Our last episode of 2023! Ever found yourself exhausted after a social obligation, despite not touching a drop of alcohol? We're unpacking an 'energy hangover' this week, along with the intricacies of setting boundaries and self-care during the hustle and bustle of the holiday season. We take you on a journey through our personal struggles and triumphs, from navigating challenging family dynamics to the empowering act of crafting our own festive traditions. Join us for heartfelt discussions on how to maintain balance, the necessity of a supportive partner, and the strength we discover when we prioritize mental health and needs over external expectations.
Holidays can amplify everyday anxieties and test the progress of our personal growth, but they also offer a chance to listen to our bodies and heed the signals they send us. We don't just talk about the struggle; we share actionable advice on how to embody self-awareness and confront your feelings with grace. We also share valuable insights on the safe use of substances like ketamine, underlining the importance of guidance during such experiences for both therapeutic potential and harm reduction.
In this episode, laughter and vulnerability intersect as we explore the challenge of self-learning and the wisdom gained from letting those we love make their own mistakes. We dive into personal anecdotes about panic attacks, the healing power of psychedelics, and what it means to embody peace amidst chaos. Our conversation is a candid blend of humor and wisdom that we hope will resonate with anyone looking to navigate the holiday season with a sense of self-discovery and emotional resilience.
Colors
Use code OTHERSIDE15 for 15% off of our favorite mushroom gummies!
Our Website:
https://linktr.ee/seeyouontheothersidepodcast
Our last episode of 2023! Ever found yourself exhausted after a social obligation, despite not touching a drop of alcohol? We're unpacking an 'energy hangover' this week, along with the intricacies of setting boundaries and self-care during the hustle and bustle of the holiday season. We take you on a journey through our personal struggles and triumphs, from navigating challenging family dynamics to the empowering act of crafting our own festive traditions. Join us for heartfelt discussions on how to maintain balance, the necessity of a supportive partner, and the strength we discover when we prioritize mental health and needs over external expectations.
Holidays can amplify everyday anxieties and test the progress of our personal growth, but they also offer a chance to listen to our bodies and heed the signals they send us. We don't just talk about the struggle; we share actionable advice on how to embody self-awareness and confront your feelings with grace. We also share valuable insights on the safe use of substances like ketamine, underlining the importance of guidance during such experiences for both therapeutic potential and harm reduction.
In this episode, laughter and vulnerability intersect as we explore the challenge of self-learning and the wisdom gained from letting those we love make their own mistakes. We dive into personal anecdotes about panic attacks, the healing power of psychedelics, and what it means to embody peace amidst chaos. Our conversation is a candid blend of humor and wisdom that we hope will resonate with anyone looking to navigate the holiday season with a sense of self-discovery and emotional resilience.
Colors
Use code OTHERSIDE15 for 15% off of our favorite mushroom gummies!
Our Website:
https://linktr.ee/seeyouontheothersidepodcast
It's been so long since I've done this. I don't like. How do I talk? How do I put headphones on? When was the last?
Speaker 2:time we did this.
Speaker 1:It's been over a month, oh, in like six weeks. Honestly, time has Time flies when you're busy as fuck.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I truly believe that we have really not done much relaxing, even though we no. But it's nice to have something off the plate for a little bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah. We've just removed something off the plate. Yeah, hi guys, hello Hello.
Speaker 2:We've missed you all.
Speaker 1:I've missed you, I've missed you Haven't seen much of you.
Speaker 2:You know just been busy Dill dallying around.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just twiddling my thumbs, taking naps all day.
Speaker 2:No, I know, I wish, I wish. Can we talk about how we're hungover today?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Like I bet you guys never would have thought we would say this.
Speaker 2:When I say hungover, we did not drink any alcohol last night.
Speaker 1:We just went somewhere and we stayed out Till 11 o'clock and we're old and I'm just tired and I feel hungover even though, yeah, Well, the event was like we went to a comedy show which Was so funny, Amazing by Shane Moss, who is like really big in the psychedelic space. He's a comedian, he has like specials and you know. Anyway, he did a comedy show last night in Louisville and it started at eight o'clock and we were like it's past my bedtime. Yeah, I'm gonna be so much I need a nap. During the day I drank a Red Bull on the way because I knew I wasn't gonna last.
Speaker 2:Wow, okay, yeah, well, and I microdosed and so I like during the show, I couldn't help it, but I kept yawning.
Speaker 1:I'm sure that there were a lot of people in the show that was yawning, I'm sure yeah.
Speaker 2:I kept yawning, oh, but it was. Yeah, we didn't get.
Speaker 1:We didn't leave till 11 and this morning I was like I am struggling and we did nothing thing. Yeah, we left when it was over. Can you imagine?
Speaker 2:drinking.
Speaker 1:God, no, like, ugh. I think it's more of like an energy hangover.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know and I wasn't around anybody last night who, like, sucked the life out of me, but I feel like people that happens when I'm around, people who suck the life out of me, like I get peopled out.
Speaker 2:Well, and also I just get peopled out when, like, if I go to the mall, I'm not talking to anybody at the mall yeah, I'm not going to be at Christmas shopping but you leave and you're like so exhausted because there's just so many people and that's just you cannot tell me you can't feel the energy of like a crowded room?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, yeah, I used to love shopping and now I'm like online only. I will do anything to avoid the malls or Target right now, especially right now during the holidays fuck that shit. But yeah, last night I think it's just more of like an energy hangover and like I haven't gotten ready in like six weeks. I haven't put makeup on, I haven't had to get dressed, I haven't had to present myself, you know, yeah.
Speaker 1:That sounds weird but no, it doesn't Okay. All right, I get it. I mean, I've gone to a few Christmas parties and had to like do things up like that, but yeah, it's, we're both struggling today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So we're tired, anyways, but hope you all are hanging in there this holiday season Taking care of yourselves and taking care of yourself, and that is something that Leah and I have always struggled with. And it's still busy. Even though we are, you know, have been taking this break, there's still a lot of stuff going on and it is still busy and it is still stressful.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and we kind of wanted to come back on here because we left and I think we owe you guys, like a closing out episode, but also like to let you know what we're doing and why we're doing it and we've talked about it before a little bit like about taking this break, but I think everyone feels the rush during the holidays, like everyone does, and I think that really prioritizing your health, your mental health, your needs, is extremely important, more important during this time of year than any time of year. But I think so many people struggle with that, because it's the season of giving and it's the season of hanging out with people you haven't seen in years, and it's the season of, like, being around family that you haven't been around, and so there has to be this balance of remembering that, like you also still have to take care of yourself. And how do you do that in a season where nothing is about you?
Speaker 2:It's really hard. What is that quote? If you think you're enlightened, then go home and spend time with your family.
Speaker 1:I haven't seen that, maybe like on a meme or something.
Speaker 2:I don't know, but it's so fucking true. It's so true. Like you think like, yeah, you think you're like all good and whatnot and then you go spend time with and I'm not talking about like my kids or anything like that, but like the people who raised you. Yeah, that might be a different story, right, and that is the truth.
