, we've had someone before who was like but I have a therapist and I'm like that's great, not saying you should leave your therapist, but we use Dr Shealy as much as we use mushrooms. Here's the other thing.

Speaker 1: 18:18

It's like not Weekly, not monthly, but it's like, if we need help with integration, yeah, we see him. Yeah, if we need to help with setting an intention, we see him. It is not a. This is not a. This is our therapist that we see every week. Right, We.

Speaker 2: 18:32

but I think, but I think a lot of people like talk therapy because they feel like they can just go vent, yeah, but it's not necessarily like I'm sure it is like a release.

Speaker 1: 18:45

Totally, especially if you don't have anyone around you who's a safe person to them too.

Speaker 2: 18:51

Which I guess that ties into a later step which is kind of self-accountability, Yeah, so we'll get that. Okay, the next thing I have is medication. Ooh, I'll let you start. Oh, shit.

Speaker 1: 19:11

This is a question we get asked a lot And we borderline get angry when people are like I just came off my meds cold turkey.

Speaker 2: 19:23

Don't do that.

Speaker 1: 19:25

We are not condoning that anyone comes off their meds and definitely not saying that if you decide you want to, you should come off cold turkey. I don't care what it is, i really don't. You should never do that. It's dangerous. It's more dangerous like quitting something, like a psychotropic drug, cold turkey, than it is to wean off Yeah. However, in this context relating to maybe leading up to a journey or leading up to micro dosing, i think it's important to know what you're on and how it's going to affect micro dosing in general. A lot of SSRIs and SNRIs will not allow psilocybin to attach to your serotonin receptors because they are there already.

Speaker 2: 20:20

Right, so it's like two drugs counteracting each other, right?

Speaker 1: 20:24

I hate even saying mushrooms are a drug, but yeah, so medication, just knowing what you're on and the risks involved with taking a medication and also doing psychedelics at all Yeah, we can. I really want to go further into this in another episode.

Speaker 2: 20:49

I know, because I was going to say you know, i think that a lot of people think we're very, very anti medication, which I think it's overly used, it's definitely abused. I think that there are. It should maybe be the later lines of treatment, but I think that there are people who need it. They don't have the support, yes. They don't have the tools in their toolbox Yes, and for the time being, that is probably the best decision for them.

Speaker 1: 21:20

Yeah. So that's another thing too. Like, don't come off if you are not in a healthy, safe environment or you don't have tools in place to help with that. You know, one of the things I have people talk to me about coming off meds, and this is what I want to get into when we go further into this. But like, people are like but I can't sleep if I'm, if I'm anxious and I'm like but have you tried Ashwagandha at night? Have you tried L-thanine for your anxiety? Have you tried? there are so many other things to help support anxiety, to help support healthy sleep, to help support focus throughout the day, And I think that it's important to know those things So when you are weaning off, you can have a support of supplements under you.

Speaker 2: 22:10

Yeah, Does that make sense? Oh, for sure, And, and unfortunately, most people don't know though those things. No, my almost. It's not directed towards the people who are taking these medications. For me, my disagreement is directed at big pharma and our healthcare system. Yes, it's not at the people who are using these substances, because they're using it, because they feel like that's what they have.

Speaker 1: 22:39

What's that TikTok we watched today. that was talking about how natural supplements were like taken out of healthcare in the early 1900s, but it used to be like a very common thing.

Speaker 1: 22:51

It used to be healthcare It used to be part of healthcare these natural supplements, so honestly, i encourage you, or employ, employ you, is that a word? employ you to maybe use Google in this situation. What supplements that are natural can help support an anxious nervous system. Especially if you're deciding to wean off of a medication, like you, can't do it without having something underneath you to help support the things that you're going to be missing when you come off the meds.

Speaker 2: 23:26

Which that goes right into our next point, which is doing this can't come from a place of desperation.

Speaker 1: 23:35

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 23:36

So it's hard to explain, because I think you and I were. There was some desperation in the sense where we did want to feel better, yeah, but we were doing a lot of other things And I think both you and I were really ready and willing to do whatever it took, i think a lot of people you know and this is where some self accountability has to come in They're going, they want to get off medication, to go right into a mushroom journey because they don't want to feel things.