Speaker 1:And obviously during this time, that is a lot of what you're doing Well, and I just realized something in one of our last episodes with Sam Powers. He was saying like there's a reason like this rage is happening now it's because my window of tolerance has gotten so much smaller. And I do think that when you are the person who is healing and doing all of these things for yourself, you can. You're like, oh, I'm going to go do this and I'm so healed and I'll be so much less triggered wrong. You have to work almost extra, like you're working overtime, double time, just to make sure that those triggers aren't like sending you spiraling because your window of tolerance is so much smaller, so like everything is like triggering to you. Have you noticed that? Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And it's the. It has been this constant battle with me to be like do I say something? Is it worth it? Is it worth it? Do I let it go? That's who they are, that's where, that's where they're at in life. That's, that's, that's all that they're going to get me. Yeah, like they're here and again.
Speaker 2:This is not in a right, they're not doing the work, so yeah, it's not in a condescending way, meaning I'm better than you but I don't, like, I don't want to drop down to you and you're not in the place where you're going to. You're going to meet me where I'm at Right. You can only mean you know, you only know what you know, and if you're not doing the work, then right, but you. But you know. Being in those environments, you are much more aware of, maybe the things that they are doing or saying where it stems from. So it's, it is this like it's a battle.
Speaker 1:It's a battle.
Speaker 2:Yes, so yeah, it's better sweet in that way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're exactly right. I've been seeing all these videos circulating on like Instagram, like reels and TikToks and stuff that are like talking about family systems and family dynamics, and especially around the holidays. So I think that that's kind of what we need to talk about, like how to take care of yourself in the hall during the holidays and what you can do, because I do realize that not everybody can remove themselves from their family situations. But it was talking about how, like you know, everybody goes and let's say, like there's one person in your family that everyone caters to, because if that person's in a bad mood, then it's everything's going to go south. So everyone's walking on eggshells and catering to this person because they don't want to rock the boat, because if this person gets pissed off, then the entire family is like you know family dinners right.
Speaker 1:I have that in my family. I think everyone kind of does, and when you're the black sheep of the family, it's me, you it's. It's very hard to do what everyone else does. So in some of these videos are like let's say you know, everyone knows that grandpa is a ticking time bomb. He makes rude comments, he comments on your body weight, he makes inappropriate joke Not everybody's grandpa, I'm not saying this about everybody's grandpa, let's just say that. But like let's insert weird creepy uncle. Yeah, this is. It's just an example.
Speaker 1:But it just seems to be the people who are the most immature as far as, like, their emotional intelligence goes, are the people who are the most explosive, and those are the people that everybody is like walking around making sure they please Think about that Like. So what is that saying to your children or your children's children? Like, we make sure no one steps on this person and pisses him off, because if he makes an, if he makes like an inappropriate joke or comments on your weight and it hurts your feelings, that's just how he is. Don't say anything, don't bring it up, don't call him out.
Speaker 2:So how do you recommend then Because a lot of us can relate to that how do you recommend then going about that when everyone else is like, oh, just you know, just let it go, just you know, don't say anything. People are not trying to rock the boat, but you see it for what it is. How do you deal, oh God? So I have an answer.
Speaker 1:You do have an answer. I kind of have an answer and I but I also recognize that this answer is going is not the easy route. So my kids don't really have like that type of situation. So I'm going to put myself in this situation like where they're having to be around a family member that makes inappropriate comments or you know is is making, let's say, like racist jokes, and you know, nobody else in the family is racist, but everybody's just like.
Speaker 1:You know, my recommendation if you're on this journey of healing, and especially if your kids are around, is you hold boundaries and you can say to this person that was really inappropriate what you said. Or you can tell your kids you don't have to hug them if you don't want to and you can say no, thank you. And if they give you any shit for that, you come and you get me and you can go to this person and say they don't want to hug you and I respect what my child wants. I don't want to force them to hug some like little things like that. You know I also recognize that that would probably cause some issues and then you're going to get labeled the bad guy because you couldn't just suck it up and deal with it.
Speaker 1:Well, and you might go down this rabbit hole of starting more things, because you actually were the one that spoke up, yeah, and then you're going to be the one ostracized and you're going to be the one everybody's saying like see, now you ruined Christmas, like why did you have to say something? And I don't think that's fair. But I also, what I would do and this is where it's difficult is I would stop going. That's what I would do and I would say that, like, if you guys can't respect these boundaries and if you're going to make me feel bad because I don't want to do these things and I'm just going to not come anymore. And that's not the case for everybody's family situation. So that's why I like I do have advice, but my advice is not probably the easiest.
Speaker 2:Fuck, because that was my advice. That was yes, because I grew up with this person. This person was my, is my sibling, so holidays were always incredibly hard it had. It was always a thing where, if this person gets mad, everyone's day is ruined and you're going to get the wrath, you're going to get, you know, a grudge held on you. It's not fun to be on the bad side of this person.
Speaker 2:Everything happened, gosh, probably over a decade ago during Christmas and where I got ostracized because I'm the black sheep and when I went to G magician and did show this video to have a scar gern van mi to paam라 main去. That was when I was like, okay, so you're not gonna go anymore. And I decided then pre-healed, pre-healing, christine that I didn't wanna be in that space. You don't wanna put yourself in that situation. So I have relationships with other people in my family, but now what happens is I just see them at different times that aren't the holidays, because I know that I'm not gonna get advocated for. I know that and I know it's gonna hurt my feelings.
Speaker 2:I know that person, they're gonna get it passed. I know that they're gonna do things to be vindictive or hateful or manipulative or conniving, whatever, and I just don't wanna be around it and I don't want to be around people who are enabling it. So for me, I love them, but I will see them at different times. That isn't Christmas, because it's just. I'm not gonna add another thing on my bell. And for me, home is Tony, my partner and my kids. That's home. So that's who I'm gonna spend the holidays with, and then anything outside of that, if it works, it works. But that specific situation I am just not gonna put myself in because it's abusive and I'm not gonna do it, especially on fucking Christmas. So, but I know people struggle with that because I think with the holidays comes a feeling of obligation, absolutely, and I've heard it, you've heard it where people are like, oh, I don't wanna do this and I'm so stressed, and blah, blah, blah, and then I will, or you will put it back like well, you don't have to do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they're like no, but I do. And it's not just family members, it's going crazy, above and beyond for your children.
Speaker 2:Yeah, going crazy above and beyond to host people and have your home be pristine and have you make all the things and you're really exhausting yourself and for me, I understand that people may feel obligated to do it, but just because you feel obligated to do it doesn't mean that you have to do it. Now there are some things that sure, like you're gonna get your kids gifts and all of that stuff, but there are maybe ways to compromise with yourself to lighten the load. There will still be. We still have stressful things going on. We still have busy schedules around this time, but we stopped recording because it was just another thing off our plate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I've had something going on almost every single weekend since we've stopped Same, and that's what I mean. Like, what can I take off my plate that is going to be beneficial to me and my family and is going to not break the whole fucking world apart? Like, I have two kids' birthdays. We did one last weekend, one the weekend before, so it's like that has to happen, Right. Right, I can't not do my kids' birthday parties, Right? But I wanna give an example of what you were talking about. I have a couple of examples.
Speaker 1:So a couple of years ago we haven't really talked about this a lot, but I started having issues with my in-laws and we're no contact with them now. My husband is as well, but a couple of years ago I didn't wanna be around them and so I was like, yeah, I'm not going, and I think that this for me, it started with mushrooms, but really it started when COVID happened and it gave people an excuse to stay home. And I kind of wanna ask you, if this happened with you during COVID and you couldn't be around your family, if that was the best Christmas you ever had, because you were just with you and your family and you didn't have to go everywhere else where you felt obligated to go sit with that for a minute and decide whether that's like what's maybe best for you, and it's okay if it's gonna piss people off.