Speaker 1: 24:15

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 24:17

And that's not how that works And that's probably not a good place to start.

Speaker 1: 24:23

Well, and doesn't that kind of go into the next thing. Maybe what's the next thing?

Speaker 2: 24:29

Yeah, it does. The next one is you have to really be willing to sit with your shit a little bit.

Speaker 1: 24:37

So I was just guessing at that, but absolutely You're so smart. I mean, we did just put this together right before.

Speaker 2: 24:46

I was joking, but you are smart, thanks, thanks, no, i think it's. You know, people message us and they're like you know, i'm on this and I hate taking my antidepressants and I want to do this mushroom journey. And I think you know, for me, i took my anti anxiety medicine because I wanted to numb those feelings Right, instead of realizing like, okay, I have anxiety for a reason, where is this coming from? Yeah, i need to sit with it a little bit. And so, with mushrooms, i really had to learn to sit with a lot of uncomfortable feelings and not avoid them or push them off or, you know, press them down, like I had to sit with it and process it. It's just interesting that we live in a world where you are not really allowed to express anger. And, again, it has to be productive, right? Yeah?

Speaker 1: 25:40

But like or sadness really is a healthy emotion.

Speaker 2: 25:44

Yeah, sadness is a healthy emotion, along with happiness, and you know all of that. But it's just like we are so again conditioned to think that those feelings are bad, they're not normal. And they're not normal, but they are Absolutely, they're a necessity, because now human beings should feel those things.

Speaker 1: 26:07

The wild thing to me in that moment I was like that's how I knew I needed to come off meds is when I was watching a movie and didn't cry. Yeah, i was watching a really, really traumatic scene And I was like, okay, this is not. Why is this scene not making me feel some type of way Like yeah, it's sad, but I'm not tearing up, i'm not like sad about it. Like, and that's when I literally knew that I'm. I was numbing.

Speaker 2: 26:38

Yeah, here's. The other thing is I have a lot of my life been told I'm too extra Mm. Hmm, too loud.

Speaker 2: 26:48

Too emotional Too sensitive, too sensitive, just too much, where now I'm like, oh my gosh, that is your superpower, that I can feel things so deeply. I can be very in tune with other people. People feel like I'm a safe space because for everyone else or for growing up, i felt like I was too much for everyone else And I had to like dim it down and whatever. And now I'm like you know what? I watch a movie and it's really sad And I cry and I feel it. Or I see something bad happen and I feel that too. Obviously I have to manage it and that's working itself.

Speaker 1: 27:28

But it's a gift. Yeah, 100%. I think that it's important to feel I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say it, but I think that that's what's like a lot of what's wrong with the world today is that people aren't feeling enough. You gotta feel to heal Yeah yeah, yep.

Speaker 2: 27:50

So which goes into our next point, which I feel like we've kind of already set it in a roundabout way. but this Madison, it is not a magic pill.

Speaker 2: 28:03

No it's not a magic pill at all. So if you kind of have the mindset that you think that this medicine is going to cure you of all of the things and fix your life, it's not true, and I guess what I should say is you're the medicine. Yeah, you are your own medicine. They may be a catalyst and they may show you some things that you need to change and you need to. You have toxic patterns that you need to break, but at the end of the day, you are the one who has to do it and change it and do the work and hold yourself accountable.

Speaker 2: 28:44

So there is no magic pill.

Speaker 1: 28:48

No, no Shit. I was gonna say something about one of the first things that you said about that, just the not being a quick fix. I guess I wanna say with that I think when we first started this podcast, a lot of people saw where we were and thought that mushrooms did that.

Speaker 2: 29:42

How many times did somebody tell you oh, my God, you look so happy, you look at peace, you're glowing, yeah, and I'm like well, you didn't see the dark stuff.