Speaker 1:So yeah, a couple of years ago I was like I don't feel comfortable being over there. There's tension. I get anxious when there's a situation where I don't feel comfortable. I'm not gonna spend my Christmas like that. You guys can go, I'm staying home. So did they go? They did.
Speaker 1:Was that hard? Two years ago? It was hard. I really struggled with it because I was home alone on Christmas day. Yeah, it was really fucking hard.
Speaker 1:And so after that I was like, yeah, that's not happening again. Like I don't know, I don't know. Like I tried to make it to where I'm like okay, I'm gonna use this as time to relax on Christmas. Like they spent Christmas morning here and then they went over there. So it wasn't like I didn't get to open my presents with the kids and have Christmas morning, but then the rest of the day I was alone and growing up, the way I grew up, I was like no, that's never happening again. I'm not gonna like, let someone else have my kids on Christmas day and me be alone. Like it'd be different if, like, my husband was also here with me maybe, but still, I'm like they're my fucking kids. I wanna be with my kids on Christmas day. So it didn't happen after that. But there was another situation I wanted to bring up because I have an old client who was kind of she's kind of in the same situation with her in-laws and struggles and they hate her Just like mine hated me.
Speaker 2:God, all these in-laws stories are wild.
Speaker 1:Yes, maybe we'll get into that next season. Like in-laws in general and like the fucking shit. She was like you know, and I have to go to my in-laws and they hate me anyway and I just hate being over there. And I was like then, don't go. And she was like, oh, I can't do that. Like why not? She's like I don't wanna be upset with me.
Speaker 2:They already hate you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they already don't like you, Like if they already hate you, like just make something up the first time and then like just say you have a headache, like don't go. And your husband knows the situation. Or, or or or or Okay.
Speaker 2:Okay, so I don't have this in-law situation, so, but this is just my perspective and again I'm reiterating, I don't have this. Tony's parents have passed and if they were alive I think they would have been the best ever. I truly mean that, yeah, and I think that if in-laws are mean and disrespectful and they make it known and make you feel like they hate you, that is on your partners. That is your partner's responsibility 100% To hold boundaries with his parents because, at the end of the day, you should be each other's number one priority, 100%. So I don't think that her responsibility, I think that his responsibility to make sure that if she is there, she is treated with respect and she is welcomed, and if she's not, then they are not coming.
Speaker 1:And he needs to be on board with that.
Speaker 2:Oh, he needs to be the one. Advocating for her Leading it.
Speaker 1:So that's where we also struggled, because my husband was all like this is pre-sober husband and he was very much like I'm not getting involved in that. This is between you and my mom, you deal with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that's and it hit us against each other. Well, and we spent a long time in therapy and did a lot of fucking psychedelics and got sober for us to realize no, we're the team. You have to be my partner in this. You have to be my teammate in this. It can't be me telling your mom these things. You have to be that person because it's your mother. Yeah, and if the roles were reversed, I would be doing that for you, I would be advocating for you. But it took a long time for us to get there, which is why we're in no contact now, because they could not. They respected nothing. He said about his boundaries with me.
Speaker 1:Right and he was like I don't even want to give the full. I'm not giving the full scope, but let's just say, for example, he would say if you call my wife a bitch, I'm not coming over, and they would call me a bitch, and that's how disrespectful it was. So he finally was just like all right, if you guys can't even respect these simple things, like we're not coming over anymore. Yeah, but he had to be the one to do it Like, otherwise it was me just looking like the fucking bitch. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this wasn't with a parent, but we were going to have and I don't want to give too many details, so it's very obvious about who this is about. We were going to have an event and someone wanted to come, and that person, even though they didn't know me and weren't willing to know me, they wanted to come, but it was our event, ok, and so Tony called said person. I just told her who it was.
Speaker 1:I already knew.
Speaker 2:Tony called said person and said we are open to you coming, but if you come you have to treat Christine with respect and this could be a fresh start in a new direction. But I'm putting the ball in your court that you are going to agree to this and it is very black and white. If you don't agree to this, then you are not invited, you are not welcome, and then this person proceeds to be like fuck. No, I'm not treating her with any respect. I'm pretty sure she called me a stupid fucking millennial, which I'm like, thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you, thanks, boomer, yes, thank you, boomer, yeah.
Speaker 2:And he's like OK, just so you know, this is what I said. You're not willing to compromise, so you are not able to come to this event that you really want to come to, because you can't give somebody who you don't know any type of respect. And she was like fuck that bitch. And he's like all right, no.
Speaker 1:It's interesting to me that the people that are the most toxic have no room for compromise, and the people who are willing and trying to make it work are trying to give these like, ok, you can come, but but that's why they're toxic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I'm thinking about this, Because they're not willing to work with people, they're not willing to take accountability, they're not willing to apologize, they're not willing to look at their own behavior and their own patterns Stay toxic.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So last year before my husband went completely no contact. They wanted to see our kids on Christmas. He was like you're not seeing them on Christmas Day and they threw an absolute fit that bitch is ruined. And Christmas then he's like I'm not going to leave my wife at home alone again on Christmas Day. You can see them the next day or on Christmas Eve, but I'm not leaving Leah alone on Christmas Day without our children. It's not happening.
Speaker 1:And tried to make compromises. She was like OK, how about this? You guys can come over here on Christmas. I'll let you bring the kids' gifts here at our house and you can stay for an hour and Leah will go somewhere else. No, no, we're not doing that. No, we want them over here. I don't know what to tell you then. It's like there's no room for compromise, it's their way or they're not doing anything. And that's almost very telling of like. I thought you wanted to see the kids. I thought you wanted this to be about this person, about the child, not about the drama. But you're making it about the drama.
Speaker 2:It's weird.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's not weird.
Speaker 2:It's patterned and it's pretty obvious. It's one of those things where you kind of know what they're going to do. You're hoping for the best, but through knowing them and their behavior, it's pretty typical. Yeah, but do you ever listen to Mel Robbins' show? He always talks about the let them theory.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like you, do you. So for me, I'm the same way as you. Christmas is me and my family, and that's what it is Like. It's us at home We've got some matching PJs Same. That is my happy space and everything else comes second. But if they're mad, let them. Let them be Like. If they're going to throw a fit, let them. If they're going to talk bad about you, let them. They're going to trash your name, let them Like. You can't control that.
Speaker 2:But for me and Christmas is especially hard for us because Tony's mom passed on Christmas Day. So we are trying to change the narrative this year, especially with talking with Jenny Shanks, the medium, and Tony's mom came through and said you guys, stop being so sad on Christmas, because I have my own childhood stuff and then he lost his mother on Christmas Day. So it's like Now you're trying to really Well, now we have a four-year-old and so we're really excited because he's excited and we're also excited because we now know she's there and she's like listen, stop being such sad fuckers. She didn't say that. Stop being so sad and I'm there with you. So continue to celebrate it and do things in honor of me and in memory of me instead of just what is being sad going to do, and so now that's what we're doing, but I couldn't think of being anywhere else, because it makes somebody else happy. I want to be at home in my pajamas with my family opening gifts, and that's it Well, and that's the thing too.