Speaker 1: 29:52

Thank you because that's You did not see the dark shit. That's exactly what I wanna say. Like we didn't start this podcast coming out immediately of our first trips, like we had integrated, we had gone through some fucking dark, dark, dark shit, like I, you know, and we still are. We still are, but you've oh, this is where I was going with that, you've said it before where it's like I still have anxiety. Yeah, i just it's not debilitating anymore, and now I know, when I'm having anxiety, to sit with that and try to understand where and why it's there.

Speaker 2: 30:30

And I think the difference now is before I was so disconnected with myself. Yeah, being in fight or flight mode, i was always anxious, yeah, and then it was like I would get like an anxiety or panic attack, where now I am much more connected to myself. So when I feel like I'm starting to, you know, go off a little bit and get detached from myself, then I'm like okay, dude, what do I need? Do I need another mushroom journey? Do I need, do I need, to go see Dr Shealy? Is this triggering something that happened in my childhood? Yes, 100%.

Speaker 1: 31:10

It's like who said this to us in an episode I think it was, maybe Alexis, maybe maybe Where she said the opposite of addiction isn't sobriety, it's connection.

Speaker 2: 31:23

Yeah, it was her Okay.

Speaker 1: 31:25

I want to use that a little bit because it's like. to me, the opposite of like anxiety isn't not having anxiety, it's connecting to yourself. To me, anxiety is a disconnect from your true self. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2: 31:41

Same, yeah, and it's like with depression, like yes, there's sadness, but there's anger under that sadness. So much, there's so much anger that has not been addressed. And I don't think that's talked about enough.

Speaker 1: 31:53

Jim Carrey. The way he explained depression really, really resonates because he said it's like deep rest. It's your body's way of telling you it needs to take a deep rest from the mask that you've been putting on and playing this role for everyone around you. So I think that there is we are not saying you do this and you will never have anxiety again or you will never have depression again. It's almost like you become friends with it.

Speaker 2: 32:21

Yeah, well, and it's like what we were talking about earlier before we started recording How we really have it opposite So often. So, and what I mean by that is we have this mentality of like doing easy things, which results in a harder life, instead of doing the hard things and the hard work to have an easier life And I don't mean easy, because you're still doing the hard things and the things that are very challenging, but it's to have more peace within yourself.

Speaker 1: 33:01

I was literally just about to say it's to have a more peaceful existence, because I don't think the goal in life is to be happy. Happiness is like fleeting. I think that the goal is to have a peaceful existence. Yes, you can be happy and sad at the same time.

Speaker 2: 33:15

Right, and life is hard, but it's like choose your heart, yeah So, and a lot of us don't wanna do the hard things now, we wanna put them off and then have the hard life, yeah So, okay. So somebody messaged us on TikTok Actually, they didn't message us. They commented on one of our TikTok videos, who And they said something in do you know what I'm talking about? I do know what you're talking about. He said something like I really, really wanna do this, but I feel like if I do this, my life is gonna change so much And I don't know if I'm ready for that.

Speaker 1: 34:02

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 34:03

And my response to that was well, maybe it's not the right time, because for this to work, you have to be willing to change and you have to be willing to lose people, and lose a lot of people and things that you are attached to. Yes, because to change you gotta change, and that means changing yourself. It may be changing your relationships, it may be changing the things that are around you, changing your job, absolutely about the same changing your career, Changing your friendships, romantic relationships, changing the way that you parent.

Speaker 1: 34:45

Nothing changes If nothing changes. So if you are unwilling to make changes or here's another thing if you think the changes come from other people or things, you're absolutely wrong. The change has to come from you. You cannot change other people. You can't. So when you are maybe in a relationship with someone who is toxic, when you come out of something like this, you are not gonna change that person. What has to change is your relationship with that person.

Speaker 2: 35:21

I think about our parents. Most of our parents come from the boomer generation. They're very set in their ways. A lot of this information with mental health and healing is new for them. It's new for all of us. Yeah, i think we are more willing to see it and sit with it and change where they maybe aren't Not saying that for all, but I think it's.

Speaker 1: 35:48

It's very rare to see that in a lot of older generations And for me.

Speaker 2: 35:54

I think it was hard, because I wanted to change my mother's mindset about things, or I wanted her to see some of the things that have happened throughout my childhood that were toxic, that I wanted her to be more empathetic, more emotionally available. So this goes into the next step, which is you have to be willing to grieve people that you're probably gonna lose, and if you don't lose them, maybe that dynamic changes a little bit. Grieving that dynamic for sure.

Speaker 2: 36:37

So I've had to really learn to appreciate her for what she is. You know, i have not let that relationship go, but there are things that I struggle with, but I've learned with Dr Healy that I have to give them to myself. I have to give. I'm not necessarily gonna get it from my mom or my dad, i have to get it from me. And so with that, though, came some anger and some grief that like, well, why do I have to do this? But this person has, like, really, you know, amazing parents, or an amazing mom or an amazing dad, and they're so supportive, and I don't get that. Why do I have to do everything on my own? Yeah, there was a lot of anger that came with that There's still.

Speaker 1: 37:32

You know, i struggle with that anger still because, from where I am now and what I've learned and done throughout this journey, when I have people close to me, family reach out and ask for help.

Speaker 1: 37:52

I get angry because I'm like, where were you when I needed help? Or you know, i'm gonna like tear up thinking about it, but like, of course I am fucked, like I get very angry that I had to do this alone, without support. and now you're coming to me and you, it's not even like a. they don't. they want me to help them, but they don't even know what it means to have to do the work. Yeah, does that make sense? Yeah, you know what I'm talking about.

Speaker 1: 38:24

But, it's like they want to learn how to be where I am, because I don't think we've talked about this, but in the earlier episodes I didn't have a relationship with my mom for like 10 years and now she's like back in my life, but in a very different way. You put some boundaries on that. I 100% did, and I also let go of some resentment resentment, but also expectations.

Speaker 2: 38:54

Yeah, and I think maybe that's a good way to word it It's, it's there's still. we still have a place for them in our lives, but there are really some, maybe some strong boundaries and like you, kind of lose expectations a little bit.

Speaker 1: 39:13

I don't. before I was so angry that she couldn't be a mother to me that I needed, and now I'm like well, i don't need you to be that anymore because I can do that myself, but I'm not angry at you anymore and so because of that, i'm. she is in my children's life. She's never gonna be that mom that I needed, right, and I'm okay with that.

Speaker 2: 39:41

But you know, you went through what you did. I went through what I did because of all of the shit that we've gone through. Yeah, i'm not saying it's a blessing because it wasn't, because it was fucking traumatic. Yeah, but we are here now, yeah, and we give that to our children. But we also give that to other people, yeah, because we didn't get it ourselves. And so, even with you know, relatives who have reached out to you, they see you in that light. They, because they are, they haven't found that light. Yet You are the light. Yeah, you just got to let it. You can't let them take it from you.

Speaker 1: 40:22

I think that that's like the, but they see your light. There's a lot of anger there.

Speaker 1: 40:25

There's even with both of us, like why do we have to be the ones who have to do this work? And I think I see it different now because I was just gonna say that, the way that I see it, where I am now in the very beginning, there was so much anger towards a lot of people in my life who were hurting me and having no accountability and no remorse. Now, where I am, i feel extremely empowered and grateful that I'm the one doing the work, because it means that I'm strong enough and capable enough. And I see them very differently because I'm like they are strong enough, they just don't know it.

Speaker 2: 41:06

Yeah, yeah, you know how we always talked about how we are the black sheep of our family, because we were the ones who spoke out against the abuse and the toxicity. Yeah, and then you sent me that thing where it was like we're the rainbow sheep, because it is. it's like we're the ones who are right. Hello, If you're watching us, we look, we're neon today. We're neon and rainbow, But we are the ones who broke it. We are, we are the generational trauma breakers which is cycle breakers. Crazy.

Speaker 1: 41:46

So now it feels incredibly empowering, yeah, but we had to go through that dark like I hate this. This is a lot of work. Why do? why? does it sit on me? And I think that that's a normal part of healing You have to sit with those feelings. I think a lot of people come out of this and start feeling this anger that they've maybe suppressed for a very long time.