Speaker 1:For 15 years of our relationship, we did the holidays the way his mother wanted to do the holidays. We had no traditions of our own, and so now there's this part of me. So, even though the situation is different, christmas for me has always been really difficult, because of family too. But also I feel like I'm just now in a place where I'm doing this my way and I'm making our own traditions and my core family is the most important part of this and I will invite people. We have aunts and uncles coming and great grandparents, but if I don't feel comfortable with you in my house or you're a person who causes conflict or I feel anxious around you, you're not coming to my house on Christmas Day, tony, always says and you guys can say this too we are his core five.
Speaker 2:And he said if my core five is not running well, if one of my kids is struggling with something, if you're struggling, I'm working to fix that. That is my priority. That is what I care about. Anything outside of that that comes after my core five. But my core five if they're running good, then I'm good. So if one of us feels uncomfortable around somebody, we make sure the pack is good. Yeah, I like that Pack stays good, and if it's not good, then we're working to try to fix it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think another thing that really needs to be practiced more during the holidays is saying no, yeah, and I know that that's really hard for people, especially if you're a people pleaser like recovering people pleaser. I think the people who you have in your life, who are very understanding, are going to get it. You know, like last night, one of the girls canceled on us last minute and we're like we fucking get it. You know, yeah, totally, totally Like, understandable yeah. But then take a look at the friend groups that you feel like you have to say yes to, like why do you feel like you have to say yes and if you say no, are they going to give you shit about it? I don't do well under pressure.
Speaker 2:Neither do I we both. Ever we both learned. We have open root chakras. Yes, is that what it?
Speaker 1:is Absolutely OK.
Speaker 2:Yes, so yeah.
Speaker 1:Our root chakras are fucking wide open. I don't do well with pressure from other people. So if you're pressuring me to say yes to something, I fucking freeze up and I'm like I don't want to do this, I don't want to do it. I am absolutely not going to say yes because you're pressuring me. If anything, I'm going to avoid the fuck out of you, and so if anything feels like pressure to me, I say no or I say nothing at all. That sounds terrible. But if it feels like, oh, there's no pressure here, like I'm more than likely going to say yes, Because then I know that if something happens last minute, I'm not going to feel guilty if I don't go. So that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you always say that I know I have to stop that. Yeah, no, and I've had friends like that where they don't necessarily take into consideration how busy you are or the fact that I just like being at home. So there is like, come on, just come on, just this one time, just this one time. Like, oh, just for a little bit, Like, oh, you'll feel better once you come out, and they don't respect those boundaries. Yeah, I'm not really that great. I may still be friends with people like that, but the friendship has changed, or I'm just not friends with them.
Speaker 1:That just reminded me of the year. You probably know who I'm talking about when I say this. But I used to have a friend that was very much a pressurer and she was so good at it but she prided herself on it Because it was great for her job. She was a great sales. Like she didn't do sales but she could talk anybody into doing anything and she prided herself on that. But then I started to see it in our friendship Like there was a weekend, like she wanted to go out and it was my husband's birthday and he had already had plans and I was staying home with the kids.
Speaker 1:He was going to a football game. Yes, she just whispered the name to me and I was like no, you know, I'm staying home with the kids, it's Jason's birthday weekend. He's got plans, he's got football game and all this stuff. And she was like well, what if I get to a sitter? No, you know, if I get a sitter, then I'm going to go with him. Like I don't want to go do something separate because it's his birthday weekend. And then she's like well, just think about it and let me know. And I'm like I literally said no. I just said no, but whatever.
Speaker 2:Sometimes people like that are really hard because they're doing it in a way that it's not like it sounds helpful.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, well, and that's the thing. So, like, I said no, and eventually you're like OK, fine, right, so that's why I ended up ghosting people and I just am like there's nothing. I don't know how I can say no more clear than I already have. And now you're just making me feel bad. You're continuing to give me solutions to something I don't want a solution to. So, yeah, like the day before, did you put any more thought into going out with me tomorrow night? And I'm like no, I didn't, because I'm doing this. Well, I can still get a sitter. And I'm like, even if you did, like I don't want to do my hair and I don't want to, I don't know what I'm going to wear and I don't like going out, I'll help you pick. You know, everything had a solution to it. And I'm like that works. I can see how that works in your job. This does not work for me.
Speaker 1:And a friendship. I hate that pressure. You're trying to be helpful, but if I want it here's the thing. You know, that thing is like if he wanted to, he would. If I wanted to, if I wanted to do this, I would. I would make it happen. Yeah, I don't want to do it. That's a good point. Didn't even think about that till just now. Yeah, damn yeah. So don't pressure your friends either, like into doing things around the holidays. It's already like a stressful time for everybody.
Speaker 2:And I think too that's another great point is sometimes we get so consumed with ourselves and the stuff we're going through, the stuff we're dealing with, that we don't necessarily always realize that, even though you may not know it, other people are going through maybe very similar things or having a rough time, or are very stressed out or just want to break as often as they can during a really busy time of year. Like we don't know everyone's story, I don't know all of your story. You still don't know all of my story, right, so back off.
Speaker 1:No, but seriously though you might be like, I need to be around this friend and I need to get out of my house because everything in my house is chaos and I need to get out and I need to escape for a while, but maybe that friend really enjoys being home at that moment, because they were fighting last weekend and now they're finally good and she doesn't want to leave.
Speaker 2:Even last night I wanted to go, but I was like, damn OK, this thing starts at 8. Usually I put my son to bed at 8 and then I go to bed and then I put an eye mask on and then I wash off and then I roll my face and then I do, and you're bonnet.
Speaker 2:And then I have my heatless curls and then my bonnet and my eye mask, and then I watch my shows and then I talk about my day with Tony and I almost decompress. And then I have a castor oil pack on my stomach and I'm I should take a picture. I know I need a visual. And then I have my grandma pajamas on and like it's a thing like my bedtime routine is sacred.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Now, like I can't do that, did you compromise? I did Totally Right, because I was like, ok, you like don't ever do anything on the weekday. This will be funny. Like, go and have a good time. Yeah, you're OK with one night of a castor oil pack.
Speaker 1:Right, right, it's OK. I did wash my face and it's like home, though, because I'm like I remember back in the day like I was home at like 11 or 11, 30. Like first off, that never happened. It was like home at like 2, 3, 4 am. But whatever, like I'm like I'm still doing my nighttime routine, it's just 11 30 and I'm exhausted.
Speaker 2:But even when I was like like heavily into my drinking, I could be throwing up so drunk I don't know my name. I will still brush my teeth and I will still wash my face and I won't remember because it's so habit Shut up.
Speaker 1:That's impressive, I'm not going to lie. That's super fucking impressive.
Speaker 2:There have been times where I've been throwing up and you could ask me my name and I don't know my name. Wow, but I did brush my teeth and I did wash my face. That's how OCD I am with hygiene. That's super fucking impressive.
Speaker 1:That's never happened for me.
Speaker 2:I don't know if it's a Not a drunk night, I don't know if it's a flex, but it's.