Speaker 2: 42:11

But I'm glad that we got to be the ones to break it, because now we're here, yeah, and we're helping other people just by sharing our truth, yeah. So the second to last point I have is or we have, is, integration. It's so important. Again, leigh Ann, i have met with Dr Shealy with you know journeys that we've done and kind of sat with him on what our experience was and then how we're going to take that experience and integrate it into our lives.

Speaker 1: 42:51

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 42:53

Anything else you want to elaborate on that?

Speaker 1: 42:56

I think integration comes. I think that there's a lot of different ways to integrate And I think a lot of it comes from talking to other people. Sometimes I learn through other people going through this journey about myself. How many times have we done that Like I sat and had a conversation and been like, oh my God, i'm going through that right now, holy shit. And then you give a different perspective, or not just you, like, just a friend in general who's going through something, and I can relate their experience to mine and I learned something new from it.

Speaker 2: 43:30

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 43:31

And I think that's a big part of healing too is sell this Tick tock, i mean thing on CNN Let's talk about, like how to know if you're healing, and one of them was you can see yourself and a little in everyone. You can see a little bit of yourself and everyone. So, no matter what the situation is, if I'm talking to somebody and they're going through something, i can probably see something in my life that relates to what they're going through.

Speaker 2: 43:59

And I think, too, that goes back to like finding your community, because you know, since our friendship has blossomed so much in this healing space, you and I have a lot of parallels, so many But I think it's because both you and I come from similar backgrounds And we're both doing the work to heal ourselves, and so sometimes there are things out there that are tests or obstacles, But you and I seem to go through things, and that's why it's so important to have those people to help you maybe see a different perspective or help you work through it.

Speaker 1: 44:47

I didn't say this and the one that we were talking about before. But, like the willing to grieve and be angry, i think another thing is willing to lose some people, and we talked about that a little bit. But I had to cut some people out of my life And that was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do in friendships, because usually, you know, i don't know in your case, but in my case, anytime a friendship ended it was because of something that happened that ended the friendship. And in these situations nothing happened. It was just I was starting to see things very differently And I just started to realize that I was growing and they weren't I was going to say you were evolving and they were maybe in the friendship before you guys both.

Speaker 1: 45:38

Oh, we related so much related trauma bonded And then there was a lot of stuck Yeah, like both parties and in the friendships were stuck Yeah, and when I became unstuck And I just wanted to help them, yeah, and, but they didn't want to help themselves. And I think we should do an episode on that one time, because that's one of the hardest things is like having to let go of those relationships and not just letting go of them, but how to let go. Oh, that's a good idea.

Speaker 2: 46:11

I remember literally.

Speaker 1: 46:13

Googling one time, like how to break up with a friend when they didn't do anything wrong, because I'd never had to do that before.

Speaker 2: 46:23

Yeah, and it's, it's. I've lost some people and then some people are friendship just dynamic changed, yeah, and that's also another hard thing to explain to somebody, where you don't necessarily want to cut them off and stop being friends with them, and especially people who you've grown up with or have had a very long friendship with. They have these expectations of you that the friendship and relationship should be like what it always has been, and I think it's okay for things to shift and things to change, but it's, it's. It's really hard to navigate that because, again, it's, it's not personal.

Speaker 2: 47:14

We've just grown into different humans and that's okay, but we, you know, don't really maybe bond with like things to talk about or you know, and so I just it's one of those things where if I see him can be fine. I just know we're maybe gonna have some surface conversations?

Speaker 1: 47:34

Well, because I think they connect more to the old versions of us. Yeah, and they have a very hard time connecting to who we are now and where we are in our lives now.

Speaker 2: 47:45

And how do you explain that to somebody without being confrontational and also without sounding like a martyr?

Speaker 1: 47:52

Yeah, it's very difficult.

Speaker 2: 47:54

Yeah, so you should definitely do an episode.

Speaker 1: 47:56

I want to do an episode on that because I think that comes up a lot in some of the people that we guide?

Speaker 2: 48:01

Yes, for sure. Alright, the last thing educate yourself. Yes, please. So you know. Before Leah and I did this, you know, and when Leah guided me, she sent me documentaries to watch, articles to read, podcasts to listen to. There's YouTube, there's Google. Don't just go by what we say or what somebody else says. Do your own research. We get so many messages and we get so many comments on our social media, where people, i think, take what we say But they're missing a lot of the context to what we say, and I think it's really really, really, really important for you to do your own research So you have an understanding. You know, if you do a journey and you do it with a guide, you have a little bit of an understanding of what appropriate dosages, how to set an intention. Yes, you know your guide should talk to you about all that stuff, but you also have to educate yourself.

Speaker 1: 49:07

Well, that's all on somebody else. Accountability and responsibility Yes, like it's your responsibility. God, i sound so cheesy when I'm saying this, but like, as, like a journeyer, yeah, as someone who's about to go on this journey, it's your responsibility to look into what you're about to do. Right, it's not on. This is so wild, because how many times this just happened recently And again, i've had this happen several times to friends where they are taking an edible for the first time like a weed gummy, not knowing how much they're taking, and this just happened. Like last week It happened to me And then they're like Oh, i'm never doing that again. Like it's like you are blaming the edible for your bad experience. But you didn't have any, you didn't take any responsibility in the fact that you had no idea what you were doing, how much you were taking and the people that you were around when you did it. So it's like you're lacking the accountability here.

Speaker 2: 50:14

Well, it's like again, and all this is to me, i feel, like the easiest thing to understand. You go rip 20 shots of alcohol and you get super sick. That's on you.

Speaker 2: 50:26

So, alcohol is super toxic, it's just itself in general. But it's the same thing in the sense that the first time I took an edible, well, i take it back. The second time, somebody just gave me a chocobar and I was like, oh, okay, sure I took it. I didn't feel anything, i didn't take enough. So he gave that bar to me. And the second time I took way more And I was literally laying in bed and I'm like Tony.

Speaker 2: 50:52

I feel like I don't have arms and legs. And he's like I swear to God, they're there, shut the fuck up and go to sleep. And I was like I swear to God, i do not have arms and legs. I'm so fucked up right now I feel like everything around me has just gotten amputated. But that's on me, that's on you, that is on, 100% on me. So it's like you know the story about somebody I know who goes to a bar in Thailand, is drinking these mushroom drinks and has no knowledge about the mushrooms. That wasn't the mushrooms, that was you, boo. Yeah, that was you. You're doing drugs very irresponsibly and not safely Like that. That again it causes can cause more harm than good. That's why it's important to educate yourself.

Speaker 1: 51:40

So this fucking full circle moment right now, where you said I was sending you podcasts, and now like we're that podcast for a lot of people? But I was like you know, i'm a rabbit hole researcher. I go down so many fucking rabbit holes. I literally had a Google doc that I sent you That was like here's all the shows that I watched and here's all the books that I read and here's all the websites and here's all the podcasts. Like here you go. So I I don't want to say I made it easy for you, but like you kind of did, but I did not, you did it.

Speaker 1: 52:20

That information I'm not. it was available to me for free, all of it. I had to go down the rabbit holes to find it, but it's out there and there's research and there's documentaries for you to find and it is your responsibility to know what you're about to get yourself into and to do the research.

Speaker 2: 52:40

Well, and I used to be that person. I was somebody who hated on people who smoked weed, hated on them and I was super judgmental. And again it's what got ingrained into me since I was a fucking young child. But it's like what, you know, dell said on our podcast. I was being super ignorant. Who am I to judge and be a hater on someone when I don't even know what the fuck I'm talking about? I know nothing about this substance except for what got fed to me. So critically thinking is important, yes, you know, and there's been this comment too where people are like well, like they are bad. That's like literally like what we got taught. It's a schedule and substance And I'm like, yeah, but like I understand that you learned that in 1996, but things are different. Things are different And so like don't just take what your mom and dad told you when you were seven and actually like, read about it now and you may change your mind about something Right. And it goes, i guess, to into like less judging, more curiosity.