Speaker 1:I'd wake up the next day with like my eyelashes like stuck in my hair, like on my cheeks somewhere and covered in bruises that I didn't know where it came from. Yeah, that's so bad. Ok, there's a couple of things I wanted to say too. So I was listening to this podcast and it gave this description of, like, what embody. Well, it didn't give the description of what embodiment was, but it was kind of saying, like, giving tips on, like, how to get out of your head and into your body. And I'm listening to this and I'm like, holy shit, it all makes sense. Ok, we've talked about embodiment before, like, and really like, as a society, I think we're so disembodied, like. We're so like none of us are used to listening to what our body is telling us, like, so like side effects, you know, sometimes you don't feel them or you don't notice them until they're too far, you know, until you have them so deep that you're like, how the fuck did that? You know what I mean. Well, and even so, many people.
Speaker 2:This is a big one. So many people come and they'll say to me. They'll say I am so anxious.
Speaker 1:You knew you were going to say that that's.
Speaker 2:That's, I think, the number one thing I get. I'm so anxious, and my response always now, first thing is well, I think that's your body's, that your body is telling you something I don't care. Instead of suppressing it, maybe sit with it to see it's. Maybe there's something that you need to change in your life. Maybe there's some habits that you need to incorporate into your life. Maybe you're not getting enough sleep, maybe you're drinking too much, maybe you're not exercising or eating the right things, but also, maybe you're not working through something that you need to work through, absolutely, but that is the number one thing I get told, and what people wanna do is they just want it to go away, and it's to me.
Speaker 2:I think anxiety is a great way of saying hey.
Speaker 1:Something's wrong here. You need to change it up. Yeah, no, you're exactly right.
Speaker 1:It's not bad. Well, what's interesting is before I hate saying like before I started healing, because I'm just gonna say pre-mushroom Leah and after-mushroom Leah, because pre-mushroom Leah was still healing yeah, you know, going to therapy, doing things, I'm still doing things. Being around my mother-in-law always made me anxious and I thought it was because she was an anxious person and I thought I was like picking up on her energy. And what I didn't realize until after-mushrooms was like oh my God, she makes me anxious because she's controlling and she has all these patterns and she is toxic and she's manipulative and I didn't realize it before. So I was constantly around this person who drove my anxiety through the roof.
Speaker 2:And sometimes that's the bad thing about healing. Is you really? It's obviously good for you, but the hard part is like you're like, oh shit, I'm like seeing this person for who they are.
Speaker 1:That's a really hard part about healing. And especially like I love that. Having this conversation with another friend the other day, I was like and the really hard part is still not wanting to hurt that person's feelings. That's a very difficult part is noticing these patterns in someone but still not wanting to hurt that person. That's hard. But where were we going with that? The anxiety thing.
Speaker 2:So you started to feel anxiety and you thought it was just because she was anxious.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and she was like always anxious. She's always. I'm always anxious and depressed when she is the type of person who can't sit. Still, that's how anxious they are, and so I just thought that I was picking up on her energy.
Speaker 2:Okay, but I shake my leg too. Hers was like Okay, okay, I see what you're saying, but I'm always like-.
Speaker 1:Which I have now learned is A either a side effect of anxiety or a side effect of anxiety medications. And so when that's like breaking through and they're like, oh, it's your anxiety acting up, they'll like up your meds because they think that, like your leg shaking is your anxiety. But no, it's a side effect of the anxiety medication as well. Didn't know that there's a word for it, or ADHD, because this is like the whole time. You're not like what I-.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, okay, Because I do do that, but-.
Speaker 1:No, yeah, I don't-.
Speaker 2:Do you remember? We got that comment on YouTube.
Speaker 1:Your leg, your foot, shaking so like my foot shakes and some weirdo Always it's the same person every time I know it's like dash cam zero, whatever. Can you shake your leg faster? Can you shake your foot faster Next time? Can you take your socks off, so dash cam.
Speaker 2:Here you go. You know what I'm just gonna do this for you.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, I'm not doing that. I'm just kidding Shit. So about the anxiety like this is. I know we're all in a tanger. I'll get to the my Embodiment thing in a second, but like another episode podcast episode that I've been listening to is like this Huberman, andrew Huberman and Paul Conti, Dr Paul Conti. It's like a four part series and it's like 24 hours long Not really, but like every episode is like fucking two to three hours.
Speaker 1:It's a long fucking series. And he has even said, like show me someone who says they don't have anxiety and I'll show you someone who's manic. Everyone has anxiety, because anxiety is your body telling you something is off and something needs to change. Whether that be your job, your friends, your eating habits, your exercise habits, something is off. And that think about this. Like why did we not have anxiety when we were little kids? Some of us probably did, because of their environments. You know what I mean? Like we probably did. We just didn't know that that's what it was called. We didn't know what that felt like.
Speaker 2:I just would get tummy aches.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, like. So there are physical symptoms of anxiety, but not everybody's symptoms are the same, so some people might shake, but some people might. Jason, when he realized he had anxiety, had a hard time breathing, like he had shortness of breath. My anxiety just makes me feel like I'm frozen, you know. So it's interesting that you say that, because that is a lot of people are like, yeah, but like, how do you deal with this anxiety? And I'm like, I sit with it and I try to understand it and it doesn't make it easier because the anxiety is still there, but it almost is like fuck. Now I realize I have to have a conversation with this person and that's going to like really fucking suck, you know. But then I, that's why it's there. I'm not trying to get rid of the anxiety, I'm trying to understand it and why it's showing up in certain situations.
Speaker 2:And your body is. It's working with you, it's trying to protect you. So why do we ignore things and suppress things and medicate ourselves when our body is actually trying to help us? I've never. It's just it's the world we live in. But you know, and we did not get taught those things.
Speaker 2:So learning to and so I understand, like learning to sit with those feelings, they can be very uncomfortable and it's there's somebody in my life you know who I'm talking about who started to feel a little bit of anxiety and panic and it just got brought up this week. I don't know what to do. I still have anxiety. It's not going away and I keep trying to calmly say, okay, I think you need to take a look at your life and there may be some things that you need to change. But they're not ready to hear that yet. They just want it to go away.
Speaker 2:So she's about ready to go on a little journey, not a mushroom journey, but just a life journey. Oh no, yeah, just to learn, kind of learn the like. Well, yeah, like she's young and she's gonna have to kind of learn through learning herself and making mistakes, and I'm just, you know, sitting there, knowing and you know, trying to give these little breadcrumbs of help and she's not reaching and she's not taking the breadcrumbs. So like I, just have to sit back and just just watch.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's so hard to do, though it's the hardest. It's so hard to do.
Speaker 2:It's the hardest because you're, you want to be of service and help, because they're young and they don't know. But also, at the end of the day, like you know, when you become an adult, you have to take those matters into your own hands, and I know that sometimes the things that we say are not necessarily the easy route. They can be challenging. Sitting with yourself, that is hard, feeling is hard, doing the work is hard. But I'll take this hard because with this hard comes peace over chaos, dysfunction, not knowing myself, still feeling terrible, that's hard too. So this is so lame and cliche, but it's like it's that meme. That's like working out is hard, but like a sedentary lifestyle is harder. Like eating well is hard but like not nourishing.
Speaker 2:I say the same shit with like healing and working on yourself and learning to sit with yourself.
Speaker 1:That shit Like divorce is hard, marriage is also hard, right, like all these things. Yeah, it's all hard, it's all hard.
Speaker 2:There's no easy, but I'm going to choose the hard that brings me more peace and makes me feel closer with myself than the latter, so yeah, it's like if you think avoiding hard conversations is hard, imagine what it's going to be like when all that resentment builds up and yeah, that's why, that's really fucking hard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's why that's all so hard, a big mouth. But it's interesting too, because it's like you try so hard to like suppress and avoid and numb that feeling of anxiety. What I realized is sometimes even just doing the self-inquiry and like figuring out why it's there feels good, cause you're like oh my God, finally I understand why it's there Doesn't make it easier. After that there's a piece of it that feels like okay, now I understand it, now I have to do this hard thing, now I have to have this hard conversation, or now I realize I have to quit my job. But it also feels like now there's an answer and now I feel like there's a light at the end of the tunnel and that feels so much better than the dark, like flailing your arms in the dark, cause you have no idea why it's there.
Speaker 2:Well, and I think about. I've always been somebody who I struggled with anxiety and panic attacks. I've struggled with anxiety since I was a little kid, and before I didn't know where things stemmed from. I had no idea why I was anxious. I didn't know what was triggering it. When I had a panic attack, they came. I felt like they were coming out of nowhere. They weren't, though.
Speaker 1:But I was so disconnected from myself.
Speaker 2:I was not able, like I was not in tune with myself and how I was feeling. Now, I still do get anxious in certain situations, but now it's like usually, when I get anxious, I'm like, oh, I'm around the wrong people, I'm around the wrong people, right, right.
Speaker 2:I know exactly why I feel anxious right now or yeah, or this is a conversation I am not particularly enjoyed, so you know I don't like it. Now I'm like, oh okay, yeah, I know where this is coming from. I don't. I have not had a panic attack in years because I am much more in tune with my body, that I know when I'm starting to feel anxious and if there are things that I need to remove or add or whatever, then I work on doing that. So and it doesn't get to a point where then I get a panic attack because it's this build up, build up, build up, build up, build up. And then I like wake up at three o'clock in the morning and I feel like I'm having a heart attack.
Speaker 1:I just had a thought.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:And it's gonna go into like the whole embodiment thing that I wanna talk about. You know how we have always said like doing mushrooms feels like home and it feels like a reset. Yeah, it almost feels like a literal practice of embodiment, like for the first time you understand what it means to be in your body.
Speaker 2:That's such a good point because mushrooms can be, like again, very, very transparent. They can be incredibly challenging, because feelings come up, memories come up that you can't avoid, shadows come up you don't know what's gonna come up and but the things that need to come up come up because they need to be felt. So, you know, in most of my journeys I'm crying, I'm really going through a hard time and I'm feeling all of these things.
Speaker 1:That you have otherwise suppressed or ignored, or forgotten about.
Speaker 2:And the best thing about this medicine, the best advice, is to let yourself surrender to the medicine and so Surrender to the feelings. And so when you surrender to the medicine, you are surrendering to the feelings, and then it's almost like there's this lesson or epiphany, or like this release, because you've actually felt the things that you needed to feel. And then it's like you come out of it and you're like, yeah, Light bulb, okay, okay, I'm having like a moment right now.
Speaker 1:So I was with someone several weeks ago. We were talking about like how she feels like around the holidays. She like is catering to everyone else and doesn't know is like abandoning her own needs, and she's aware of that. And I'm talking to her about my one of my journeys where I felt what it felt like to me To abandon myself. Oh, and I also felt what it felt like to not abandon myself. And that was the first time. Which journey was that?
Speaker 1:The self love one like my second one where I was just like, holy shit, I've been abandoning myself more than anybody else has and I have these major abandoned wounds. So I'm telling it to her and I'm just like you know, I do that, I did the same thing, and she's like, yeah, but I don't need to do mushrooms to know that I'm doing this to myself. I know I'm doing it to myself and I'm having this realization. As you're saying this, I kind of like got a little bit defensive because I was like why didn't need to do mushrooms to know that either? Like I knew that, like I was abandoning myself.
Speaker 2:You can intellectualize it all day long.
Speaker 1:But I didn't know what it felt like to really fucking choose myself until I chose myself in this trip. It's like I embodied that feeling. So, coming out of that trip, anything that felt like it wasn't my choosing me, I wasn't doing it Because, for the first time, I had embodied that feeling. Yeah, you know what I mean. Yeah, there's a difference. But that's also why it's hard to explain to people who don't know and who have never done it, because you do sound like you're like saying what's on a pillow, like choose yourself, but a lot of, I think we all intellectualize our trauma or our wounds were like oh I do this because of this and this happened to me.
Speaker 1:Right, and I don't need to do mushrooms to do this.
Speaker 2:I don't need to know mushrooms to understand that. And again you don't Right. There are multiple avenues where you can, like we do, embodiment circles. You know therapy, mushrooms isn't the only avenue, but you do have to embody it, not intellectualize it. Yeah, Because your body still needs to feel those things.
Speaker 1:So this practice of embodiment that I was listening to, the way I heard this, like everything clicked for me because you're right, we've done these embodiment circles and it's not that like I've never like experienced what it feels like to be in my body. But this is, I think, a practice for anybody who doesn't know what that feels like. Okay, very simple way to do it.
Speaker 1:I tend to spiral, I think we all fucking do, and I'm not ashamed to say that it still happens and it's really hard for me to pull myself out of those spirals. I think I need a lot of co regulation. I think we all do, but, like, sometimes it's easier said than done, you know. So one of the things that it was talking about was like doing this practice of embodiment, and if you're watching, like I'm just I'm sitting like in crisscross applesauce and when you feel yourself starting to spiral or your thoughts are like racing and you don't know how to get out of it, think of your body as a tree, okay. So use this tree analogy.
Speaker 1:Your butt is what is grounded, that's like the roots. Imagine your butt and your like the roots coming out of that and that's like your root chakra and going into the ground, into the earth, into the center of the earth, like that's the thing. That's like keeping you grounded, okay. Your head is, and your thoughts are all. The leaves on the trees, okay, and the branches on the trees. Now, look at a tree in the way that it is in wind, right.
Speaker 1:These are just swaying and moving and they're all over the place and there's, like you know, it looks like the tree could topple over at any second if you're looking at the top of the tree, but then, like, you focus down at the bottom and if that root is like strong and sturdy trees not going anywhere, it is like firmly planted. So this practice of embodiment, it's really just like working from your head, where the leaves and the tree branches are just swaying in the wind, and like imagining your thoughts coming back to your body, like okay, and then working your way down, and then working your way like feel it in your heart Okay, all right, I'm here, this is how I'm feeling. Feel it in your stomach Okay, I'm here, and this is how I'm feeling. And then feel it in your bottom and like, okay, those thoughts aren't real. They're real, those feelings are real, very, very real, but they are not what's like keeping you sane and keeping you whole Because that spiraling, none of those fucking things happen, the things that I'm thinking about happening like none of those things happen.
Speaker 1:They're just like fucking leaves getting tossed around in the wind, like it's not where I am in that moment. And to practice full embodiment, it's like oh my God, I'm sitting in my living room and I'm safe and, you know, my husband is here and he is not trying to like start a fight and he's trying to help me in this situation and all right, okay, I'm good, that's really fucking hard to do, yeah. But that whole like tree analogy like really fucking like got to me and I was like, oh my God, that's what it feels like to practice embodiment, to know that, like you are firmly planted and you are safe and the wind is not going to knock you over.