Speaker 1: 53:46

Yes, I love that.

Speaker 2: 53:49

Because, like who, who was I to judge? I should have, if I didn't understand it, i should have gotten more curious and questioned it a little bit better. But I think that's kind of the world that we live in now. Yeah, it's easy to do. I just so, so easy. And I've, with this journey, have become a lot more curious and then, you know, really realized like okay, so yes, i got taught that, but that wasn't right. What else is not right?

Speaker 1: 54:16

Right. I feel like that's what. that's literally. How I got here in the first place is like I started smoking weed for anxiety and then I was like hold up, and that's why this works for this. What else is bad for us that isn't bad for us?

Speaker 2: 54:31

That's why I think weed is a gateway drug.

Speaker 1: 54:34

What you said, but not in the way. It's not the drug that's going to lead you to heroin. It's the drug that's going to open your mind a little bit and peak your curiosity, because you're like hold on if this is helping me, Right?

Speaker 2: 54:47

What else is out there that they told me was so bad?

Speaker 1: 54:50

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 54:51

Because it's a big rabbit hole. Oh my.

Speaker 1: 54:54

God, it's a big one.

Speaker 2: 54:55

And you've, like I was never, i'm not, i'm still not really I'll do research, but like you've gotten me into this space of like what the fuck is life? Everything is wrong.

Speaker 1: 55:10

Everything we were taught is backwards.

Speaker 2: 55:12

Everything we were taught was backwards.

Speaker 1: 55:13

You may not go down the rabbit holes, but I go down them for you.

Speaker 2: 55:16

You kind of do.

Speaker 1: 55:18

So there you go. So that's our last one Do your research, and we will, in the next few episodes, do one about what we did to do the research. So we will help you go down those rabbit holes, because one of the things I have realized in the past three years is not everybody is like me, but that's your gift, and not everybody goes down the rabbit holes.

Speaker 1: 55:42

I used to get really irritated when people would ask me things when I'm like you can Google it And I'm like you're right, not everybody does what I do.

Speaker 2: 55:51

And if everybody was like you?

Speaker 1: 55:52

I soak up information that is you know I'm interested in And yeah, i retain that information very well.

Speaker 2: 56:01

If everyone did what you did, we wouldn't be here. So think of it like that.

Speaker 1: 56:08

I don't think I realized not everybody did what I did, Yeah, which is like my husband had to be like Leah, not everyone goes down fucking rabbit holes. Rabbit holes scare a lot of people And I'm like, don't fucking scare me.

Speaker 2: 56:23

It's not that they scare me, i'm just kind of I don't know.

Speaker 1: 56:30

Yeah, maybe fear isn't the right word. I just think it's fear, sure.

Speaker 2: 56:34

But I'm not necessarily fearful, I'm just. I'm open to a lot of different things.

Speaker 1: 56:38

Yeah, yeah, and I fixate on things.

Speaker 2: 56:44

I think that that's what it is for me, which is interesting because that's like a ADHD thing.

Speaker 1: 56:49

Yeah, we've talked about that before. Anyways, I don't know if I am or not, but you know, I definitely am, but I don't know. If it's working for me, then I'll take it. Yeah, that's how we're here, so all right, which, by the way, this is an hour long, it's fine, we'll get better, hopefully. Maybe. If not, you know what Like if you guys are bored of us, you know too bad. And for our listeners, our VIP listeners, we'll see, we'll hear you.

Speaker 2: 57:22

We'll start over again. We are sober.

Speaker 1: 57:29

We're sober. swear to God, we will talk to you. What is wrong with me? I've been on vacation too long. I've been on a trip too long. We'll see you on the other side, oh my.

Speaker 2: 57:41

God Bye. What the hell We'll talk? We'll uh, what the fuck.

Speaker 1: 57:54

What's our tagline?

Speaker 2: 57:55

again, what is our podcast name? I can't remember. Talk to you later.

Speaker 1: 58:00

Talk to you later. See you on the flip side.

Speaker 2: 58:09

See you on the flippity flop.