Speaker 2:I love that you explained it that way, because I'm going straight to said person. Oh, when she complains about her anxiety and not knowing what to do, and just using that analogy, because I think that's a great way to explain that Well and you've always heard the thing like don't make a decision, like you know, in the middle of turmoil.
Speaker 1:So like if your anxiety is running super high, like you're not supposed to be like making life decisions anyway. So like if you can get to a place where you're firmly planted, you know you feel grounded, then you can sit with yourself and make a rational decision and a rational reaction to what's going on around you. Because when your like head is up here, like you're not thinking clearly, no, you're not reacting clearly. Well, here's a perfect example.
Speaker 2:You during your allureal phase, or probably any woman, yes, pre-during, sometimes post cycle. Yeah, yeah, I like I. I randomly freaked out on Tony about something so dumb and I was like I'm leaving and I like leave and slam the door and he's like I like. And he calmly said I know you're on your period, but you can't talk to me that way. And I read like I had to like kind of leave and cool off because in the moment I was not hearing that Right.
Speaker 2:I just went like zero to like 160 real fucking quick. And then I was able to kind of sit with myself for a little bit and be alone and luckily I had like this long drive. And then I came home and immediately was like I am sorry, I am crazy, I am so sorry. Like I like thought about it, I was like wow, you acted way out of pocket, like so out of pocket, but that stuff does happen on your hormones.
Speaker 1:But, again.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to go and make this life changing decision while I'm losing my marbles because I'm on my period.
Speaker 1:I wish that men knew just a fraction of what that feels like. They don't fucking know. You know, I'll have like this week. When I started my period like it's Sunday I was like super fucking emotional. I was crying over really stupid shit, literally. And then I started my period the next day and I was like, oh, how many women can relate?
Speaker 2:to that. Were you not fucking crazy? Right when you like, cry, you get incredibly emotional, you get angry, you get, like you know, riled up about something, and then you get your period.
Speaker 1:You're like oh, I'm not bipolar, that's me. Oh, that makes sense. Now I get it. I cried Sunday because L had a project do. My seven year old had a project do for school the next day and we both Jason printed out a photo that he took from his phone and it was not that great.
Speaker 2:Like you know, it was a per.
Speaker 1:It was a per, it was just not a good photo and so I reprinted it and I straightened it and I cropped it and I printed it out for her and she was like I'm going to do this one because it says love at the bottom of it. And I was like she picked the one that Jason did half-assed. Jason half-assed this photo. And she picked that one and I like when it, I was like I'm going to make it perfect and I'm going to crop it and it's going to be perfect. And I cried and I was like it's fine, but literally I'm like I'm trying really hard not to cry because I look like a crazy person right now. L has no idea what's going on, but I don't take birth control anymore, so like I don't know when it's coming. So tip for Jason, yeah.
Speaker 2:Tony tracks my cycle.
Speaker 1:I've tried to get him to track it. He is. I've sent him the app and everything.
Speaker 2:He, yeah, he tracks my cycle. So there have been times where he's like, oh my gosh, every woman in my house is this is not good pray for me, but but he'll. He'll say like I will randomly cry and he'll be like well, you're you're, you're expected to get your period in about two days, so I, I.
Speaker 1:I understand. Well, do you know, monday, when it finally came, when my period came, I literally went to him and I was like high five, we made it through the weekend without fighting. And we had a birthday party with eight seven-year-olds at my house and I was literally high-fiving him because we did it. I was like we made it through my Ludi O'Fayne. He's like awesome, he's like barely. It's funny how wild and in sync we are, especially when we're not on birth control. How much more you feel it. Do you feel that? Because when I was on birth control it felt like it was kind of under control, but without it I'm like I'm a fucking psycho.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was all I had about the embodiment, but I feel like with a conscious masculine man they are aware. Well and they're better. They're worth a roller coaster and they're much better at, kind of like, riding the wave.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I don't know they're extremely grounded, Jason's way more grounded than I am, oh god 100%.
Speaker 2:I'm fucking nuts. Sometimes it's like, can you like lift off just once? No, he lifts off plenty.
Speaker 1:But when I am like lifting off, he's very grounded and I'm like how? Yeah, anyway, it's funny, do we have anything else to talk about? Well, where are we at? Where are we at an hour? Yeah, I did want to kind of talk about the Matthew Perry thing. Oh gosh, yeah, I so forgot about that one.
Speaker 1:Ok, only because I do think that it's important that we reiterate that we are not here to talk anybody into doing anything and we are big on harm reduction and safety.
Speaker 1:That's why we have this podcast and I think maybe we should do more harm reduction and safety, because I do think a lot of people hear what we're talking about and they go out and they try to do these things alone or with someone who doesn't really know what to do, and we strongly advise against that. And then this ketamine situation. I was a little bit worried that it's very unfortunate and it's very fucking sad, and I think that headlines sometimes get ahold of this stuff and they are blaming it on ketamine. And I've seen a lot of headlines that have done a really good job of talking about the good things about ketamine and how the way that he did it was not safe. Yeah, knowing what I know about ketamine and the way that it makes you feel. That would be, to me, one of the worst things that you could possibly do is do ketamine alone and in a hot tub. It's a disassociative. You are absolutely not aware of your surroundings like that, and if you take too much you're going to be in a sedative state.
Speaker 2:Well and I remember when I took you to your first ketamine session, yeah, and Henry, who is the therapist that was working with you, which, again, if you are going to do ketamine, please, work with the therapist, please.
Speaker 1:And if you were, in Louisville, henry Lucas at Louisville Health and Healing, and I think they have a few more therapists there who are now trained in it as well. It's very important.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's very, very, very important. And I just remember he said this. I think he was like OK, you have to go to the bathroom, go to the bathroom now. And I think you went to the bathroom and he said if you were to try to stand up, you would face plant. Yeah, you would essentially be paralyzed in that sense. And so you're sitting Because you're out of your body, right, it's disassociative. And so you're sitting in a chair with an eye mask and you're not moving for that hour of time. So to then be alone and to then go into a body of water, that's so incredibly unsafe and it's you know.
Speaker 1:Like. You can be aware that you're in that water, but your body is so frozen there's nothing you can do about it, you can't move. Yeah, so I was very aware that I was in a chair in a room and I was aware of where exactly I was. I was aware that you and Henry were sitting across from me, but I couldn't move my fucking pinky, yeah.
Speaker 2:If I were to go and tickle you and slap you across the face and mess with you a little bit, you wouldn't be able to defend yourself. No.
Speaker 1:But it was weird because I could feel my hands. I could feel that I'm here and I know that my hand is here. I'm aware of my body and I'm aware of my hands, but I'm not able to move them. I'm completely disconnected from my body.
Speaker 2:It's wild, but we have had a lot of people message us and they're like, hey, I'm going to do three grams and I'm doing it alone, or they just want to come and they just are like, ok, yeah.
Speaker 1:Or you guys have to. Yeah, my friend's done them before. They'll know how to sit with me. Yeah, that.
Speaker 2:Or see everything you guys are doing. I think I'm going to do five grams. I want to do that, I want to do that. That's nothing. We are not promoting that. We do not encourage that. We continue to stress that you need to learn about the medicine yourself, you need to do your own research, you need to be able to advocate for yourself Because, again, these medicines are powerful whether you go the underground route or the clinical route, not everyone is safe. So don't have this blind trust in anyone, Because I feel like we're this Switzerland where we get messages about people who do retreats, people who have ketamine clinics like facilitate mushrooms, clinical underground, whatever. We get messages about good experiences, but we also get messages about bad.
Speaker 1:What if we focus on that next year? Yeah, and not focus on it? Not put a focus on it, but I think it would be. I will reach out. But I think we know someone who has done that who was like I was inspired by your podcast and I just did three grams by myself and I'm not going to tell her story, but I think after that she was like I should have had someone with me and it wasn't a bad experience, but it could have gone south very quickly and I think she realized that afterwards.
Speaker 1:And it's like you think you can do it alone. And I think there's a lot of people who are like well, I've gone this far in life alone, I don't need help, and no, there's a reason that we don't recommend you do it alone. And I know that there are some people out there who are like the best way to do it is alone, and I'm like that's great that you're there, but for a beginner, fuck no. And even where I am, I wouldn't do it alone. Now, same, that's exactly what I said. I was like I am familiar with the medicine enough and I still wouldn't do it alone. I don't need a guide anymore, but I always make sure that there is someone with me, always Someone who's safe, someone. I know someone it's usually my husband, but you know what I mean. I would never do it with someone who didn't know what to do, and I think we should maybe bring to light some of the dark moments next year.
Speaker 2:Well, but here's the thing, I guess, Because there's a dark to everything. I know, and I guess what I'm trying to say is there are retreats facilitators where we have heard bad things, whether it be they made there was some type of sexual misconduct, which I hate hearing that so much, or there wasn't proper integration or therapy, or they did no conversations about that. Yeah, they did ketamine, and it was with a nurse, and then they went home, so there was no therapist to work things out with.
Speaker 1:And then they're reaching out to us. What do you mean? Intention setting, what does integration mean? So it's like you.
Speaker 2:But there has to be some self-accountability. I am not going to go drink a fifth of liquor because I know what's going to happen. So I'm not going to go if I've never done mushrooms. Go take a handful of mushrooms because I don't know what's going to happen. That's something that I need to learn. You have to advocate for yourself.
Speaker 2:So there is somebody who has had not good experiences a few different times and there's a part of me that wants to say, ok, but it's a little bit on you, because if you're not working, if you went and did ketamine and there wasn't a therapist there, those are things that you should know. Yeah, you should learn, and we do our best to try to provide that education and information and I guess we can do more next season and talk. I wish we could say who and what and if people do, especially who are in the Louisville area, if you do message us then we can give you inside on yes or no, if we think that's a good avenue to go down and give you some feedback, but that part's so hard.
Speaker 1:It really is. It's tricky, it's really tricky. But we have one person in particular who reached out and said this is what my experience was like and it sounds nothing like yours. And as soon as she said that I was like that's so many red flags and I don't trust that at all. Some things off. So it is nice to have people that you can ask those types of questions about, and I also think next year we do need to maybe talk about ketamine a little bit more and the differences, Because I do think that it kind of teeters that line of Western and non-traditional a little bit.
Speaker 2:It really does.
Speaker 1:Because there are the spravados and the nasal sprays and the people who do it daily and it just gives them some relief from their anxiety for a bit, but it's not permanent and it's not doing lasting changes, and so I think people tend to stick to that and I think some people are weirded out that I never finished my treatments, that I haven't finished my treatments yet. You know what I mean and I'm like, but I haven't needed to, and that concept is so foreign to people who are like well, what do you mean? You're OK.
Speaker 2:We're just so conditioned to take a pill, yeah, and then go away or do this thing or keep doing these things, because that's what it's going to fix me, instead of having the mindset of you are your own medicine. Those are just little tools in your toolbox that can help you.
Speaker 1:It is definitely a tool in my toolbox now, but I know what it's for and I know where it lies. It's kind of like what Shane Moss was saying last night. The comedian. When he was talking about ketamine for a minute he was like it's like a little stepping stone. I don't remember how he said it. Do you remember how he was saying it? What he was saying, I was like oh my god. Yes, it's not like this life-changing epiphany thing. He was like, but it's enough to pull you out of a dark hole temporarily. And that's what it was for me.
Speaker 2:But for me and again I haven't done ketamine, so I can't speak on ketamine, but for me mushrooms, it was like it clicked.
Speaker 1:That's kind of what he was saying too. He was like you want to go see some weird shit and go somewhere really fucking cool for an hour due ketamine. If you want to learn a really deep, long lasting life lesson mushrooms, but do you think that's?
Speaker 2:because mushrooms are actually from Earth and so there's this more like a natural sacredness to it, Possibly. But I don't know that it makes ketamine bad either, but I think it's almost like it's more of this universal consciousness type thing, universal, spiritual, like you're. Like it's of the Earth, it's like Right, because it is literally of the Earth, like you are, it's almost like you take it and you're connecting with the universe and yourself and realizing, like Do you know?
Speaker 1:mushrooms are more closely related to humans than they are to plants In that wild. Yeah, and they have their own language and shit. I mean, so do plants, but you would think that a mushroom would be more closely related to a plant than a human, but they're more related to us After watching Fantastic Fungi, which, if you have not watched it, please do.
Speaker 2:It's so incredibly. That's a must Informative if you're wanting to learn more about mushrooms. But how truly intelligent, yeah, this species is with like the mycelium network and how they like communicate, and they're everywhere, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Like I didn't. Even you can't step on the ground without stepping on some type of network. It's like their original worldwide web. Yeah, really, yeah, think about it, it's fucking wild. Ok, so we're still on break technically. We just wanted to say bye to you guys for a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yes, we're not coming back until February.
Speaker 1:February. Stay tuned. In the meantime, we do want to say we're showing up less on social media, which feels really nice, but then every now and then I'll get on there and there'll be a message that I haven't read and it's been like three days and I feel like I have to apologize because maybe that person's new to our platform and they don't know that we're taking a break.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So maybe we should put in our bio like on break until February. We should make a post, make a post.
Speaker 2:Easy peasy.
Speaker 1:Pin it to the top of the page. So we're on there sporadically. We're just quieter. We got a lot going on in our lives right now Taking a break.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:What else should we say? I don't know. We do have some really exciting news for when we come back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1:We've got so much whispering in this episode.
Speaker 2:They might have heard that, yes, we do Season three. We've got some hopefully awesome interviews. Yes, I think we will. Great content and some maybe cool partnership.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely Super cool, super fucking cool partnerships yeah.
Speaker 2:We're really excited.
Speaker 1:Ok, and I'll be 40 when we come back.
Speaker 2:Oh shit, yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1:The big four. You know I always joke and I always say I'm turning 29 and this is the first time ever. Even my aunt noticed it. She was just like, oh, you're embracing it and I'm like I think.
Speaker 2:I am, I think you should, I think you should.
Speaker 1:I don't think I've ever like I've always half-assed joked that I'm always forever 29. Like I'm always turning 29. And I'm like I keep saying I'm going to be 40 this year.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's wild yeah.
Speaker 2:Own it.
Speaker 1:Ok, All right To everybody listening. We'll see you when we get back. But also stay curious, be open. We'll see you on the other side.
Speaker 2:Bye, bye.